Help! Fined for failure to collect physical ticket!

kyaadam · 28 Jun 2026

In late March I travelled to Manchester for a concert. I purchased my tickets online using trainline beforehand.

My journey home was as follows;

Deansgate - Preston (Lancs)
Preston (Lancs) - Glasgow Central

On my journey between Deansgate and Preston I was stopped by a ticket conductor. When I went on the trainline app to retrieve my ticket I realised I had a collection code and not an e-ticket like all my friends had.

I was fined but the conductor was very polite and suggested I appeal it as she believed it was a genuine mistake and I had paid in full for my journey and just didn’t collect the physical ticket. I appealed and all 3 attempts of mine were unsuccessful. I’m posting this as a last bid for some help. The fine is now £115, I’m not in a financial position to pay it right now and it’s more than how much the entire journey cost me in the first place.

If anyone knows anything I could do to bring the amount down or get my case dismissed I would be very grateful if they could share this with me. The railway company I received the fine from is Northwestern Railway, but I reside in Scotland Glasgow.

RailUK Forums

Haywain · 28 Jun 2026

kyaadam said:
I was fined but the conductor was very polite and suggested I appeal it as she believed it was a genuine mistake and I had paid in full for my journey and just didn’t collect the physical ticket. I appealed and all 3 attempts of mine were unsuccessful. I’m posting this as a last bid for some help. The fine is now £115,

So, you were presumably issued with a Penalty Fare Notice?

kyaadam said:
The railway company I received the fine from is Northwestern Railway,

No, it wasn't. It might have been Northern or possibly TransPennine Express.

If you had come to use earlier we might be better placed to help as there are often technical grounds to appeal a Penalty Fare which are not obvious to those less familiar with them. Whether you have sufficient grounds to try an challenge the PFN through another channel is difficult to say, and no my area of expertise. We will need more information for that (for example, post a copy of the notice with your personal details redacted).

kyaadam said:
The fine is now £115, i’m not in a financial position to pay it right now and it’s more than how much the entire journey cost me in the first place.

I'm guessing that it isn't more then the journey and tickets for a concert cost you though?

transportphoto · 28 Jun 2026

kyaadam said:
I appealed and all 3 attempts of mine were unsuccessful.

I fear this is going to be an important hinge point - if you’ve appealed a penalty fare three times, there are no further routes of appeal. We’re unlikely to be able to help.

kyaadam · 28 Jun 2026

Haywain said:
So, you were presumably issued with a Penalty Fare Notice?

No, it wasn't. It might have been Northern or possibly TransPennine Express.

If you had come to use earlier we might be better placed to help as there are often technical grounds to appeal a Penalty Fare which are not obvious to those less familiar with them. Whether you have sufficient grounds to try an challenge the PFN through another channel is difficult to say, and no my area of expertise. We will need more information for that (for example, post a copy of the notice with your personal details redacted).

I'm guessing that it isn't more then the journey and tickets for a concert cost you though?

Sorry, you're right it was Northern Railway.

I will upload the physical notice later tonight, when I am home. I also wish I knew about this forum earlier, I was only directed here today while checking old reddit threads.

It is in fact more than my concert tickets and journey combined. Additionally, I was fined for being unable to produce a ticket for the journey between the stations Deansgate and Preston. Taking this into account the ticket cost for Deansgate to Preston was minuscule in comparison to the fine.

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transportphoto said:
I fear this is going to be an important hinge point - if you’ve appealed a penalty fare three times, there are no further routes of appeal. We’re unlikely to be able to help.

Understandable, I think I am now looking to see if there’s any point of contact within the Northern Railway team who can assist with getting the fine reduced as I’ve heard in some cases, or to figure out a payment plan as I cannot pay the fine right now.

Swedenorer · 28 Jun 2026

You did not have a valid ticket for the journey. Proof of purchase is not a valid ticket.

How did trainline deal with the uncollected ticket in your account?

kyaadam · 28 Jun 2026

They didn’t. I don’t think they are notified as to whether or not the ticket is collected so nothing happened in that regard.

