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Quick question. For travel from Heathrow to Cambridge I often buy a (super) off peak day travelcard from Cambridge to London Zones 1-6 with a railcard discount (and only use the travelcard component and the return of the outboundary part).
Now I have to make a similar journey in the morning peak. Just confirming that the off peak restrictions don’t apply within the morning peak for travel wholly within the London zones (let’s say restriction code C4, not valid to arrive/depart any London Terminal before 10:00), even on National Rail/Elizabeth Line services bound for London Terminals?
Also, can such a ticket be used before the railcard validity time (say for two together railcard which is ordinarily valid only after 9:30?)
on weekdays, for travel within the zones all off peak Travelcards are valid from 0930. Tickets discounted with a Two Together Railcard are invalid before 0930.
on weekdays, for travel within the zones all off peak Travelcards are valid from 0930. Tickets discounted with a Two Together Railcard are invalid before 0930.
Probably to wait until 09:30! However, it might depend on how early the journey is starting and how quick it needs to be. An Anytime Single from Zone U1256 to Cambridge route 'Any Permitted' is £37.70, with assorted other fares available depending on requirements.
Probably to wait until 09:30! However, it might depend on how early the journey is starting and how quick it needs to be. An Anytime Single from Zone U1256 to Cambridge route 'Any Permitted' is £37.70, with assorted other fares available depending on requirements.
Thanks everyone. For an anytime the U1256 ticket is actually not bad.
Just wondering why U1256 ticket is not valid on Elizabeth Line? Maybe a beginner question. Is it because Underground Zones 1-6 is not the same as Travelcard/London Zones 1-6? I thought for some “interoperability” reasons or something like that they would be the same.
Will maybe consider a split at Hayes & Harlington to allow use of Elizabeth Line. (£9.00+£34.60)
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Also curious how U2345 to Cambridge via Tottenham Hale (£32.60) can be used (from Hatton Cross after a free transfer?) Presumably you’d need to avoid Zone 1, not just start in Zone 2-5? Is there anywhere online to actually purchase this ticket?
Purchase flexible single/return tickets & Travelcards – in 3 clicks. Full details of all British rail fares shown, with built-in Season Ticket Calculator.
www.brfares.com
If Zone 1 is indeed to be avoided that sounds far too tedious. I would maybe consider £37.10 U1245 to Cambridge using the free transfer to Hatton Cross (saving 60p, more a curiosity than a real saving I guess). Can I split ticket on the underground in this manner (use the blue free transfer ticket and a paper U1245 from Heathrow to Cambridge without exiting and re-entering at Hatton Cross)?
Thanks everyone. For an anytime the U1256 ticket is actually not bad.
Just wondering why U1256 ticket is not valid on Elizabeth Line? Maybe a beginner question. Is it because Underground Zones 1-6 is not the same as Travelcard/London Zones 1-6? I thought for some “interoperability” reasons or something like that they would be the same.
Will maybe consider a split at Hayes & Harlington to allow use of Elizabeth Line. (£9.00+£34.60)
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Also curious how U2345 to Cambridge via Tottenham Hale (£32.60) can be used (from Hatton Cross after a free transfer?) Presumably you’d need to avoid Zone 1, not just start in Zone 2-5? Is there anywhere online to actually purchase this ticket?
Purchase flexible single/return tickets & Travelcards – in 3 clicks. Full details of all British rail fares shown, with built-in Season Ticket Calculator.
www.brfares.com
If Zone 1 is indeed to be avoided that sounds far too tedious. I would maybe consider £37.10 U1245 to Cambridge using the free transfer to Hatton Cross (saving 60p, more a curiosity than a real saving I guess). Can I split ticket on the underground in this manner (use the blue free transfer ticket and a paper U1245 from Heathrow to Cambridge without exiting and re-entering at Hatton Cross)?
Because TfL want to have their cake and eat it, essentially!
They pretend that the Elizabeth line is an Underground line for ticketing purposes, between Paddington and Abbey Wood/Stratford, and therefore requires a ticket which is valid on the Underground (e.g. a cross-London ticket or Underground Zones ticket).
This isn't actually legally true because it's not stated in the National Rail Conditions of Travel or Routeing Guide. However, it is how it works in practice because they never created point-to-point fares to/from stations in the 'core' (e.g. Bond Street) and they managed to get the industry to change the NRCoT to ban break of journey in the 'core'. It's how the barriers at 'core' stations are programmed and what the barrier staff are trained.
