Getting harder to do any work on trains?

Maybe it's just old age and grumpiness, but I'm finding it harder and harder to get useful work done on long distance trains these days. Firstly, the lack of tables in standard class on many trains. It is really hit and miss whether you get a proper table these days - I can remember a time when we had Mark 2 carriages in which every seating bay in second class had a proper table rather than these fold-up 'airline' things. Also, passengers in second are generally people who do real work, so I'd argue that they have a greater need for them than the (insert adjective of your choice) people in first class.
There's also the quality ride these days. I've done a few trips up and down the west and east coast main lines lately and the vibration and jitteriness has made it almost impossible to type on a keyboard for long stretches. Again, maybe it's old age but my perception is that it's getting far worse.
Finally, there's onboard wifi. I find the quality of connections varies hugely. It always seems to be dreadful on LNER, to the point where it's almost unusable, much better on London Midland, Northern and GTR/Southern.

What are other peoples' experiences?

Can't disagree but it's another one to add to the pile of things we can't afford anymore. It was a luxury of yesteryear. The primary focus is transporting people to their places of work, not making the train into a mobile office

I think that's a good direction given how cramped and overcrowded many services are

speedy1 said:

Can't disagree but it's another one to add to the pile of things we can't afford anymore. It was a luxury of yesteryear. The primary focus is transporting people to their places of work, not making the train into a mobile office

I think that's a good direction given how cramped and overcrowded many services are

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Not long distance trains, surely? I would have thought being able to work or at least do some activity on the train is a primary motivator; pretty much everybody on the services I was on was typing away on a laptop or tablet. (One was even writing something on a sheet of paper.) Being able to work on the journey is one factor that has kept me using the train despite the catastrophic unreliability of the service in recent weeks. Yes, trains are being used as mobile offices, in the same way that coffee shops and even pubs are.

I'll work on the train if I get a proper table or enough space that the tray-table is a good approximation, otherwise definitely not. A former employer disagreed, I made health-and-safety noises, and they left me alone. Laptops are bad enough for your wrists and neck as it is, without trying to use one precariously balanced on a tray table too low and too close to your guts because you can't open the screen far enough to see otherwise. Might've done it when I was young and dumb, but not any more.

Even 20 years ago, I remember trying it in Voyager standard and immediately ruling it out.

MoominAndChips said:

I'll work on the train if I get a proper table or enough space that the tray-table is a good approximation, otherwise definitely not. A former employer disagreed, I made health-and-safety noises, and they left me alone. Laptops are bad enough for your wrists and neck as it is, without trying to use one precariously balanced on a tray table too low and too close to your guts because you can't open the screen far enough to see otherwise. Might've done it when I was young and dumb, but not any more.

Even 20 years ago, I remember trying it in Voyager standard and immediately ruling it out.

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I'm self-employed so the only person I can threaten with Health & Safety is myself...

Shimbleshanks said:

Maybe it's just old age and grumpiness, but I'm finding it harder and harder to get useful work done on long distance trains these days. Firstly, the lack of tables in standard class on many trains. It is really hit and miss whether you get a proper table these days - I can remember a time when we had Mark 2 carriages in which every seating bay in second class had a proper table rather than these fold-up 'airline' things. Also, passengers in second are generally people who do real work, so I'd argue that they have a greater need for them than the (insert adjective of your choice) people in first class.

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I fond most tables on current stock to easily fit a standard laptop on, though there are exceptions to this such as on the class 196. But not everyone wants a table seat, so having a mix of seating is good for both personal preferences and capacity.
Trains are primarily a form of transport and not a work space, if you can work on them then thats an added benefit but I do not think they should be designed around this if it means lowering capacity on busy routes. Where first class exists there is an option for those who required more work space.

On local/shorter regional routes I thin the priority should be to get the most amount of seats (comfortably) in, if this means having fewer tables I think its a fair compromise for what will be shorter journeys.
On longer distance/intercity routes there will generally be reservations possible if you want a table, so having a balance of seating types is ideal (something like the GWR class 800 I find to balance the number of table seats quite well).
I accept there will be exceptions to this where some long regional routes do not offer reservations and have few tables.

Bemused at the assertion that only standard passengers do real work?

The majority of passengers I'm with in First (or Standard Premium on Avanti) are similarly hunched over a laptop working away. On the occasions I've been in Standard on an IET I've found them adequately decent for working on thanks to the legroom. Pendo and Voyagers somewhat less so.

VT 390 said:

I fond most tables on current stock to easily fit a standard laptop on, though there are exceptions to this such as on the class 196. But not everyone wants a table seat, so having a mix of seating is good for both personal preferences and capacity.
Trains are primarily a form of transport and not a work space, if you can work on them then thats an added benefit but I do not think they should be designed around this if it means lowering capacity on busy routes. Where first class exists there is an option for those who required more work space.

On local/shorter regional routes I thin the priority should be to get the most amount of seats (comfortably) in, if this means having fewer tables I think its a fair compromise for what will be shorter journeys.
On longer distance/intercity routes there will generally be reservations possible if you want a table, so having a balance of seating types is ideal (something like the GWR class 800 I find to balance the number of table seats quite well).
I accept there will be exceptions to this where some long regional routes do not offer reservations and have few tables.

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I purposely bought a very compact laptop primarily so that I could work on seat-back tables if I really have to; the problem is that the keys are very small for my pudgy fingers. Yes, I agree that a mix of tables and airline style seating is an idea. In my experience, the Azumas have a fair number but other stock doesn't, like West Midlands' new 730s. (Which also have an atrocious ride quality.)

