That was only by couple of weeks though, not really the same as XC deciding to put their fleet into GBR livery with 12 months+ left to go...
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Great British Railways - First Train in New Livery
- Thread starter northernbelle
- Start date
That was only by couple of weeks though, not really the same as XC deciding to put their fleet into GBR livery with 12 months+ left to go...
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R
RailUK Forums
Oh, well yes. However, we could see something from Chiltern or GWR.
RUK
Member
If so, then that will be different to the original design, which had angular-U-shaped red lines on the middle coach:
This is perhaps shown more clearly on this image of the Hornby model, which is already on sale for pre-order - they got the design from GBR before the launch: https://rainbowrailways.co.uk/wp-co...-R40572-Railroad-GBR-800-Full-Rake-scaled.jpg
I suspect we’ll see plenty of errors applying that design!
Being vinyl should help with consistency, but if they start applying it with paint then yeah, I can see plenty of errors emerging.
zwk500
Veteran Member
On most multiple units, no. And if it is possible to turn individual carriages within the depot, it'd presumably be simple enough to turn them twice to get the orientated correctly.
The bigger risk would be on formations where a carriage can be swapped between sets, or removed for a fault while in service, such as HSTs, but:
- I think MK4s can't be taken out of service in that way as the couplings on intermediate vehicles are specifically to couple to another Mk4. And TfW's Mk4s presumably wouldn't be GBR livery anyway.
- The HSTs are only working for Scotrail so wouldn't be GBR livery (and are scheduled for replacement).
- The Mk5s for the Sleeper will presumably stay in their dedicated livery.
- Not sure if the MK5As for Chiltern are capable of being split off-depot.
BurtonM
Member
I severely doubt many/any 15x will get GBR livery (except possibly some 158/159?). In the case of Northern, DfT already refused to change from Arriva's branding at least once - 195s maybe, but I bet that's even a while off.
It'd be a big u-turn, and it'd get bashed as a waste of money on 40 year old trains due for replacement.
It'd be a big u-turn, and it'd get bashed as a waste of money on 40 year old trains due for replacement.
TreacleMiller
Member
First ones ordered to arrive under "GBR", that's about it.
Internal fit out is already underway on one or two of the coaches and seats etc. We're ordered a while back.
I wonder if they will repaint the livery just to position the red arrow correctly when there is a coach number change on a train that is already in a GBR livery. E.g. when Southern Rail reformed their Class 171s from a 4-car unit to a 3-car unit in 2022.
If they repaint a train that is already in GBR livery, it may be a waste of money, but it would look ugly if they don't.
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Even painting the middle car from the GBR flag to plain blue still incurs costs.
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RUK
Member
The extra bit on the middle cars looks separate to the rest of it, so I guess it can just be removed or added separately as necessary without having to re-do the entire carriage - like when TOCs changed hands and names in the past, a small section of vinyl was just put on top over the old name, initially.
IMO short distance odd numbered units such as 3- car 159s really would benefit from a plain blue centre car with the darker blue triangular shape only and of course the text branding. But this livery does seem to be rather ill through through so I expect it to be slapped with the red ends and very noisy.
It’s quite interesting with these NSE era units to see them back in relatively similar colours some 25 years later.
Assuming here though there are many of the older Mk3 derived units and other BR types that will never see these colours
It’s quite interesting with these NSE era units to see them back in relatively similar colours some 25 years later.
Assuming here though there are many of the older Mk3 derived units and other BR types that will never see these colours
Armchair Bob
Member
I sincerely hope that this new garish GBR livery will not applied universally, with the associated costs of doing so, and will be restricted to a few examples here and there around the country to advertise the creation of the umbrella company only. The evolution of our railway network has created the current variations of regional liveries which are for the most part very pleasant and are important to the passengers to identify the trains they need to use. The application of a corporate identity would destroy this and therefore be a retrograde step.
I have noticed that the rolling stock of companies recently taken back into public ownership have started to become shabby as the inevitable cost-cutting starts to take hold - another sign of a probable return to the bad old days.
A one-size-fits-all policy will remove any sense of competitive spirit and employees pride in their company, bringing us back to square one where nobody will particularly care about anything anymore.
I have noticed that the rolling stock of companies recently taken back into public ownership have started to become shabby as the inevitable cost-cutting starts to take hold - another sign of a probable return to the bad old days.
A one-size-fits-all policy will remove any sense of competitive spirit and employees pride in their company, bringing us back to square one where nobody will particularly care about anything anymore.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I can see this happening but it really should not - as I always point out the competitor is the car and air, not other rail operators. Petty spatting between rail operators helps nobody.
Is it only Lumo that realises that, or at least claims to?
Next Monday will mark 1 year of c2c under public ownership, so I reckon 357312 will return from its 4 month absence next week.
720501 and 144 was supposed to get into service for the grand opening of Cambridge South, but there is no confirmed date for that to happen soon, probably not until October when it marks a year of greater anglia under public ownership.
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It was controlled by the DfT before and still is now. I don't see any difference in my region.
