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SWR Class 458/4s: fleet status and withdrawal updates

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Siemens Staines

Siemens Staines

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It looks from todays allocations that the remaining three 458 diagrams are

458428 + 458408
5C09 0542 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to London Waterloo
2C09 0618 London Waterloo to Reading
2C20 0809 Reading to London Waterloo
2C23 0948 London Waterloo to Reading
2C34 1139 Reading to London Waterloo
2S37 1322 London Waterloo to Weybridge
2S46 1503 Weybridge to London Waterloo
2V47 1637 London Waterloo to London Waterloo
2R53 1815 London Waterloo to London Waterloo
5Y30 1958 London Waterloo to Clapham Yard Sidings

458413 + 458424
5Y03 0445 Clapham Yard Sidings to Clapham Junction
2Y03 0506 Clapham Junction to Weybridge
1S12 0632 Weybridge to London Waterloo
2V13 0807 London Waterloo to London Waterloo
5Y84 0941 London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs

and then possibly?
5R45 1551 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to London Waterloo
2R45 1615 London Waterloo to London Waterloo
2S55 1752 London Waterloo to Weybridge
2S64 1933 Weybridge to London Waterloo
5Y65 2111 London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs FX
5Y32 2110 London Waterloo to Clapham Yard Sidings FO

458409 + 458402
5S05 0426 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to London Waterloo
2S05 0522 London Waterloo to Weybridge
1S14 0702 Weybridge to London Waterloo
2V15 0837 London Waterloo to London Waterloo
5Y86 1010 London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs

and then as per the May LTP diagrams?
5V51 1633 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to London Waterloo
2V51 1737 London Waterloo to London Waterloo
2C61 1918 London Waterloo to Reading
2C72 2109 Reading to London Waterloo
2S75 2252 London Waterloo to Weybridge
5Y69 0012 Weybridge to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs SX
5Y68 0012 Weybridge to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs SO
 
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Goldfish62

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Siemens Staines said:
It looks from todays allocations that the remaining three 458 diagrams are

458428 + 458408
5C09 0542 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to London Waterloo
2C09 0618 London Waterloo to Reading
2C20 0809 Reading to London Waterloo
2C23 0948 London Waterloo to Reading
2C34 1139 Reading to London Waterloo
2S37 1322 London Waterloo to Weybridge
2S46 1503 Weybridge to London Waterloo
2V47 1637 London Waterloo to London Waterloo
2R53 1815 London Waterloo to London Waterloo
5Y30 1958 London Waterloo to Clapham Yard Sidings

458413 + 458424
5Y03 0445 Clapham Yard Sidings to Clapham Junction
2Y03 0506 Clapham Junction to Weybridge
1S12 0632 Weybridge to London Waterloo
2V13 0807 London Waterloo to London Waterloo
5Y84 0941 London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs

and then possibly?
5R45 1551 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to London Waterloo
2R45 1615 London Waterloo to London Waterloo
2S55 1752 London Waterloo to Weybridge
2S64 1933 Weybridge to London Waterloo
5Y65 2111 London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs FX
5Y32 2110 London Waterloo to Clapham Yard Sidings FO

458409 + 458402
5S05 0426 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to London Waterloo
2S05 0522 London Waterloo to Weybridge
1S14 0702 Weybridge to London Waterloo
2V15 0837 London Waterloo to London Waterloo
5Y86 1010 London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs

and then as per the May LTP diagrams?
5V51 1633 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to London Waterloo
2V51 1737 London Waterloo to London Waterloo
2C61 1918 London Waterloo to Reading
2C72 2109 Reading to London Waterloo
2S75 2252 London Waterloo to Weybridge
5Y69 0012 Weybridge to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs SX
5Y68 0012 Weybridge to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs SO
Click to expand...
Thanks. I've noticed on RTT there's quite the influx of 450s replacing 458/4s on Reading services today.
 
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Peter Sarf

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Goldfish62 said:
Thanks. I've noticed on RTT there's quite the influx of 450s replacing 458/4s on Reading services today.
Click to expand...
It has just occurred to me that with summer (particularly school holidays) and fewer commuters that SWR can manage without the 458/4s and by the time summer finishes, so 450s needed else where, there will be enough 701s anyway.

All of a sudden the 458/4s are looking effectively like a micro fleet.
 
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WWTownEnth

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Peter Sarf said:
It has just occurred to me that with summer (particularly school holidays) and fewer commuters that SWR can manage without the 458/4s and by the time summer finishes, so 450s needed else where, there will be enough 701s anyway.