They also fiddled with the Routeing Guide data so that journey planners wouldn't validate Elizabeth line 'core' journeys unless the ticket includes Underground validity.
East of Stratford and west of Paddington, TfL treat the Elizabeth line as the National Rail service it is, and therefore don't accept Underground tickets (under normal circumstances).
This cakeism conveniently means they can charge airport passengers much more for the Elizabeth line than the Piccadilly line... An awful coincidence!
Exactly. A ticket to Underground Zones 1-6 is valid for a journey on National Rail services to an appropriate interchange station*, followed by a journey on Underground or DLR services within the specified zones.
As above, the Elizabeth line is managed by TfL but is still National Rail service, as with the Overground. Therefore you are reliant on the interavailability which exists between Paddington and Abbey Wood/Stratford to use Underground tickets on it. You can't use Underground tickets on it west of Paddington.
*What would be "appropriate" isn't defined anywhere publicly, or even in the accreditation rules for journey planners AFAIK. But I would suggest that any of the recognised cross-London interchange stations (see the 'travel via London' section of this page on NRE) would certainly count. There are probably others that aren't listed there which would probably also be reasonable, for example Sudbury Hill Harrow or Bowes Park.
That's often the cheapest option. If time isn't of the essence, the bus is a lot cheaper from Hayes & Harlington to Heathrow, and only about 10-15 minutes slower if you're travelling to terminals 2 or 3. Obviously that depends on how long you have to wait for a bus - they're pretty frequent but you end up getting unlucky if they're bunched up.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Also curious how U2345 to Cambridge via Tottenham Hale (£32.60) can be used (from Hatton Cross after a free transfer?) Presumably you’d need to avoid Zone 1, not just start in Zone 2-5?
Given the requirement to avoid Zone 1 and the fact that it's not valid on National Rail services once you've interchanged onto the Underground (or vice versa) I think you'd need to use an extremely circuitous route such as Hatton Cross-Earls Court-West Brompton-Stratford-Tottenham Hale.
Using the Victoria line (e.g. changing at Highbury & Islington instead of Stratford in this example) is probably what's intended with that ticket. But I think technically the Underground validity would have expired after reaching West Brompton - that would probably be regarded as your LU-NR interchange station, and so after that, I don't think you can 'return' to using the Underground validity again.
There is interavailability which allows NR tickets valid on the North London Line to be used on the Underground via any reasonable route (without break of journey), and for LU-issued Underground zonal tickets to be used on National Rail services along the North London Line. Technically that wouldn't allow you to use the Underground zonal element of your ticket on National Rail services (i.e. the Overground), because your ticket would have been issued by a National Rail retailer.
In practice it's a moot point as long as you're not planning to break your journey. Neither route involves passing through a barrier line and in the event of an RPI check both routes are plausible and reasonable. TfL staff often treat Underground Zonal tickets as valid on the Overground anyway, probably due to the above interavailability.
Purchase flexible single/return tickets & Travelcards – in 3 clicks. Full details of all British rail fares shown, with built-in Season Ticket Calculator.
If Zone 1 is indeed to be avoided that sounds far too tedious. I would maybe consider £37.10 U1245 to Cambridge using the free transfer to Hatton Cross (saving 60p, more a curiosity than a real saving I guess).
As you have a Railcard, if you're travelling at times when a peak PAYG fare would be charged you'll be better off using that paper ticket. This is because of the fact that the Underground Zonal add-on benefits from a Railcard discount at all times of day (and the National Rail time restrictions don't apply), whereas you don't get a Railcard discount on PAYG peak fares.
Can I split ticket on the underground in this manner (use the blue free transfer ticket and a paper U1245 from Heathrow to Cambridge without exiting and re-entering at Hatton Cross)?
The blue free transfer tickets are only valid on National Rail services (i.e. the Heathrow Express and Elizabeth line). You have to use PAYG to make a free transfer on the Piccadilly line. So you'd have to touch out and back in at Hatton Cross (or just out if you have an onward paper ticket) to split there.
In my experience the dwells are so short that you always have to step back a train when doing so, even if you run to the gateline and back (I've tried!).
Very detailed, Watershed, thank you so much! Answers a lot of questions I’ve had for quite a while.
BRFares selling tickets now is so nice. I could imagine seriously struggling finding a specific U-zones ticket and needing to be really creative in a query on some app or finding the right person at a ticket office.
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