Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
Presumably this deal covers the entire fleet of 350/2s?
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Future of the 350/2s
- Thread starter Intercity110
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Snow1964
Established Member
They don't have quick door opening cycle, so much better suited to longer semi-fast services with fewer station calls, than ones with closely spaced stations where doors open every 2-3 minutes
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Does this mean a reshuffle, with 331s being moved to routes like Hadfield and Wigan, or will some 323s be retained?
Snow1964
Established Member
Presumably if talking late next year, they mean by December 2027 timetable change.
Weren't some more sections of new electrification supposed to be switched on by then, which presumably allows some services to switch from diesel, so going to have to be some sort of cascade of stock anyway. I don't know which months various electrification switch ons occur.
Transilien
Member
IMO, it would be better if more 150s were replaced before the 323s
Minicheddar
Member
There's nothing to replace the 150s with at the moment and probably wont be until Northern get the new trains ordered and into service
Mikey C
Established Member
- Joined
- 11 Feb 2013
- Messages
- 8,237
Yes, weird how slow the doors are to open, when the doors on other plug door fitted stock are so much faster. But decent trains.
stevieinselby
Established Member
Replacing the 150s with 350s might be mathematically more satisfying but they wouldn't get very far on those routes. Yes, the 150s do urgently need to be replaced but there isn't a surplus of DMUs available. The 350s are available to replace the 323s without going through any new build process, so it would be churlish to turn them down just because the 150s can't be replaced in the same timescale.
Liam L
Established Member
As a cross city local, to hear that 323s are finishing all together now is incredibly sad. But... The 350/2s will be very much a welcome improvement for the people of the North West and I'm glad they being put back into use, as let's face... With a good needed refurbishment they are actually very good units.
Looks like I need to get up to Manchester and North West Sharpish to get some rides on the old friends before they go.
Looks like I need to get up to Manchester and North West Sharpish to get some rides on the old friends before they go.
Rail Quest
Member
Excellent news, looking forward to using them!
Does "Expected late next year" mean they'll enter service or be in full service by then? If the former, why does it take 18 months to introduce trains that are not awaiting to be cascaded? Are they planning on repainting/refurbing them before introduction perhaps?
absolutelymilk
Established Member
- Joined
- 18 Jul 2015
- Messages
- 1,587
Chime Whistle Publishing on X
Apparently the 34 Class 323s will be replaced with 37 Class 350s. Given that 350s are a bit longer and there will be a few more of them, that means a reasonable increase in capacity.
Liam L
Established Member
first 5 come into service late next year. they need to be refurbished first and crew training to take place as Northern haven't operate them before.
Nicholas Lewis
Established Member
Seems a long period but given anything that gets stored aka 175s these days appears to suffer many problems when they put them back in traffic best be cautious.
I wonder how much this was being pushed by Andy Burnham as mayor to get more capacity and hes just been able to get it pushed through now in advance of the Manchester Mayoral election
Rail Quest
Member
Excellent, thanks both! It'll be interesting to hear what the refurb entails eventually.
Who is paying for the refurbishment? Porterbrook or Northern?
brad465
Veteran Member
They are longer but only by 10m a unit, because 350s are 20m carriages while 323s are 22.8m. I also recall seeing that the seating capacity is not actually higher on 350/2s vs 323s. However, a refurbishment could sort this out depending on the needs of the routes they are going onto.
Snow1964
Established Member
The 323s are 70.2m long, 350s are 81.36m, so nearer 11.2m longer
323s are rated at 1168kw (1566HP), 350s are 2000kw (2680HP), so have 171% of the 323 power rating, although they are geared for 20mph higher speeds. So 350s should accelerate faster (even if door opening is slower than a 323)
How the seating capacity might change during a refurb, (and they will be around 18-19 years old at refurb date in late 2027, so close to expected mid life) is not known yet.
Last edited:
Class 466
Established Member
331s are equally as slow with door release- 331018 was on the Hadfield line one night this week and the journey I took lost 2 minutes across it due to the slower release cycle.
I'm guessing Stoke stoppers won't get the 350/2s due to the door opening and closing cycles.
331s do quite well at keeping to 323 timings to be fair, not sure how good of a job a 350/2 would do.
Whatever happens though it means the end of Northern services using P3 at stoke and Northern don't use P3 when 331s operate stoke stoppers.
The lack of 331 spare parts helps to explain why so many stoke services were operated by 331s yesterday.
331s do quite well at keeping to 323 timings to be fair, not sure how good of a job a 350/2 would do.
Whatever happens though it means the end of Northern services using P3 at stoke and Northern don't use P3 when 331s operate stoke stoppers.
The lack of 331 spare parts helps to explain why so many stoke services were operated by 331s yesterday.
Liam L
Established Member
I recall someone at soho referred to the 323 fleet as one a kind and lot of the parts are obsolete for many years. So the timing to get rid of them now before they get older and more obsolete makes complete sense.
It's a full credit to the teams at Allerton (and soho) for keeping them running in top condition for so long.
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 34,241
So forum members dreaming of batteries and the west of England line can probably now give up?
Nah, just fit them to 450s instead
Do the Class 323s have more room for batteries underneath for use on the Morpeth and Northumberland Line (entering the future 1001 potential uses for a class 323 contest )
It’ll be the 458’s turn next
Class 466
Established Member
Southeastern could do with yet another microfleet
okay I’ll stop.These 350s will probably be the first to get a GBR spec refurbishment!
Now the new home is confirmed we can bring this thread to a close
www.railforums.co.uk
class 350/2s to replace 323s on Northern
As reported by chime whistle on X this afternoon. The government has agreed to lend all 37 350/2 units to northern they will undergo a £25 Million refresh and begin to enter service in 2027 replacing the 323s
www.railforums.co.uk
- Status