AlterEgo · 28 Jun 2026

kyaadam said:
They didn’t. I don’t think they are notified as to whether or not the ticket is collected so nothing happened in that regard.

They are. Until recently, if a refundable ticket was not collected, 28 days later an automatic refund was issued. If it was an Advance however no refund is due.

Acathater · 28 Jun 2026

Is the penalty fare for the whole Deansgate - Glasgow journey or just Deansgate - Preston?
Seems strange that you weren't given the option of printing tickets at Preston for the Preston-Glasgow leg. Would still have left you liable for the Northern part of the journey but presumably would have been cheaper

blimmo · 28 Jun 2026

Acathater said:
Is the penalty fare for the whole Deansgate - Glasgow journey or just Deansgate - Preston?
Seems strange that you weren't given the option of printing tickets at Preston for the Preston-Glasgow leg. Would still have left you liable for the Northern part of the journey but presumably would have been cheaper

That's not just strange, it would make the penalty fare unlawful.

Mcr Warrior · 28 Jun 2026

Deansgate->Preston (Lancs) very likely to have been charged as £15.90 for an Anytime Day Single. Adding the £100.00 PF on top.

Elecman · 28 Jun 2026

Have you now paid the Penalty Fare?

gray1404 · 28 Jun 2026

You need to upload the PF notice and the responses received after each of the three appeals before we can see if we can actually help.

WesternLancer · 28 Jun 2026

kyaadam said:
Sorry, you're right it was Northern Railway.

I will upload the physical notice later tonight, when I am home. I also wish I knew about this forum earlier, I was only directed here today while checking old reddit threads.

It is in fact more than my concert tickets and journey combined. Additionally, I was fined for being unable to produce a ticket for the journey between the stations Deansgate and Preston. Taking this into account the ticket cost for Deansgate to Preston was minuscule in comparison to the fine.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jun 2026 ==

Understandable, I think I am now looking to see if there’s any point of contact within the Northern Railway team who can assist with getting the fine reduced as I’ve heard in some cases, or to figure out a payment plan as I cannot pay the fine right now.

If you can share a bit more information people can see what your options are.

But on the payment plan point these are not usually available, but you do need to know that non payment would mean this would escalate (likely some sort of court action against you) and that would then increase they money you’d have to pay.
So if you can, think about trusted friends or family who might be able to lend you what you need to pay it.

Any viable challenge people here can suggest would result in you getting that fine money back even if you paid it now.

furlong · 29 Jun 2026

Please fill in the gaps!
Did you collect the ticket(s) at Preston so you could show them on the train to Glasgow?
What precisely were those ticket(s) and how much did you pay?
In your appeals did you include a copy of the collected ticket?
Did you use a railcard? If so was it valid and in-date and did you show it at the time?
Please upload ALL the paperwork so far (covering up details that identify you) including the contents of your appeals and the responses.

There was a review into the way the railway handles situations like this over a year ago now and we are still waiting for its recommendations to be implemented, but needless to say it was clear that leniency ought to be shown when someone didn't realise they had to collect their ticket.

There are three methods of taking this further. One is as a customer support case with Northern. The next is with the help of an organisation called Transport Focus. The third is to use the media.

At this stage Transport Focus is likely to be the best option, referencing the review.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jun 2026 ==

Any Penalty Fare itself should only have been issued to the next station at which the train stopped unless you explicitly asked otherwise. So it's important to know the location / time of issue and what train you were on. If you were overcharged, that should have been raised in appeal, but it would still make it unenforceable (for not adhering to the regulations) so it might not be too late to present such an argument.

kyaadam · 29 Jun 2026

Mcr Warrior said:
Deansgate->Preston (Lancs) very likely to have been charged as £15.90 for an Anytime Day Single. Adding the £100.00 PF on top.

Yes this is the exact fine

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jun 2026 ==

Acathater said:
Is the penalty fare for the whole Deansgate - Glasgow journey or just Deansgate - Preston?
Seems strange that you weren't given the option of printing tickets at Preston for the Preston-Glasgow leg. Would still have left you liable for the Northern part of the journey but presumably would have been cheaper

No only Deansgate- Preston

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jun 2026 ==

AlterEgo said:
They are. Until recently, if a refundable ticket was not collected, 28 days later an automatic refund was issued. If it was an Advance however no refund is due.

