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Platform arrangements where high speed trains pass.

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blueberry11

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Cambridge South new station opening

Early days, but any comments on how widely used the station is? Does it seem like there are more people getting off in the morning than getting on? Friend of mine who lived nearby and has used it a couple of times says he is amazed at the passenger numbers and said it has the feel of a London...
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swt_passenger said:
A 2.5m side platform is ok up to 100 mph. Above that speed the minimum becomes 3m.
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Seems surprising that 100mph is permitted even for 2.5m platform. Does that 2.5m mean from the platform edge or the yellow marking/tactile? For comparison, that's the width of a standard car park space. And I though if trains go at and over 100, then I thought the platforms must be barricaded (see the GEML between Shenfield and Stratford).
 
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swt_passenger

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blueberry11 said:
Seems surprising that 100mph is permitted even for 2.5m platform. Does that 2.5m mean from the platform edge or the yellow marking/tactile? For comparison, that's the width of a standard car park space. And I though if trains go at and over 100, then I thought the platforms must be barricaded (see the GEML between Shenfield and Stratford).
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2.5m is from the platform edge, ie it includes the coping slab and the integral tactile. (They’re usually one piece on current builds when using standard components.) As far as I remember from the NR standards (that used to be publically accessible), trains can definitely pass open platforms at up until 125 mph, they’d need to be wider, ie 3m at 100 mph, but if services generally don’t stop then they’ll not usually be easily accessible. But there’s no blanket prohibition.

Platforms that see trains faster than 125 mph do have to be access controlled.

Then there are other rules concerning warning notices if there’s air turbulence caused by freight trains.
 
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andy33gmail

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rmHawk765 said:
I mean HS1 counts, though technically it is non-NR so do with that what you will.
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I can’t imagine Stratford supports 125mph running, and I imagine it uses the central tracks at Ashford halt & Ebbsfleet Town? So still not a real life example of 125/140/186mph trains on a platform open to the public?
 
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Bald Rick

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andy33gmail said:
I can’t imagine Stratford supports 125mph running, and I imagine it uses the central tracks at Ashford halt & Ebbsfleet Town? So still not a real life example of 125/140/186mph trains on a platform open to the public?
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Correct, although the linespeed on the thorugh lines at Stratford International is 230km/h (143mph).
 
brad465

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Slough did until they put fencing up after the Oxford services ceased calling there (and making life harder for Etonians getting to the next stage of their life).

Didcot Parkway still allows this though as the main platforms are 125mph and have both trains calling and passing through without stopping.
 
CarltonA

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brad465 said:
Slough did until they put fencing up after the Oxford services ceased calling there (and making life harder for Etonians getting to the next stage of their life).
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Platform three was quite lively before the fencing. Tourists having just changed from the stately calm of the Windsor shuttle suddenly leaping away from the edge as an HST tore through at full pelt.
 
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cornishjohn

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I dont know if trains actually get that fast out of Edinburgh, but linespeed on the sectional appendix at wallyford and prestonpans is 125. Platofrms there dont seem especially wide.
Chathill is also 125.
 
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zwk500

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pokemonsuper9 said:
Rugby Platform 4 has trains passing at 125mph
It's quite a wide platform but is not access controlled whatsoever.
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The requirement is for trains *above* 125mph. It is perfectly permitted (provided you meet the other width and separation from the edge criteria) to have an open platform with a 125mph linespeed.

Stevenage (2 & 3)
Biggleswade (2 & 3)
St Neots (2 &3)
Newark North Gate (1 & 2)
Northallerton (1 & 2)

Are all 125mph linespeed between King's Cross and Berwick.

Wembley Central (3 & 4)
Harrow & Wealdstone (3 & 4)
Bushey (4)
King's Langley (1 & 2)
Apsley (1 & 2)
Hemel Hempstead (1 & 2)
Berkhamsted (1 & 2)
Tring (1 & 2)
Cheddington (1 & 2)
Leighton Buzzard (1 & 2)
Bletchley (1 & 2)
Milton Keynes Central (4 & 6)
Wolverton (1 & 2)
Rugby (4)
Nuneaton (3 & 4)
Lichfield Trent Valley (1 & 2)

Are all at least EPS 125mph between Euston and the MD101/NW1001 boundary south of Rugeley Trent Valley.

I haven't checked other 125mph lines
 
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Mechy

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One of the worst places I have stood when a train passes is at Wembley Central. If you stand on Platform 5 when a fast service passes on Platform 4 (125mph) the air draft can knock you off your feet if you stand near one of the gates blocking the platform.
 
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class26

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zwk500 said:
The requirement is for trains *above* 125mph. It is perfectly permitted (provided you meet the other width and separation from the edge criteria) to have an open platform with a 125mph linespeed.

Stevenage (2 & 3)
Biggleswade (2 & 3)
St Neots (2 &3)
Newark North Gate (1 & 2)
Northallerton (1 & 2)

Are all 125mph linespeed between King's Cross and Berwick.

Wembley Central (3 & 4)
Harrow & Wealdstone (3 & 4)
Bushey (4)
King's Langley (1 & 2)
Apsley (1 & 2)
Hemel Hempstead (1 & 2)
Berkhamsted (1 & 2)
Tring (1 & 2)
Cheddington (1 & 2)
Leighton Buzzard (1 & 2)
Bletchley (1 & 2)
Milton Keynes Central (4 & 6)
Wolverton (1 & 2)
Rugby (4)
Nuneaton (3 & 4)
Lichfield Trent Valley (1 & 2)

Are all at least EPS 125mph between Euston and the MD101/NW1001 boundary south of Rugeley Trent Valley.