RUK
Member
The official opening ceremony of Cambridge South that the Class 720s were put into GBR livery for has been post-poned, due to the Bedford rail crash - it was deemed inappropriate (passengers injured in the crash were taken to Addenbrooke’s Hospital (which is the major trauma centre for the East of England), which Cambridge South serves, and is next to - the original proposals for the station in the 1990s called it Addenbrooke’s rail station - there was a mock-up of an Addenbrooke’s sign in Network SouthEast branding back then). So presumably we’ll see them at the official opening of Cambridge South, whenever that takes place, but there’s no date set for that yet. I believe some patients from Bedford might still be at Addenbrooke’s, and haven’t been discharged yet. So no celebration of the railways for a while.
Why hope for something we know will not happen ?
Agree. I for one am for a corporate livery, i guess though with the odd variation here and there
Sorry but that's not happening. There's no point in designing a livery (which then has to be specialised for every type of unit) if you're going to put it on a few trains here and there. GBR isn't going to be an umbrella company - these brands (especially ones like Avanti and c2c) are going to disappear into a regional structure. And people don't just look at the colour of the train to know whether or not it's their train, or Southern and Great Northern would be having very big problems!
I haven't noticed GA's rolling stock getting shabby, or SWR, or LNWR. Thameslink's is getting less shabby! There haven't been any changes to funding yet because the oldest TOC taken into public ownership as part of GBR prep has been in public ownership for just over a year.
I also don't understand why having uniform branding will mean nobody will care about anything. Like people have said, the competition is from roads and air travel, not other operators. People today seem to have pride in being part of the railway, not specifically LNER or whatever. On top of that, there will still be distinct regions for people to have pride in, but people won't stop caring because their trains are suddenly the same colour as the trains on the other side of the country.
Thanks for the info! That's quite sensible of them.
I think the GBR livery looks smart and I’m looking forward to seeing it roll out wider.
I agree that costs need to be considered as it’s not a good look to spend thousands on rebranding but the railway needs to build a brand image that represents the brand like TFL or Scotrail.
I will miss the c2c brand but welcome a change that will hopefully be for the better.
And the c2c trains seem better than ever externally with an exterior refresh. Likewise GA trains all look in good nick to my eyes.
Maybe one day we will love the GBR livery and lament when it gets replaced. Maybe not. However today I am positive and want it to succeed.
Hope to see 357 312 in its GBR glory soon.
I agree that costs need to be considered as it’s not a good look to spend thousands on rebranding but the railway needs to build a brand image that represents the brand like TFL or Scotrail.
I will miss the c2c brand but welcome a change that will hopefully be for the better.
And the c2c trains seem better than ever externally with an exterior refresh. Likewise GA trains all look in good nick to my eyes.
Maybe one day we will love the GBR livery and lament when it gets replaced. Maybe not. However today I am positive and want it to succeed.
Hope to see 357 312 in its GBR glory soon.
If all trains having the same livery is a problem for identifying which train is operating a specific service, maybe we should tackle the way we describe and sign services to reduce that problem, rather than relying on something which has never been a reliable indicator. Busses these days have massive destination / route signs on the front of them - why can't trains? Why has the Virgin introduced "destination / service / next stop" sign by each door gone out of fashion? Are on-platform displays and station wayfinding clear enough?
If you mean the LED displays on the doors of the Pendolinos and by the doors of the Voyagers, it hasn't gone out of fashion. In fact, pretty much all modern trains have it, though for commuter trains sometimes not by the doors.
Do they? I'm not taking about the repeater screens stuck in random windows showing the same destination as the front of the train, but ones next to the places that people are actually looking at (the doors) with useful information that answers "does this train stop at x?" and "is this actually the 1207 departure?" I'll give you the 80x's, even though it's not really near the doors, but not present on the vast majority of other new stock.
ollyexe2808
Member
Here here!
I absolutely understand some people are sceptical about the changes being made but equally I have noticed no change on the cleanliness of the nationalised operated stock where I have been on those services.
The livery could do with some tweaks but that will happen with time. Brands change. I am in the GWR area and I will miss the GWR green but....I am not so saddened that it will cause me any lost sleep. Like Jamster47, I want GBR to succeed.
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
I know it's not BR but back then, trains were re-varnished/re-liveried as they fell due for overhaul. However, the application of, and even then liveries/identities now are not as simple as slapping on all over green or blue - or even blue & grey - plus the fact locos and carriages built within the past few years will have paint warranties, so there will be no rush for a national push towards putting trains into GBR livery. I would prefer reliable and resilient services rather than a rush for trains being taken out of service for draping in the union jack colours
And the shabbiest I use is Cross Country, which won’t be publicly owned until the end of the process so can’t blame DfT for scuffing their paintwork and threadbare carpets. Or, maybe you can and actually they’ve been in control for longer than anybody realised and just had their pet projects to keep trains around London looking smart
Youd think that most units with long paint warranties will get some kind of GBR branding applied and removal of current TOC names as a cost saver.