Yeah i’ve now checked to see that it’s an advance ticket hence no refund

Acathater · 29 Jun 2026

kyaadam said:
Yes this is the exact fine

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jun 2026 ==

No only Deansgate- Preston

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jun 2026 ==

Yeah i’ve now checked to see that it’s an advance ticket hence no refund

So does it say on the penalty fare ticket where it was issued?
After you were given the penalty fare did the train stop anywhere else before Preston?

kyaadam · 29 Jun 2026

WesternLancer said:
If you can share a bit more information people can see what your options are.

But on the payment plan point these are not usually available, but you do need to know that non payment would mean this would escalate (likely some sort of court action against you) and that would then increase they money you’d have to pay.
So if you can, think about trusted friends or family who might be able to lend you what you need to pay it.

Any viable challenge people here can suggest would result in you getting that fine money back even if you paid it now.

Okay i’ve attached the penalty fare notice and my appeal responses

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jun 2026 ==

Acathater said:
So does it say on the penalty fare ticket where it was issued?
After you were given the penalty fare did the train stop anywhere else before Preston?

Yes it says issued at Leyland

gray1404 · 29 Jun 2026

When you were stopped by the inspector and asked for your ticket had the train departed Leyland yet?

kyaadam · 29 Jun 2026

The inspector stopped me before we arrived at Leyland. It took a little while to take down all my details and print the PFN, by the time this was done we had departed Leyland.

Mcr Warrior · 29 Jun 2026

Next stop after Leyland will be Preston, this for a Saturday journey that's called at Deansgate and is headed for Blackpool North.

thelongestroad · 29 Jun 2026

Shame the TE or RPI wasn't as enthusiastic about just issuing the TOD on their Star Mobile machine about fobbing off OP about appealing.

kyaadam · 29 Jun 2026

furlong said:
Please fill in the gaps!
Did you collect the ticket(s) at Preston so you could show them on the train to Glasgow?
What precisely were those ticket(s) and how much did you pay?
In your appeals did you include a copy of the collected ticket?
Did you use a railcard? If so was it valid and in-date and did you show it at the time?
Please upload ALL the paperwork so far (covering up details that identify you) including the contents of your appeals and the responses.

There was a review into the way the railway handles situations like this over a year ago now and we are still waiting for its recommendations to be implemented, but needless to say it was clear that leniency ought to be shown when someone didn't realise they had to collect their ticket.

There are three methods of taking this further. One is as a customer support case with Northern. The next is with the help of an organisation called Transport Focus. The third is to use the media.

At this stage Transport Focus is likely to be the best option, referencing the review.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jun 2026 ==

Any Penalty Fare itself should only have been issued to the next station at which the train stopped unless you explicitly asked otherwise. So it's important to know the location / time of issue and what train you were on. If you were overcharged, that should have been raised in appeal, but it would still make it unenforceable (for not adhering to the regulations) so it might not be too late to present such an argument.

I did not collect my ticket at Preston, I had around 15 minutes stopover time and using this time I tried to find a machine but I couldn’t locate any and the desks were all closed.

The tickets were 2 advance singles for the 2 legs of the journey, I’ve attached screenshots of them.

I didn’t use any railcards.

furlong · 29 Jun 2026

You should pursue this through Transport Focus.
Draw attention to the ORR's review, in particular paras 3.80-3.81

Additional areas for consideration
3.74 Beyond our recommendations, there are three other areas relating to retailing that we think would merit further consideration for action. The first two are areas that we did not have sufficient time to fully consider within the constraints of our review. The third is an issue that interacts with DfT’s consultation on rail reform.
...
Ticket fulfilment
3.80 We also found during our research and engagement that some passengers buying their tickets online (from a website or app) assume that their ticket would be fulfilled as a digital ticket. But some tickets must be collected from a TVM before travel. This was seen as counter-intuitive when the purchase was made online.
3.81 We suggest that further work is undertaken to understand how fulfilment requirements contribute to passengers travelling with an invalid ticket, what the key areas of confusion are, and what actions can be taken to address these.