I haven't checked other 125mph lines
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Newark is debatable as it is 100mph immediately north of the platforms for the flat crossing to Lincoln. Trains will either be slowing to or accelerating from 100 mph and wouldn`t be anyway near 125 at the platforms
 
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zwk500

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class26 said:
Newark is debatable as it is 100mph immediately north of the platforms for the flat crossing to Lincoln. Trains will ei9ther be slowing to or accelerating from 100 mph and woildn`t be anyway near 125 at the platforms
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While this is a fair point and attainable speed is considered in risk assessments and standards, the way the standards are worded currently only considers the authorised linespeed, so from that perspective Newark NG is no different to, say, Northallerton.
 
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SuspectUsual

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Northallerton worries me a bit, especially on the up, as the way the timetable is constructed you often have a TPE coming off the Yarm branch straight after a fast has gone through, meaning announcements have been made for the stopper and people have started to move forward on the platform. It’s not that wide a platform in front of the waiting room.

I mentioned it to a friend who is a driver for LNER in Newcastle and she said it can be a bit scary tanking through and seeing an old dear with a suitcase staggering out of the waiting room
 
Tetchytyke

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zwk500 said:
Wembley Central (3 & 4)
Harrow & Wealdstone (3 & 4)
Bushey (4)
King's Langley (1 & 2)
Apsley (1 & 2)
Hemel Hempstead (1 & 2)
Berkhamsted (1 & 2)
Tring (1 & 2)
Cheddington (1 & 2)
Click to expand...
The fast line platforms at stations on the southern WCML are all fenced off. IIRC the gates aren't locked and you can just wheel them open if you really want to, but the platforms are fenced off.

The door to Bushey platform 4 is locked, it can only be opened from the platform side using an exit plunger button. That's why trains scheduled to call there are marked as set-down only.

Wembley Central is different again, even the slow line platforms (1 & 2) are secured and the doors down to the platforms are only opened a few minutes before a train is due to arrive.

I'm still surprised that they put a platform on the up fast at Peterborough a few years ago, given how fast the non-stoppers can tank through there. But clearly it is all within standards.
 
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zwk500

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Ashley Hill said:
When in Berkhamstead last week all entrances to P1/2 were barriered off preventing access.
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Tetchytyke said:
The fast line platforms at stations on the southern WCML are all fenced off. IIRC the gates aren't locked and you can just wheel them open if you really want to, but the platforms are fenced off.
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Fair point, I was going through it quite quickly so overlooked the fencing off - I've no idea if that would count as being 'closed' for a +125mph line though. And yes, the gates can be opened whenever: I used to commute from Wolverton Station and late-notice platform swaps to the Fast Lines were quite a normal thing to happen (despite the trains being committed from Hanslope or MKC...), the gates were often also just left open.
Tetchytyke said:
I'm still surprised that they put a platform on the up fast at Peterborough a few years ago, given how fast the non-stoppers can tank through there. But clearly it is all within standards.
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Linespeed of 105mph through Platform 3, according to the Sectional Appendix.
 
milooo

milooo

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I know there are plenty of platforms in France where the line speed is 137 mph (220kph). Don't know the platform widths however. But that may be going a bit OT now.
 
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Palmerston

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I've stood on a platform in Japan where the high speed trains go through with no barriers at what felt like full speed.
 
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edwin_m

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We had a discussion on this a few years ago when looking at the potential to increase speeds on the existing ECML and WCML. As suggested above there aren't many platforms that might have trains passing at above 125mph especially north of the then limits of HS2 which is what we were looking at. But those that are would have to have some sort of controlled access and someone would have to confirm the platform was empty before a non-stop train went through, otherwise the driver would have to slow to 125.
 
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SuspectUsual

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DarloRich said:
Northallerton both ways must be 125. Narrow platforms in various spots at that station
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Yeah I said that on post #19

But expanding on it a bit, the other issue there is that the PIS announcements occasionally seem to get wrongly sequenced so you get:

1 “the next train does not stop here please stand well clear”

2 “the next train is the xx.xx to zzzzzzz

3 fast trains thunders through

4 stopper comes off the Yarm branch

It’s been reported so hopefully it gets fixed but it must be terrifying for the drivers
 
DarloRich

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SuspectUsual said:
Yeah I said that on post #19
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yes - sorry - i missed that!
SuspectUsual said:
But expanding on it a bit, the other issue there is that the PIS announcements occasionally seem to get wrongly sequenced so you get:

1 “the next train does not stop here please stand well clear”

2 “the next train is the xx.xx to zzzzzzz

3 fast trains thunders through

4 stopper comes off the Yarm branch

It’s been reported so hopefully it gets fixed but it must be terrifying for the drivers
Click to expand...
The fast train alert doesn't work properly at Bletchley either - gets very confused between platforms 3/4 and 5 especially if a train changes line
 
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UBoot

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I don't know what the line speed was in the 1960's through Carnforth.
But a 'non stopping train' was calmly announced by the ringing of a bell.
I remember Britannia's coming Northbound getting up speed for the climb to Greyrigg and it seemed to me they were going at a tremendous lick. The whole place fairly rocked as they leaned to the curve and blasted through. Standing as close as one dared to the platform edge was certainly an unforgettable experience. When they had passed there was a blizzard of loose paper and debris floating around.
 
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Bald Rick

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edwin_m said:
But those that are would have to have some sort of controlled access and someone would have to confirm the platform was empty before a non-stop train went through, otherwise the driver would have to slow to 125.
Click to expand...

The platform would have to be proven clear / empty before a train could be given movement authority to pass at more than 125mph, which is a rather more constraining issue.
 
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