Motorail services in the 1970s

I wonder if the Totnes passengers were detrained upon arrival and the motorail flats propelled into the down siding and unloaded via the old cattle dock gates.

Shot of the unloading from the Down platform at Totnes.

Totnes

The current ticket office was only built in 1983 so there was a bit more room. Part of the original buildings had been destroyed by fire in 1962 - a Portakabin affair sufficed in the meantime.

Snow1964 said:

There are 4 pages (blue leaflet) in this blood and custard article, looks like passengers went by separate train having dropped off car.

BloodandCustard - Okehampton Car Carrier 1960-1964

www.bloodandcustard.com

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Do not forget the WR car shuttle from Pilning to Severn Tunnel Junction (pre M4 /48 and Severn Road Bridge) - steam hauled of course and saving the A40 drag via Gloucester.

This came up on Facebook earlier, Kensington Olympia on Blue Peter - 1966

Tracked said:

This came up on Facebook earlier, Kensington Olympia on Blue Peter - 1966

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fb.watch

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Fascinating. But why the need for the 'roller coaster' effect? Yes, they need to clear the bogies, but can't the bottom level be flat based on the height of the bogies, and the top level also be flat. After all, if the height of the top level over the bogies is within gauge, then the whole of the top would be likewise. Is it to do with the centre of gravity?

MotCO said:

Fascinating. But why the need for the 'roller coaster' effect? Yes, they need to clear the bogies, but can't the bottom level be flat based on the height of the bogies, and the top level also be flat. After all, if the height of the top level over the bogies is within gauge, then the whole of the top would be likewise. Is it to do with the centre of gravity?

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they only had a couple of TV channels in those days, you have to get your fun somehow I guess? (there probably is a practical reason, also)

MotCO said:

Fascinating. But why the need for the 'roller coaster' effect? Yes, they need to clear the bogies, but can't the bottom level be flat based on the height of the bogies, and the top level also be flat. After all, if the height of the top level over the bogies is within gauge, then the whole of the top would be likewise. Is it to do with the centre of gravity?

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I am not on Facebook, but I presume you are referring to the Cartic-4 sets. The problem is that the lower deck cannot be very high internally, so it is just not capable of carrying larger cars, even allowing that in the 1960s there weren’t many of the massive tanks that we have nowadays. If you had a level upper platform raised high enough to clear even the more modest sized cars of the era on a level lower deck, it would be too high to accommodate anything but the smallest vehicles within the loading-gauge. With the Cartic-4 sets you could put one or two larger cars in the upper deck dips and a couple of medium ones either side with their lowest portions, the bonnet and boot, on the ramps and so still within the loading-gauge. It is really quite a clever design: all credit to BR and Ford, who were also involved.

At Glasgow Central (and Carlisle IIRC) there was a specially designed wagon for unloading cars. At Glasgow the train would use platform 11 so that cars had access to the adjacent roads. See photo.

Sir Felix Pole said:

Shot of the unloading from the Down platform at Totnes.

Totnes

The current ticket office was only built in 1983 so there was a bit more room. Part of the original buildings had been destroyed by fire in 1962 - a Portakabin affair sufficed in the meantime.

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That’s a great shot. I’m going to try identifying the railman. I notice the drop case clock is still on the upside above the old east end shunters cabin. The car is as you say being unloaded by what is the current building. I had a guided tour of the interior before it opened.

d9009alycidon said:

At Glasgow Central (and Carlisle IIRC) there was a specially designed wagon for unloading cars. At Glasgow the train would use platform 11 so that cars had access to the adjacent roads. See photo.

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These were converted from Weltrol wagons and got numbered in the 9645x series.

At Carlisle it allowed loading/unloading onto Platform 1, with cars entering/exiting the station via the ramp at the Northern end of the station connecting to Victoria Viaduct. The vans were uncoupled from the rear of a Euston-Glasgow service (having been attached to the DVT); an 08 with the unloading wagon would couple up and shunt to the Northern end of Platform 1; vehicles would then be unloaded. Then the process in reverse but with the vans attached to the rear of the propelling loco of a Glasgow-Euston service. Plenty of photos online with these Southbound services with an 87 or 90 sandwiched between a rack of Mk 3s and the trailing GUVs.

Some Motorail GUVs were upgraded with improved end-doors and I think permitted to run at 110mph, which would have seen them being B5 fitted versions and needing a special maintenance regime (as the NHA BGs had been). These vehicles were renunbered from the 961xx series to 962xx, covering the Euston-Glasgow and Euston-Carlisle services.

Prior to the Weltrol unloading vehicle conversions the Motorail operation at Carlisle involved a lot of complicated shunt moves. The GUVs were always between the loco and main train, so the AC loco had to be uncoupled as well. The GUVs would be pulled North out of the station; return all the way back through with an 08 onto the lines down towards Settle/Newcastle; then be propelled into the Motorail dock behind the retaining wall adjacent to Platform 6. My memory is sketchy but I think it needed two pairs of vans because the 08 would have already propelled the loaded vans through the station where the AC loco would propel them onto the set to work push-pull back to London. So a set of vans did a single trip a day. Once they had the Weltrol wagon the same vans returned South later in the day, the much simpler shunt moves supporting that.

I'm always surprised the Carlisle Motorail survived until Privatisation because the M6 had opened through to Carlisle in the mid-1970s, making London-Carlisle driveable entirely by Motorway (M1/M6). It used to be advertised as good way to get to the Lakes, but you were having to double back to do that plus even then it was only useful for the Northen Lake District. If you wanted the more popular South Lakes it wasn't convenient at all.

Snow1964 said:

There are 4 pages (blue leaflet) in this blood and custard article, looks like passengers went by separate train having dropped off car.

BloodandCustard - Okehampton Car Carrier 1960-1964

www.bloodandcustard.com

Click to expand...

Thanks - I thought I was up to date with that site but obviously not....

I would surmise that the cars went (1960 timings):
10.15pm XF Nine Elms to Plymouth fitted freight to Exeter/Yeoford, 7.9am SF Yeoford to Barnstaple (semi-fitted Salisbury to Torrington), or on the 5.21am passenger from Central.
Return on the 4.15pm XF Bideford or possibly 5.25pm SF Torrington to NE.

Just came across this BBC Blue Peter film: Christopher Trace & John Noakes getting a preview of Motorail loading at Olympia

A Whizzo, Whistler and lower quadrant signals. The only thing missing was the cream and brown totems and I’d have been in heaven. Thanks for sharing.

Unlikely the way for the upper deck car driver to get out would appeal to H&S nowadays ...

Taunton said:

Unlikely the way for the upper deck car driver to get out would appeal to H&S nowadays ...

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Indeed - though walking back along the upper deck of the DB equivalent still felt a little precarious (SNCF used their own drivers!)

I can't be alone in noting how much taller and wider cars have generally become in recent years - certainly compared with family cars of the 1970s. In the highly unlikely event that GBR were to relaunch Motorail, would this still be feasible or would too many modern cars and SUVs prove to be too big to load safely without fouling the loading gauge?

Rescars said:

I can't be alone in noting how much taller and wider cars have generally become in recent years - certainly compared with family cars of the 1970s. In the highly unlikely event that GBR were to relaunch Motorail, would this still be feasible or would too many modern cars and SUVs prove to be too big to load safely without fouling the loading gauge?

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Think they would need to revert to a 21st century version of the diagram 1/131 or FVX/FVV wagons. They comfortably transported Transit Vans from Bathgate so would cope with the largest of the Chelsea Tractor family