All of a sudden the 458/4s are looking effectively like a micro fleet.
Click to expand...
Very soon they will be looking like an ex fleet!
 
Siemens Staines

Siemens Staines

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Peter Sarf said:
It has just occurred to me that with summer (particularly school holidays) and fewer commuters that SWR can manage without the 458/4s and by the time summer finishes, so 450s needed else where, there will be enough 701s anyway.

All of a sudden the 458/4s are looking effectively like a micro fleet.
Click to expand...

The 458/4s are loosing booked diagrams at the rate of one pair per week as each new 701 diagram commences. That would put the last weekday of booked 458/4 operation to be 24th July which aligns with the last day of the current LTP PA period (I apologise if I have used the wrong terminology). I do not know if 24th July is definitely the last planned date for passenger use of 458s with SWR, but that looks to be the way the wind is blowing.
 
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Peter Sarf

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WWTownEnth said:
Very soon they will be looking like an ex fleet!
Click to expand...
Well, yes.
Siemens Staines said:
The 458/4s are loosing booked diagrams at the rate of one pair per week as each new 701 diagram commences. That would put the last weekday of booked 458/4 operation to be 24th July which aligns with the last day of the current LTP PA period (I apologise if I have used the wrong terminology). I do not know if 24th July is definitely the last planned date for passenger use of 458s with SWR, but that looks to be the way the wind is blowing.
Click to expand...
Makes me think the 455s eked out a slower end than the 458/4s will.
 
Siemens Staines

Siemens Staines

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Siemens Staines said:
5R45 1551 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to London Waterloo
2R45 1615 London Waterloo to London Waterloo
2S55 1752 London Waterloo to Weybridge
2S64 1933 Weybridge to London Waterloo
5Y65 2111 London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs FX
5Y32 2110 London Waterloo to Clapham Yard Sidings FO

5V51 1633 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to London Waterloo
2V51 1737 London Waterloo to London Waterloo
2C61 1918 London Waterloo to Reading
2C72 2109 Reading to London Waterloo
2S75 2252 London Waterloo to Weybridge
5Y69 0012 Weybridge to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs SX
5Y68 0012 Weybridge to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs SO
Click to expand...

The evening peak trains are now allocated

2R45 458421 + 458415
2V51 458427 + 458426

Both are set swaps so 5 pairs (10 units) out in total today, but it does confirm that these are the evening peak legs of these diagrams this week.
 
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Peter Sarf

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swr444 said:
There were a lot more 455s than 458s
Click to expand...
I know. But it feels like the the last dozen or so are going to be gone rather quicker.

I suppose a difference is that the 458/4s are not going for scrap and are to be returned to the ROSCO in a fit state. Perhaps that means no running them into the ground.
 
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adc82140

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Are we reaching a point with so few diagrams left that some drivers & guards competencies will expire?
 
NSEWonderer

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adc82140 said:
Are we reaching a point with so few diagrams left that some drivers & guards competencies will expire?
Click to expand...
Still enough opportunity to get them within 6 months, but then again the expected retirement for this fleet was this month so it won't be an issue
 
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WWTownEnth

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Any know if there will be a storage move this week? The usual Friday to Bournemouth, perhaps?
 
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Peter Sarf

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Nicholas Lewis said:
Long Marston next calling point then?
Click to expand...
Although there are the sidings at Eastleigh that a few 701/0s were stored in.

Maybe Marchwood as well. That is where 6 (or more ?) 701/0s were stored.

Both locations convenient for rotating with warmer store at Eastleigh.
 
Big Jumby 74

Big Jumby 74

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From the SW network perspective, there are still a handful of sidings within the SW network that can accommodate 4 car units, but are utterly useless for 5 car units, but (without thinking about the numbers in detail) unlikely enough for 14 x 4 car (as quoted above, if correct?).

I suspect those 458/4 still available for service/serviceable will be the first to be handed back directly to free up space for 701/5 incomers, so taken out of service at Wim Depot, and removed by road or rail (dragged) within the following couple of days (of removal from traffic duties) or so (on a rolling basis over a number of weeks), and those 458/4 stored (at Bomo) will gradually be removed later as and when convenient to all parties, as their presence at Bomo should not have any detrimental impact on day to day operations.

BOLD - added for clarity.
 
Last edited:
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WWTownEnth

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There are 16 five car 701s yet to arrive on the SWR network and I gather space is already tight. I assume that means something will have to be done imminently with the 14 458/4 units yet to find a retirement home.
 