Shimbleshanks said:

In my experience, the Azumas have a fair number but other stock doesn't, like West Midlands' new 730s. (Which also have an atrocious ride quality.)

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I agree with the LNER Azuma (800/801) having a good balance of seating types as they are similar to the GWR 800 I mentioned.

On rolling stock like the class 730 I think the number of tables is fine for the work they do (as its important to prioritise the number of seats) which is mainly local routes with high numbers of passengers or on slower regional services where faster/more comfortable options exist for those who really want/need the better work environment where the main purpose of the service is not end to end traffic.
I do agree with your comment of ride quality of these units (and many other newer stock) which is far from ideal if looking to work.

As far as I'm concerned, being able to work is an important differentiator for long-distance rail travel. Doing a couple of hours of useful work instead of "dead time" driving can justify going by train even if it's a bit more expensive or takes longer door to door. Unfortunately decent wifi is becoming even more of a pre-requisite as Microsoft and others progressively move functionality into the cloud, and most trains aren't keeping up with this. Worst are 22x where not only is the on-board wifi useless but the coating on the windows blocks mobile reception. When launching the 810s EMR made a big point about how their windows would let the signal through.

It's a bit like the curate's egg: good in parts, bad in parts.
On LNER (afaik uniquely) the tray tables extend to be able to support a laptop properly, which was a welcome innovation. That said i do prefer a real table whenever possible, and usually get one.
Other stock with airline seats are (like most airline economy seats) fairly hard to work in. And if course, across and south of the thames there is the abominable table-free stock, almost empty all day but still impossible to work in. A good reason not to change to Thameslink at Stevenage.

I've done a lot of work on the ECML over the last 15-20 years, and I do find where you sit to be critical: in the middle of the carriage, on almost any line, is smoother than at the ends on top of the bogie pivots! This is just simple physics. A smooth tide certainlyhelps typing and when poor you ate right that it is very hard to type. That said, the Azuma suspension is to me more consistent than the mk4, which when it was good was very very good, but when it was bad it was horrid. As to the track quality, that is for me better than it was 10-15 years ago on the way into London from Newark, but still with unexpected bad bits at times.
Other passengers can of course affect the work too; both by bring antisocial with calls on speaker (grr - guidelines fir use clearly say "don't" and " keep it short"), and just making it too crowded when the operator consistently short forms or plans inadequate space. This time I'm looking at you, Cross Country. Having to sit on the floor Bristol to Cheltenham is not acceptable as regular practice!

The problem with on train WiFi is the uplink: when based on mobile data service, it's only as good as the data signal. And in many parts of the betwork it is awful (I'm looking at you ECML north and Edinburgh to Glasgow!).
Plus the WiFi system has high latency, and for business web applications like Miscrosoft CRM which make large numbers of small queries in sequence, this makes them unusable. I don't work in CRM from a train! Email and documents downloaded once and viewed locally are fine most of the time though. After all, it is necessary to plan your work when travelling so it is possible to have most documents ready!

merry said:

It's a bit like the curate's egg: good in parts, bad in parts.
On LNER (afaik uniquely) the tray tables extend to be able to support a laptop properly, which was a welcome innovation. That said i do prefer a real table whenever possible, and usually get one.

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This is becoming more common on new/refurbished stock as some form of tray table extenders are fitted on: Avanti West Coast class 805, 807, 390. GWR class 800, 802. Transport for Wales class 197. Lumo class 803. Hull Trains class 802. TransPennine Express class 397, 802. There will likely be others which I have missed here as well.
I agree these are quite useful for a Laptop with the more restrictive factor being the seat pitch from the seat in front but for most standard sized laptops tray tables that extend should be adequate for a journey of a few hours.

EMR 158s have extending tables too.

Being retired, my wife and I don't need to do any 'work', but on our Wednesday awaydays from Bristol (usually Cardiff, Cheltenham, Bath, Oxford, Hackney Wick for V&A East, Weston-S-Mare, or Salisbury) we like to get two copies of the Metro, grab opposing seats at a table, and compete/co-operate on the cryptic crossword. Stupid, I know! We usually get a table, on various kinds of stock.

contrex said:

Being retired, my wife and I don't need to do any 'work', but on our Wednesday awaydays from Bristol (usually Cardiff, Cheltenham, Bath, Oxford, Hackney Wick for V&A East, Weston-S-Mare, or Salisbury) we like to get two copies of the Metro, grab opposing seats at a table, and compete/co-operate on the cryptic crossword. Stupid, I know! We usually get a table, on various kinds of stock.

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One can only hope to have such a great retirement routine!

I work on trains a lot and rarely have an issue. I generally don't use on board wifi as its no better and frequently worse than a hot spot via my phone but I often try and do 'offline' work anyway re travelling.

I've no desire to go back to Mark2 carriages as there simply wouldn't be enough seats for everyone on todays much busier railway.

williamn said:

I work on trains a lot and rarely have an issue. I generally don't use on board wifi as its no better and frequently worse than a hot spot via my phone but I often try and do 'offline' work anyway re travelling.

I've no desire to go back to Mark2 carriages as there simply wouldn't be enough seats for everyone on todays much busier railway.

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If only the tele companies would invest in good signal across mainlines such as WCML and ECML, rather than having to rely on poor wifi.
Even the elizabeth line which is deep underground, has full 4G or 5G signal.