MCR247
Established Member
- Joined
- 7 Nov 2008
- Messages
- 10,290
Unfortunate for it to happen on the approach to New Street of all (most) stations!
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
BHM - disruption fire on train 10th July 26
- Thread starter MrWestern
- Start date
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
That's what I was told it was likely to be, no idea myself
Snow1964
Established Member
White smoke sounds like burning oil, possibly piston ring oil failure or head gasket failure, or if not in pistons, at valves or associated turbocharger
Black smoke suggests carbon deposits in the exhaust burnt, or got "dissolved" and loosened. (I am using non technical terms here, but lubricating oil is a light end component of crude oil and will thin heavy oil, allowing solid heavy carbon particles to be released)
Any type of train, be it diesel or electric, can develop faults that result in fire or smoke, I'm not sure why you're singling Voyagers out for this, they are one of the more reliable units on the network.
They may be, but there are a lot more reasons for a train with diesel engines under coaches to burn than there are for an EMU with a transformer per unit.
Hairyspotter
Member
Yeah, I mean all those EMUs with their single point of failure pantographs dragging down the wires are oh so reliable as well...
Fires on Voyagers and in particular the engine bays are rare events. On the whole they are a very mechanically reliable unit, albeit not especially fit for purpose capacity wise these days, but that isn't the fault of the TOC operating them either.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Higher tread brake pressures, either due to engines being isolated (pretty common these days) meaning the vehicle concerned reverts to tread brakes only as there is no dynamic brake function, or, as has been mentioned elsewhere, ACIC cock isolated on the brake frame which in effect isolated the dynamic brake and does the same.
Fires on Voyagers and in particular the engine bays are rare events. On the whole they are a very mechanically reliable unit, albeit not especially fit for purpose capacity wise these days, but that isn't the fault of the TOC operating them either.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Higher tread brake pressures, either due to engines being isolated (pretty common these days) meaning the vehicle concerned reverts to tread brakes only as there is no dynamic brake function, or, as has been mentioned elsewhere, ACIC cock isolated on the brake frame which in effect isolated the dynamic brake and does the same.
From what I saw/ heard it was spouting heavy smoke at White the rate of knots l.
Are you able to screenshot a still image or two of the 'best bits' and post that?
It's an vary rare event though, much rarer than and EMU pulling the wiring down.
You're just using this as a stick to beat Voyagers with.
In 50-plus years of rail travelling I have never been on a train that pulled the wires down (have been inconvenienced by it happening of course) but I have been on one train evacuated because of a fire... the Voyager in Wolves station. And that is even though we must have done thousands of miles on BR modernisation-plan DMUs.
Again, these are very rare events but the Voyagers are probably some of the hardest worked units on the network, things will occasionally go wrong, all units fail occasionally.
A prime example of confirmation bias.
I think we can just leave it, as above, with all units have the ability to do wrong. Not all units behave in the same way.
There are many more 'common' reasons for such units to disgrace themselves which don't make the headline feature 'Train catches fire, city station evacuated'.
It did on this occasion. Luck plays a part in avoiding such occasions while out there travelling.
I would never have expected to see what I did this morning and am still trying to piece together that actual reason for the event.
I once saw an aerial break in high wind and demolish the chimney stack, 20 years ago.
We didn't suddenly see restrictions or removals soon thereafter.
357
Established Member
- Joined
- 12 Nov 2018
- Messages
- 2,282
As I said earlier, Voyager brakes have a burning smell from high speed even if the dynamic brake is fully working on all coaches. It is a Voyager thing.
Hairyspotter
Member
357
Established Member
- Joined
- 12 Nov 2018
- Messages
- 2,282
Me too. I know if my dynamic brakes are working or not
citybus2500
Member
Indeed, I was on the platform waiting for this service. The entire platform was engulfed by the smoke as the train swept in.
Passengers on the train said smoke was visible shortly after leaving Wolverhampton.
It was possibly too late by the time the driver became aware, but given it was a "fire", pulling into a totally covered station under a shopping centre didn't seem ideal.
Got to Southampton 72 mins late on the replacement unit, so at least a free trip!
Hairyspotter
Member
Me too. I know if my dynamic brakes are working or not
Me too. I know if my dynamic brakes are working or not
Good.So you'll also know that even with all the ACICs in the normal position, the Dynamic Brake can sometimes drop out during braking, and that when this occurs the brakes on that vehicle go to the equivalent tread brake pressure. And that if this occurs on an MS vehicle you will get no indication in the cab because the desk gauge only shows the brake pressure on the vehicle you're sat in.
357
Established Member
- Joined
- 12 Nov 2018
- Messages
- 2,282
Yes, and my point still remains, the burning smell happens with or without the dynamic brake being active, normally at stations where you've slowed down from high speeds.
ac6000cw
Established Member
Re. the smell from very hot disc brakes - anyone old enough to have travelled on IC125/HSTs in the their early days got very familiar with it...
IIRC, BR eventually had to modify the aircon system to close the air intakes during braking, to minimise the smell permeating the passenger accommodation after heavy/high speed braking, as well as experimenting with alternative brake pad compositions.
IIRC, BR eventually had to modify the aircon system to close the air intakes during braking, to minimise the smell permeating the passenger accommodation after heavy/high speed braking, as well as experimenting with alternative brake pad compositions.
It could still be occasionally but briefly smelt many years later through heavy brake applications and about 10 years ago I was on an HST from Paddington when there was a full emergency brake application at Dolphin Jct resulting in a very strong brake smell reminiscent of the early days. (The cause of the stop was due to the train nearly hitting some trespassers on the track.)
Ridetherails
Member
Elecman
Established Member
Did that set the station fire alarms off?
I'd be concerned if it didn't!
Ridetherails
Member
Yeah full station evacuation.
TheTallOne
Member
I heard it was a broken oil pipe, leaking onto the engine.
If that were the case with a diesel car or van, it would likely end up running away and consuming all it's oil before seizing...
Quite the extensive data set you have there to launch your Voyager bashing with.
I’ve been in HSTs, pacers, first gen dmus and Tube trains that have failed. That may mean I’m very unlucky compared to you, or it may debunk your not so convincing stats that voyagers are more unreliable than every other fleet of trains since the first gen DMU.
TastyMaltesers
Member
Another Voyager has been smoking today, currently stuck at Charfield.
Is the heat getting to them? They are middle aged, overworked and stressed. Sound familiar anyone?
voyagerdude220
Established Member
- Joined
- 13 Oct 2005
- Messages
- 4,260
1V50 appears to have been stood for approximately 1hour 40 minutes and counting. I hope air con is working in all carriages.
On a 5-car 221 I caught from Birmingham New Street to Bristol Temple Meads last week, the Train Manager announced they were sorry for the lack of air conditioning in coach D and that he'd tried to reset it but he hadn't been able to fix the fault so it would only be able to be fixed at a depot.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Looks like they're doing a train to train evacuation judging by the 1Z99 showing adjacent to the failed 1V50 on Traksy at Charfield.
Last edited: