What would a dream future cross-country train be like?

ox_chap · 10 Jul 2026

Whilst leaving Oxford on an overcrowded cross-country train, I wondered what a future dream rolling stock provision would look like?

So, with money no barrier, how about (1) 10 coaches, loco-hauled with DVT the other end, (2) buffet car, (3) many seats lining up with the windows, (4) comfortable seats with lots of leg room, (5) discrete but useful electronic announcements, (6) highly reliable stock that can cope with all temperature ranges (and diversion capability if needed), (7) lighting that is not overbearing at night, (8) paper timetables on tables highlighting the views of points of signficance that will be passed, (9) nice internal decor away from the usual bland "everything white"

Curious what others think such a dream train might be like?

RailUK Forums

Nottingham59 · 10 Jul 2026

On time would be nice

D6130 · 10 Jul 2026

Something similar to the new Stadler tri-mode inter-city units that have just been ordered for the Dublin-Belfast 'Enterprise' service....but standard gauge of course!

Crithylum · 10 Jul 2026

I don’t understand why everyone here is so obsessed with obsolete loco hauled trains. My preference would be a level boarding battery bi-mode 730. (Obviously not a 730 but something with similar layout and interior). Maybe a bit more luggage storage. The 1/4 3/4 door arrangement would massively speed up dwell times.

If we have magic money tree, I would go for all 10 car trains, with 10 rows in the middle section, and 5 rows in each end section. Without infinite money, I would do a uniform 8 car layout, with 6+11+6 (3 more rows per carriage), minus luggage racks. Likely around ~600 seats per train (slightly more with 10 car), triple a current 4 car.

Transilien · 10 Jul 2026

ox_chap said:
(5) discrete but useful electronic announcements

It’s strange that cross country haven’t put them on their voyagers or turbostars. (I haven’t been on a refurbished one yet, but it’s still strange that XC have omitted them until recently)

Nottingham59 · 10 Jul 2026

Should be the same stock as every other 125mph mainline in the country. A consistent national fleet would save on crew training costs and allow units to be moved around the country at weekends or to cope with seasonal peaks.

Something like a 9-car 80x trimode. 650 seats. 25kV AC, two diesel gensets and up to 7 Turntide battery packs as used in the 802207 battery trial. 234m long, so able to fit in Paddington, Euston, St Pancras, Kings Cross etc. Maybe 10-car units with 25m carriage length.

A S Leib · 10 Jul 2026

Better level boarding.

172007 · 10 Jul 2026

A S Leib said:
Better level boarding.

Not pracrical. The XC network passes through so many parts of the country which for historical reasons had different platform rail interfaces. The only real solution is to rebuild nationaly nearly every paltform to a common standard and all new trains conform to that.

Nottingham59 said:
Should be the same stock as every other 125mph mainline in the country. A consistent national fleet would save on crew training costs and allow units to be moved around the country at weekends or to cope with seasonal peaks.

Something like a 9-car 80x trimode. 650 seats. 25kV AC, two diesel gensets and up to 7 Turntide battery packs as used in the 802207 battery trial. 234m long, so able to fit in Paddington, Euston, St Pancras, Kings Cross etc. Maybe 10-car units with 25m carriage length.

The 9 car 80x solution with ASDO* (80x can have shorter carriage lenghs as per East Midlands Trains) with Tri-Mode would be my dream solution that is realistic.

*Automatic Selective Door Opening.

William3000 · 11 Jul 2026

Nottingham59 said:
Should be the same stock as every other 125mph mainline in the country. A consistent national fleet would save on crew training costs and allow units to be moved around the country at weekends or to cope with seasonal peaks.

Something like a 9-car 80x trimode. 650 seats. 25kV AC, two diesel gensets and up to 7 Turntide battery packs as used in the 802207 battery trial. 234m long, so able to fit in Paddington, Euston, St Pancras, Kings Cross etc. Maybe 10-car units with 25m carriage length.

Some of the routes are slower than 125mph for the most part. Birmingham New Street to Stansted Airport has a max speed of 90-95mph with the exception of a short stretch of 125mph running north of Leicester station. Equally Cardiff to Birmingham tops out at 100mph. Given that I think demand is currently significantly supressed I would probably go for 9-car 125mph bi-mode units for the services currently run by Voyagers, and 6-car 100mph bi-mode units for the services currently run by Turbostars.

Bletchleyite · 11 Jul 2026

A UK bimode version of the Siemens Velaro D - the ICE - with that style of interior rather than the significantly downgraded Eurostar one.

HamworthyGoods · 11 Jul 2026

ox_chap said:
Whilst leaving Oxford on an overcrowded cross-country train, I wondered what a future dream rolling stock provision would look like?

So, with money no barrier, how about (1) 10 coaches, loco-hauled with DVT the other end, (2) buffet car, (3) many seats lining up with the windows, (4) comfortable seats with lots of leg room, (5) discrete but useful electronic announcements, (6) highly reliable stock that can cope with all temperature ranges (and diversion capability if needed), (7) lighting that is not overbearing at night, (8) paper timetables on tables highlighting the views of points of signficance that will be passed, (9) nice internal decor away from the usual bland "everything white"

Curious what others think such a dream train might be like?

Loco-hauled and highly reliable is an oxymoron these days: it introduces an unnecessary single point of failure (the locomotive) on services. There are no longer ‘spare’ locos dotted around the network to rescue failed trains.

I understand the comfort point behind much of your wish list here, but not the loco-hauled part?

Zomboid · 11 Jul 2026

If we're dreaming then let's start by electrifying the network so we don't have to mess around with diesel or any significant batteries (a small battery to simplify the AC/DC changeover at Basingstoke is ok).

Then a 200-220m long electric train with level boarding (or at least smaller steps where that's not practical), comfortable seats and adequate luggage capacity to hopefully put an end to the absurd fares that they charge these days. At least two standard class carriages fully unreserved. And yellow paint on the ends.

thenorthern · 11 Jul 2026

One that uses a network designed for Cross Country trains.

One thing to remember is that hourly CrossCountry trains on the network we currently have is a relatively new concept. Take the former Southampton to Newcastle trains, that network was built by Southern Railway, Great Western Railway, LMS and LNER. No one expected th3 services we have now back then.

Northumbriana · 11 Jul 2026

If we're truly dreaming, double deckers.

Nottingham59 · 11 Jul 2026

Maybe they should also be capable of running into Curzon St to handle the Birmingham-Manchester route via HS2.

There should be capacity on HS2 north of Birmingham. It's only 20km from Delta junction to Handsacre, and even HS2 trains won't get up to full speed on that section. The northern curve at Delta is limited to 170 kph, and HS2 trains take 38km to accelerate from 170kph to their top speed.

Harpo · 11 Jul 2026

I’d start back with the question ‘what is XC?’ At the moment it serves everything from short hop local traffic through regional to the longest daytime UK journeys.

I suspect IET is the eventual answer for IC work but worry that bean counters would prefer the awful 197s.

swt_passenger · 11 Jul 2026

ox_chap said:
Whilst leaving Oxford on an overcrowded cross-country train, I wondered what a future dream rolling stock provision would look like?

So, with money no barrier, how about (1) 10 coaches, loco-hauled with DVT the other end, (2) buffet car, (3) many seats lining up with the windows, (4) comfortable seats with lots of leg room, (5) discrete but useful electronic announcements, (6) highly reliable stock that can cope with all temperature ranges (and diversion capability if needed), (7) lighting that is not overbearing at night, (8) paper timetables on tables highlighting the views of points of signficance that will be passed, (9) nice internal decor away from the usual bland "everything white"

Curious what others think such a dream train might be like?

Probably an amalgam of the stock proposed in about two dozen fantastical threads over the years, all running as 6,7,8,9 or 10 car depending on personal guess, complicated calculations of fleet vehicle numbers, or the roll of the dice, and always running to Portsmouth, Poole, Brighton, Ramsgate, Liverpool, all shacks via Preston and Carlisle, and also to a one horse town of personal choice (probably where aging grandparents who don’t like travelling via London live).

[What I’m hinting at is that this subject has probably been covered more times than any other.]

Topological · 11 Jul 2026

Harpo said:
I’d start back with the question ‘what is XC?’ At the moment it serves everything from short hop local traffic through regional to the longest daytime UK journeys.

I suspect IET is the eventual answer for IC work but worry that bean counters would prefer the awful 197s.

A 5+5 - car 197 would be good, but could not do 125 so not the answer for most XC routes. They have the gangways so reduce the unit locked out issue.

I think that we are talking about IETs though. That is the most logical conclusion so that they can be rescued by / interwork with GWR* and LNER* at the ends of the route. Hopefully a better design without kitchens etc. But for the main XC routes the logical answer is the IET. They will just need staff to keep both halves open where 5+5 is used.

For the current turbostars then 5-car bimodes are better. Look at whatever comes with Churchill and/or the Northern 15x replacement.

mrcheek · 11 Jul 2026

Since this is a fantasy thread, lets just build some new HSTs, upgraded to modern crash-worthiness standards!

and with Valenta engines of course

supervc-10 · 11 Jul 2026

mrcheek said:
Since this is a fantasy thread, lets just build some new HSTs, upgraded to modern crash-worthiness standards!

and with Valenta engines of course

How about a Deltic for the ECML whilst we're at it? :lol:

On a more reasonable note, one that might actually be feasible in the real world cost wise - how about building some more 9-car 800s/802s for GWR and LNER, and cascading the 5-car 80X to Cross Country? Or expanding the CAF order to do the same?
I know XC absolutely deserves new build, but I also know how unlikely that is with the DfT in charge. And it seems that there's a lot less splitting/joining sets than previously expected on GWR and LNER (although happily corrected on that one!)

If we are thinking new build - then I think a 125mph unit with a layout similar to the 810s would be a great idea. Perhaps even just some 810s. The question is whether a 10-car 810 would fit on the XC network? If not - maybe a 9-car 810?

XC needs capacity above all else, IMO - and the Voyagers, whilst being great in a number of ways, are not exactly crowd busters.

Dr Hoo · 11 Jul 2026

Are we ever going to get away from the high churn en route and use of many services for short hops (Birmingham- Wolverhampton, Leeds-Wakefield, Bristol Parkway-Temple Meads and so on)?
Frankly, recognising this with 1/4+3/4 doors and good space for standing would be a big step forward. Yes, you’d still want some table bays, seat reservations, proper facilities for two trolleys and first class (on some if not all routes).
Such a general configuration could also be applicable for routes such as Waterloo-Exeter, TransPennine, ScotRail Inter7City and so on.
Not got any particular thoughts on how bicycle space, airport luggage and a mix of toilets might be best blended in to this.

Zomboid · 11 Jul 2026

Dr Hoo said:
Are we ever going to get away from the high churn en route and use of many services for short hops (Birmingham- Wolverhampton, Leeds-Wakefield, Bristol Parkway-Temple Meads and so on)?
Frankly, recognising this with 1/4+3/4 doors and good space for standing would be a big step forward. Yes, you’d still want some table bays, seat reservations, proper facilities for two trolleys and first class (on some if not all routes).
Such a general configuration could also be applicable for routes such as Waterloo-Exeter, TransPennine, ScotRail Inter7City and so on.
Not got any particular thoughts on how bicycle space, airport luggage and a mix of toilets might be best blended in to this.

The York route needs 125 mph trains, but the Manchester route doesn't. 110 would be adequate.

So being moderately realistic, the Bournemouth/ Bristol to Manchester trains could be operated by a 730-alike (bi modes since electrification to allow proper electric trains on those routes isn't likely). If they're 5 car units with gangways to make 10s, they could run in pairs on the Manchester routes, and singly on the Stansted/ Leicester etc runs.

Then get some pointy ended 125 mph units to run the York/ Leeds route, 200-220m long with proper intercity facilities. They'll have to handle some short hop traffic, but such is the railway these days.

positron · 11 Jul 2026

172007 said:
Not pracrical. The XC network passes through so many parts of the country which for historical reasons had different platform rail interfaces. The only real solution is to rebuild nationaly nearly every paltform to a common standard and all new trains conform to that.

This premise that level boarding is somehow impossible is so defeatist. There is a national common standard. There's no need to rebuild every platform, often if any changes are needed you just replace coping stones and perhaps lower or raise tracks. Curved platforms are largely solved by the gap fillers that come out.

Also we absolutely should be rebuilding every platform that doesn't match standards, ordering the wrong train height just because it also needs some platform work is incredibly stupid.

To answer the actual question I think the intercity cross country routes should all get a uniform 10 carriage train, with level boarding and a decent food offering. Tri-mode would make sense for maximum flexibility. I think cross-country actually needs more frequency not just longer trains though.

Zomboid · 11 Jul 2026

positron said:
This premise that level boarding is somehow impossible is so defeatist

I disagree with the notion that level boarding is impossible because some platforms don't meet the standard. Just build the train to the standard, and (at least in the short term) use ramps where necessary - though I suspect a lot of platforms will be fine.

Iskra · 11 Jul 2026

Probably just keep it simple and use the incoming Class 820 in 5, 7 and 9 carriage formations. This would mean they can run in 5/7/9/10 carriage formations and would potentially make it easier to re-jig carriages around in the future and also reduce the current issue of a second unit being locked out of use due to not enough crew for two trains joined together.

brad465 · 11 Jul 2026

To replace 170s I'd go for 110mph BEMUs that are a mix of 3 and 4-car and regularly form 7-8 car services through their core routes, especially to/from Stansted Airport and between Birmingham and Derby/Nottingham. As well as providing a huge capacity boost on these services, it would allow longer distance trains to run non-stop between Birmingham and Derby and skip Worcestershire Parkway.

Northumbriana · 11 Jul 2026

mrcheek said:
Since this is a fantasy thread, lets just build some new HSTs, upgraded to modern crash-worthiness standards!

and with Valenta engines of course

Ideally a new train that combines the comfort of the IC125s and original Eurostars.

yorksrob · 11 Jul 2026

A buffet car, similar to the old mk2 buffet first class carriages, but with a better selection of ale.

Also, bring back the attractive light blue, turquoise and yellow moquette.

HSTEd · 11 Jul 2026

Ideally, 170m-ish Stadler FLIRT/SMILE style units, electrodiesel with batteries. I go with SMILE-hybrid because speeds above 200km/h may become useful if any further high speed rail is actually built.

Interior resembling a Class 185 in terms of sections of 2+2 or 2+1 seating and significant standing room near doors or like that big open space near the disabled toilet on the 185.

The open space allows the trains to swallow crowds for short hops whilst still allowing the trains to perform their longer distance tasks

The Planner · 11 Jul 2026

Just because the line speed doesn't get to the max speed of a unit is not a reason to ignore them. Interoperabilty and standardisation is needed. Otherwise you wouldn't have had HSTs wandering about to start with or pootling about in Scotland.

What would a dream future cross-country train be like?

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