The review is over a year old now, so it is legitimate to ask whether such actions have been taken and if not why not. In the mean time Transport Focus should be putting the appeals panels under pressure to take the findings into account - and indeed for the DfT to update the regulations accordingly.

[*] https://www.orr.gov.uk/independent-review-train-operators-revenue-protection-practices

Swedenorer · 29 Jun 2026

What was the date of the final appeal refusal?

WesternLancer · 29 Jun 2026

furlong said:
You should pursue this through Transport Focus.
Draw attention to the ORR's review, in particular paras 3.80-3.81

The review is over a year old now, so it is legitimate to ask whether such actions have been taken and if not why not. In the mean time Transport Focus should be putting the appeals panels under pressure to take the findings into account - and indeed for the DfT to update the regulations accordingly.

[*] https://www.orr.gov.uk/independent-review-train-operators-revenue-protection-practices

I think this is good advice

But I think 2 pertinent things

- In my view it's important for the OP to pay what is being demanded now (and in full) as otherwise this will escalate and this will not be good news costs wise for them. I realise this is not easy for the OP as they have indicated they have ready money to pay it (@kyaadam what I think will happen is if you do not pay this the sum will escalate and eventually court bailiffs will pursues you for the debt - by which time you could be looking at several hundred pounds being demanded from you - I'm not wanting to scaremonger you - I juts don't want you to have to pay even more than you are being asked for!

- I think the OP is going to need help from the forum in drafting a request to Transport Focus (TF) on how to make their case to TF in the strongest terms likely to achieve success.

@kyaadam has not uploaded the wording they used in their appeals at each stage but I rather suspect it was as many people would do and it was along the lines of 'this is not fair as I had bought a ticket I just didn't know I needed to print it off before hand' which as we know from experience isn't the sort of reasoning the Penalty Fares appeals assessors ever give any weight to.

furlong · 29 Jun 2026

kyaadam said:
I did not collect my ticket at Preston, I had around 15 minutes stopover time and using this time I tried to find a machine but I couldn’t locate any and the desks were all closed.

Last time I was there, the machines were opposite the desks - but they are probably the type that look like advertising screens unless you happen to know they also sell tickets.

You should still have collected the tickets - even at Glasgow.

How long prior to the journey did you make the purchase?

You haven't shared what you wrote in your appeal, but you need to identify why you weren't aware they had to be collected, to demonstrate, for example, that the retail process failed to make this unexpected requirement sufficiently prominent. In other words you shouldn't be penalised for not realising, but the fault lies with the industry for failing to make this requirement sufficiently clear before you bought the tickets. As such, you can refer to earlier parts of the ORR's review e.g. 12, 13, 23 and especially recommendation 2, 35(b).

Recommendation 2: Strengthen consistency in how passengers are treated when ticket issues arise
Passengers should be treated fairly and consistently when they are found without a valid ticket, with a focus on industry targeting intentional fare evasion as opposed to genuine mistakes and responding proportionately.
Train operators use a wide range of policies, approaches and legal powers that can lead to inconsistent treatment of passengers and sometimes unfair or disproportionate outcomes, where the scope for passengers to challenge this may be limited.

35. In considering this further, we recommend that the industry should establish a common framework for dealing with cases of ticket irregularities. This would include a set of consistent tools underpinned by clear principles, including for example:
...
(b)not penalising passengers where there is a ticket irregularity involving no risk of revenue loss;

Acathater · 29 Jun 2026

furlong said:
Last time I was there, the machines were opposite the desks - but they are probably the type that look like advertising screens unless you happen to know they also sell tickets.

they're in an area directly opposite the ticket office, off the main entrance. Avanti ones, so clearly obvious what they are. NOT confusing Northern ones

snail · 29 Jun 2026

I don't understand why Trainline would not issue etickets for this journey, even with a split at Preston, unless the OP ticked 'Collect from station' by mistake. I've used them for tickets to Preston and always got etickets as default.