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Peter Sarf

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Big Jumby 74 said:
From the SW network perspective, there are still a handful of sidings within the SW network that can accommodate 4 car units, but are utterly useless for 5 car units, but (without thinking about the numbers in detail) unlikely enough for 14 x 4 car (as quoted above, if correct?).

I suspect those 458/4 still available for service/serviceable will be the first to be handed back directly to free up space for 701/5 incomers, so taken out of service at Wim Depot, and removed by road or rail (dragged) within the following couple of days (of removal from traffic duties) or so (on a rolling basis over a number of weeks), and those 458/4 stored (at Bomo) will gradually be removed later as and when convenient to all parties, as their presence at Bomo should not have any detrimental impact on day to day operations.

BOLD - added for clarity.
Click to expand...
Begs the question will some bright spark "rationalise" Bomo once the 458/4s have gone.
WWTownEnth said:
There are 16 five car 701s yet to arrive on the SWR network and I gather space is already tight. I assume that means something will have to be done imminently with the 14 458/4 units yet to find a retirement home.
Click to expand...
As above. There are sidings that are long enough for a 458/4 but not long enough for a 701/5. So some of the 458/4s don't need to leave urgently.

Thats unless 450s could use them ?.
 
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adc82140

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Still two 458/5s to move off to Long Marston as well. That'll free up space for 2x 701/5s
 
Big Jumby 74

Big Jumby 74

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Peter Sarf said:
Begs the question will some bright spark "rationalise" Bomo once the 458/4s have gone.
Click to expand...
If anyone genuinely thinks along those lines, they will be crucified by the Operations/Fleet and Planning departments. Bournemouth West CS (as was/still is) is the ONLY location that has a small degree of spare stabling space, which will often be used for various schemes, unit modifications, repaints, exam turnovers, etc.

In that regard it is currently being used for 458/4 storage on a temporary basis, but once they are gone, there will be a need for that space for other initiatives the SW has in the pipeline going forward.

If anyone thinks any given maintenance stabling point/depot can be filled with stock to its maximum physical capacity each night, and then expect the train service provision to start as planned the following day without problem , they are living in fantasy land, end of!

As I alluded to above about Farnham, certain sidings have to be kept clear each night to allow units to gain access to the CET point every night.

So anyone who thinks such locations should be stabled up to their maximum each night, I will say, be prepared for the WC's on trains the next day to be locked out of use on a daily basis, unit failure rates to increase, etc.

I can (but won't on here) quote the number of cars that a lesser experienced project Manager quoted me as being 'do-able' in relation to Wimbledon depot (both parts) many years in the past. Taking every siding in to account, they were correct, if one is talking about purely stabling and nothing ever moves.

Coming from an operational background, I nearly had a brown trouser moment. Suitable advice was given, about the need to reform trains, move certain designated units from this or that siding to the maintenance shed (and visa versa) every night, let alone Fleet Control having to reform units/trains (on depot) in relation to mileage based issues.

Bottom line at somewhere like Wimbledon, the depot will need (in addition to simple overnight stabling for trains in their ready to move make up each morning), will need something like 10-15% of the overall siding space left vacant each night to allow for operational flexibility.


 
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WimFit

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Nicholas Lewis said:
Long Marston next calling point then?
Click to expand...
Strawberry Hill, the rest at Wimbledon.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Big Jumby 74 said:
If anyone genuinely thinks along those lines, they will be crucified by the Operations/Fleet and Planning departments. Bournemouth West CS (as was/still is) is the ONLY location that has a small degree of spare stabling space, which will often be used for various schemes, unit modifications, repaints, exam turnovers, etc.

In that regard it is currently being used for 458/4 storage on a temporary basis, but once they are gone, there will be a need for that space for other initiatives the SW has in the pipeline going forward.

If anyone thinks any given maintenance stabling point/depot can be filled with stock to its maximum physical capacity each night, and then expect the train service provision to start as planned the following day without problem , they are living in fantasy land, end of!

As I alluded to above about Farnham, certain sidings have to be kept clear each night to allow units to gain access to the CET point every night.

So anyone who thinks such locations should be stabled up to their maximum each night, I will say, be prepared for the WC's on trains the next day to be locked out of use on a daily basis, unit failure rates to increase, etc.

I can (but won't on here) quote the number of cars that a lesser experienced project Manager quoted me as being 'do-able' in relation to Wimbledon depot (both parts) many years in the past. Taking every siding in to account, they were correct, if one is talking about purely stabling and nothing ever moves.

