37052 xb mr
Established Member
3rd time that’s happened this week
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TfW Class 67+Mk4 sets: trip planning/experiences, diagram updates etc
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Topological
Established Member
My experience of the Mk4 today is that out of a fleet of 7 only 4 worked and none of them did the service I was on. This is despite there being adequate depot capacity.
It is like me tying Harry Kane's football boot laces together then wondering why he does not seem to be scoring anymore and therefore bringing Alan Shearer out of retirement instead.
When you say 48 and noting the failure of 1 later, is that 47/49 diagrams covered, because if so it is a much higher percentage than 4/5...
At least it sounds like the plan to pull the Mk4 services has been abandoned and there will be a Mk4 on 1V62 tomorrow.
ojb_455850
Member
Blimey! Didn't even notice... helps that I haven't checked... until today.
To be fair the MK4 runs empty to Crewe anyway so it's not much of a task for it to cover a 197 on a fairly short journey.
197s regularly cover all day diagrams for the MK4..
I was thinking the same. 47 out of 49 diagrams is very good..certainly better than 4 diagrams out of 5 booked for the MK4 covered.
Yes an oil leak was to blame but a missing diagram is a missing diagram no matter the reason.
It makes me laugh people blaming the 197s for poor availability and them not being able to cover the MK4s so therefore the MK4 must stay in service during a heatwave when the Aircon isn't good. If the MK4 was fit for purpose it wouldn't be an issue. Nice as first class is when you upgrade they really aren't working out in my opinion . Id sooner all 197s on the route. As long as 5 cars.
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47/49 is just over 95 percent covered which is better than the 80 percent MK4 covered.
We know 77 isn't a true number as some are stood down out of service until they are needed on Cambrian. Once that happened there will be far more needed in service each day.
Anyway fortunately I made it back following a bit of confusion at Cardiff where everyone boarded an AT 153 thinking it was swanline when infact it was empty to depot and a pair of 153s then came in from ebbw vale which formed swanline. Got back around 90 minutes later than planned and will be claiming delay repay but from East Midlands as they caused the initial delay.
We know 77 isn't a true number as some are stood down out of service until they are needed on Cambrian. Once that happened there will be far more needed in service each day.
Anyway fortunately I made it back following a bit of confusion at Cardiff where everyone boarded an AT 153 thinking it was swanline when infact it was empty to depot and a pair of 153s then came in from ebbw vale which formed swanline. Got back around 90 minutes later than planned and will be claiming delay repay but from East Midlands as they caused the initial delay.
Diagrams covered is not an availability measure.
I believe there are 21 ERTMS class 197s leaving 56 others. 47 out of 56 units in traffic (how availability is usually measured) is just over 80% or 4 out of 5, which neatly brings us back to the far older Mark 4s in the thread title.
MK4 is 5/7 based on the entire fleet not just booked diagrams. Which is 71.4%. If only 4 are out then that brings it down to just over 57%
I dont understand why people give the MK4's more allowances for poor performance just because they are 'old'. TFW originally planned to keep 170s for West Wales/Heart of Wales and have all new trains on the Manchester-South Wales. I think looking back it would have been better to stick with their original plan as well as keep some 153s like they have. And have a small fleet of 170s on various services in the South/West Wales. (I know the 170s were needed by EMR but if there had been capacity for TFW to keep some)
I dont understand why people give the MK4's more allowances for poor performance just because they are 'old'. TFW originally planned to keep 170s for West Wales/Heart of Wales and have all new trains on the Manchester-South Wales. I think looking back it would have been better to stick with their original plan as well as keep some 153s like they have. And have a small fleet of 170s on various services in the South/West Wales. (I know the 170s were needed by EMR but if there had been capacity for TFW to keep some)
SaltAndVinegar
Member
Personally I wouldn’t travel on the CDF-MAN route if there was no first class provision, I’d go back to GWR and Crosscountry so I can get a seat and be able to work.
Now what type of train turns up, I’m not too fussed, as long as it has some level of first class provision (beyond Thameslink standards!). The Mk4 sets I find very comfortable and almost every time I travel I purchase from the set menu, which is very convenient when travelling for work.
I just wish I could have more confidence in the first class accommodation and full service being available, rather than talking about canning it altogether. If TfW see first class as not being a good earner, I’d suggest that is at least in part due to passengers having a lack of faith in it being available when they travel. I do often see it busy on weekends with a lot of upgrades sold which is nice.
And TfW have recently reaffirmed their offer that you can travel on the next service with First if your booked service is substituted or cancelled, if you’re travelling on a First advance ticket. They can’t endorse onward connecting non-flexible tickets, so it’s only good if you are travelling solely on that route or have flexible onward connecting tickets.
Eventually HD08 will turn up, but I assume that will be followed by the ex LNER sets going out of service for refurb, so it won’t help much as there will still be 7 sets trying to cover 5 diagrams. Possibly 08 will be more reliable initially.
The amount of 197s out of passenger service is rather disappointing. I personally don’t see them as well suited to long journeys as CDF-MAN (and Fishguard-MAN etc). They feel like more of a commuter train, I wouldn’t want to regularly spend over 90mins on one and if it were my only option I’d seek an alternative route.