What does it say in the email from Trainline confirming

the booking?

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Acathater said:
they're in an area directly opposite the ticket office, off the main entrance. Avanti ones, so clearly obvious what they are. NOT confusing Northern ones

There are also some I think at the top of the subway on P7. Neither location is immediately obvious if you are panicking over a connection but you do pass the ticket office entrance if exiting P1 over the bridge. There are usually RPIs on the bridge, who could point you to the machines.

Swedenorer · 29 Jun 2026

Pay now. Argue later. Whatever happens the PFN is now payable and will be pursued.

As the final appeal response indicates that you argued that you were unaware of the need to collect the tickets and rejected that ground it's hard to see what you can do apart from arguing the same way in the future.

The fact that this was not made clear to you is something you surely should take up with the retailer in the first instance.

kyaadam · 29 Jun 2026

furlong said:
You should pursue this through Transport Focus.
Draw attention to the ORR's review, in particular paras 3.80-3.81

The review is over a year old now, so it is legitimate to ask whether such actions have been taken and if not why not. In the mean time Transport Focus should be putting the appeals panels under pressure to take the findings into account - and indeed for the DfT to update the regulations accordingly.

[*] https://www.orr.gov.uk/independent-review-train-operators-revenue-protection-practices

WesternLancer said:
I think this is good advice

But I think 2 pertinent things

- In my view it's important for the OP to pay what is being demanded now (and in full) as otherwise this will escalate and this will not be good news costs wise for them. I realise this is not easy for the OP as they have indicated they have ready money to pay it (@kyaadam what I think will happen is if you do not pay this the sum will escalate and eventually court bailiffs will pursues you for the debt - by which time you could be looking at several hundred pounds being demanded from you - I'm not wanting to scaremonger you - I juts don't want you to have to pay even more than you are being asked for!

- I think the OP is going to need help from the forum in drafting a request to Transport Focus (TF) on how to make their case to TF in the strongest terms likely to achieve success.

@kyaadam has not uploaded the wording they used in their appeals at each stage but I rather suspect it was as many people would do and it was along the lines of 'this is not fair as I had bought a ticket I just didn't know I needed to print it off before hand' which as we know from experience isn't the sort of reasoning the Penalty Fares appeals assessors ever give any weight to.

Okay thanks for the advice, I’ll look into gathering the funds for the fine regardless of whether or not I draft a request to Transport Focus to avoid the fine increasing.

In terms of my appeal you are correct. I didn’t have much of a legal backing because it is true that I should have collected my ticket before hand. I was primarily trying to appeal to the fact that all other companions I was travelling with got an e-ticket automatically besides me, and because the ticket inspector had somewhat assured me these cases are easily appealed, especially as a first ever offence, I thought my appeal might’ve been successful on this basis but clearly not.

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Swedenorer said:
Pay now. Argue later. Whatever happens the PFN is now payable and will be pursued.

As the final appeal response indicates that you argued that you were unaware of the need to collect the tickets and rejected that ground it's hard to see what you can do apart from arguing the same way in the future.

The fact that this was not made clear to you is something you surely should take up with the retailer in the first instance.

Okay thanks for this advice

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jun 2026 ==

furlong said:
Last time I was there, the machines were opposite the desks - but they are probably the type that look like advertising screens unless you happen to know they also sell tickets.

You should still have collected the tickets - even at Glasgow.

How long prior to the journey did you make the purchase?

You haven't shared what you wrote in your appeal, but you need to identify why you weren't aware they had to be collected, to demonstrate, for example, that the retail process failed to make this unexpected requirement sufficiently prominent. In other words you shouldn't be penalised for not realising, but the fault lies with the industry for failing to make this requirement sufficiently clear before you bought the tickets. As such, you can refer to earlier parts of the ORR's review e.g. 12, 13, 23 and especially recommendation 2, 35(b).

Okay understood. Prior to buying the ticket there was no indication that it would be a physical ticket, but it does say so in my confirmation email after buying the ticket. And I bought my tickets over a month in advance from the journey.

Help! Fined for failure to collect physical ticket!

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