Coming from an operational background, I nearly had a brown trouser moment. Suitable advice was given, about the need to reform trains, move certain designated units from this or that siding to the maintenance shed (and visa versa) every night, let alone Fleet Control having to reform units/trains (on depot) in relation to mileage based issues.

Bottom line at somewhere like Wimbledon, the depot will need (in addition to simple overnight stabling for trains in their ready to move make up each morning), will need something like 10-15% of the overall siding space left vacant each night to allow for operational flexibility.
Click to expand...
Very well said. I’ve had Wimbledon depot completely full on a night shift in the past and you’re snookered. You can’t move anything.
 
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Nicholas Lewis

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WimFit said:
Strawberry Hill, the rest at Wimbledon.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


Very well said. I’ve had Wimbledon depot completely full on a night shift in the past and you’re snookered. You can’t move anything.
Click to expand...
Thanks for clarity but as they have no further use for them it must only be a matter of time before they are stored elsewhere presumably? Or are they not being moved off SW area because they are still on lease?
 
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Travellin’man

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Siemens Staines said:
It looks from todays allocations that the remaining three 458 diagrams are

458428 + 458408
5C09 0542 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to London Waterloo
2C09 0618 London Waterloo to Reading
2C20 0809 Reading to London Waterloo
2C23 0948 London Waterloo to Reading
2C34 1139 Reading to London Waterloo
2S37 1322 London Waterloo to Weybridge
2S46 1503 Weybridge to London Waterloo
2V47 1637 London Waterloo to London Waterloo
2R53 1815 London Waterloo to London Waterloo
5Y30 1958 London Waterloo to Clapham Yard Sidings

458413 + 458424
5Y03 0445 Clapham Yard Sidings to Clapham Junction
2Y03 0506 Clapham Junction to Weybridge
1S12 0632 Weybridge to London Waterloo
2V13 0807 London Waterloo to London Waterloo
5Y84 0941 London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs

and then possibly?
5R45 1551 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to London Waterloo
2R45 1615 London Waterloo to London Waterloo
2S55 1752 London Waterloo to Weybridge
2S64 1933 Weybridge to London Waterloo
5Y65 2111 London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs FX
5Y32 2110 London Waterloo to Clapham Yard Sidings FO

458409 + 458402
5S05 0426 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to London Waterloo
2S05 0522 London Waterloo to Weybridge
1S14 0702 Weybridge to London Waterloo
2V15 0837 London Waterloo to London Waterloo
5Y86 1010 London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs

and then as per the May LTP diagrams?
5V51 1633 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to London Waterloo
2V51 1737 London Waterloo to London Waterloo
2C61 1918 London Waterloo to Reading
2C72 2109 Reading to London Waterloo
2S75 2252 London Waterloo to Weybridge
5Y69 0012 Weybridge to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs SX
5Y68 0012 Weybridge to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs SO
Click to expand...
Bearing in mind the expected removal of 1 diagram each week being replaced by 701s is there any way of knowing which of these three is the next diagram to go. Would like one more chance at a ride. Tia for any help
 
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FinsburyPark

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I see many of them are being slowly replaced by 701s. Definitely a nicer stock to ride. There was always a charm about old gen units though.

Commuters mostly never liked them but some of us do or did.
 
Siemens Staines

Siemens Staines

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Two pairs of 458/4 are out today vice 701 in addition to the three booked pairs

458427 + 458426
5U05 0603 Staines C.H.S. to Staines
2U05 0609 Staines to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U12 0656 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U15 0803 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U22 0923 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U25 1033 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U32 1153 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U35 1303 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U42 1423 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U45 1533 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U52 1653 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U55 1803 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U62 1923 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U65 2033 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U72 2153 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U75 2303 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside

458404 + 458423
5U09 0540 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to London Waterloo
2U09 0633 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U16 0753 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U19 0903 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U26 1023 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U29 1133 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U36 1253 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U39 1403 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U46 1523 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U49 1633 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U56 1753 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U59 1903 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U66 2023 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U69 2133 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U76 2253 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
 
43096

43096

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Nicholas Lewis said:
Thanks for clarity but as they have no further use for them it must only be a matter of time before they are stored elsewhere presumably? Or are they not being moved off SW area because they are still on lease?
Click to expand...
As they are still on lease, if SWR want to store them elsewhere they will be picking up the bill, not Porterbrook, hence why they are being stored at SWR sites.
 
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