Now what type of train turns up, I’m not too fussed, as long as it has some level of first class provision (beyond Thameslink standards!). The Mk4 sets I find very comfortable and almost every time I travel I purchase from the set menu, which is very convenient when travelling for work.
I just wish I could have more confidence in the first class accommodation and full service being available, rather than talking about canning it altogether. If TfW see first class as not being a good earner, I’d suggest that is at least in part due to passengers having a lack of faith in it being available when they travel. I do often see it busy on weekends with a lot of upgrades sold which is nice.
And TfW have recently reaffirmed their offer that you can travel on the next service with First if your booked service is substituted or cancelled, if you’re travelling on a First advance ticket. They can’t endorse onward connecting non-flexible tickets, so it’s only good if you are travelling solely on that route or have flexible onward connecting tickets.
Eventually HD08 will turn up, but I assume that will be followed by the ex LNER sets going out of service for refurb, so it won’t help much as there will still be 7 sets trying to cover 5 diagrams. Possibly 08 will be more reliable initially.
The amount of 197s out of passenger service is rather disappointing. I personally don’t see them as well suited to long journeys as CDF-MAN (and Fishguard-MAN etc). They feel like more of a commuter train, I wouldn’t want to regularly spend over 90mins on one and if it were my only option I’d seek an alternative route.
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Topological
Established Member
The depot is not suitable for servicing the number of 197s on the lines. Therefore, it is a bit harsh to try and claim the class should be able to have all of them in service. Chester is only planned to keep a subset in service so inevitably there will be less percentage wise. There is ample space for the Mk4s that are in service. I think it is very relevant to consider depot capacity when you are checking availability.
Today I had the Mk4, First was its usual underoccupied self, though there were probably 15 in so that is up on many weeks. Train was late, but that was something to do with Avanti at Crewe rather than anything the set did wrong.
I was very happy with my 197 on 1W11 yesterday. The problem was that it was not 5-car, not that it was a 197. It also matters whether you want to pay for first class. I took first because it cost me a couple of pounds more. I got that back in coffee. I cannot see how the prices I paid make sense to TfW.
Today I had the Mk4, First was its usual underoccupied self, though there were probably 15 in so that is up on many weeks. Train was late, but that was something to do with Avanti at Crewe rather than anything the set did wrong.
I was very happy with my 197 on 1W11 yesterday. The problem was that it was not 5-car, not that it was a 197. It also matters whether you want to pay for first class. I took first because it cost me a couple of pounds more. I got that back in coffee. I cannot see how the prices I paid make sense to TfW.
D6130
Established Member
Yesterday (Wednesday 08/072026), 1V39, 10 30 from Manchester, was pretty full in first class - I would say about 80% - with about 15 people having breakfast (brunch?)....and very good it was too!
Floydlover25
Member
- Joined
- 5 Feb 2011
- Messages
- 53
14.53 Cardiff to Manchester (1W61) seems to be booked for a unit (197111) today
ojb_455850
Member
67012+HD04 was meant to be on that... but is now covering 1W59/1V50 due to the failure of 67008+HD02 on 1V37.
That was a preplanned swap. HD04 has 67025 for company and not 67012 as RTT is showing.
ojb_455850
Member
Ahhh thank you.
Anyone know what the problem was with 67008? Three hours at a stand somewhere south of Leominster and now being towed by a rescue loco to Hereford
SaltAndVinegar
Member
A fault with the braking system
Thank you
ojb_455850
Member
1W97 is 197114 – not surprising given 67010+HD03 is at Holyhead currently.
Topological
Established Member
Glad I got 1V62 yesterday then.
3 carriages will be fine from Shrewsbury south, but that is going to be a busy Friday train until then.
3 carriages will be fine from Shrewsbury south, but that is going to be a busy Friday train until then.
SaltAndVinegar
Member
013/HD01 MAN-SHR shuttle today. Started short on first service and it’s not been good at keeping to time, but gradually recovering at turnaround if it doesn’t get further delayed en route too much.
First time one has been planned/booked to stop at Alderley Edge. They have stopped previously (3 times i believe) but only when the mk4 was working vice a unit following disruption.
ojb_455850
Member
Given 67016 went light engine to Holyhead on 0Z16 yesterday, presumably that’ll be taking 67010+HD03 back to Crewe for repairs on Monday. Or if it’s just 67010 that needs to be taken back, will another 67 run light engine to Holyhead tomorrow and go straight onto HD03 ready for 1V91 on Monday? If the former is the case, I'm guessing D1 will be a unit all day on Monday, or a swap-out for another set will happen on 1V91 at Chester or on 1W57/1V46 at Crewe.
37052 xb mr
Established Member
MrBeanie
Member
Is anything booked in for this yet
37052 xb mr
Established Member
No, it’s not a straightforward hook on
67016 & go or it would have left.
Will possibly go when it’s quiet.
37052 xb mr
Established Member
No, only 1st
Standard menu order to seat.