lrbvoyager
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I’m looking at flying to Split, Croatia in the summer with BA but can’t make my mind up on whether to fly with standard BA or BA Cityflyer. Which product is better?
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BA (LHR) or BA Cityflyer (LCY)
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Did LCY
Arriving at LCY is usually quick because not all flights are international, and many of those carry day trip business passengers.
* On very hot days, it may be necessary for off-loading a few passengers owing to the performance needed ro take off, so get there early enough to not be among the last boarders.
To split last year. Passage through the airport is generally a lot quicker than LHR or LGW and the Embraer E-190 is quite surprisingly good considering its size. Beware the the seat spacing is good except in the last few rows, (say rows 18-25), and with 2+2 seating, no middle seats. The take off from LCY can be quit exciting as it is the heaviest plane that can use the short runway/steep climb.*
Arriving at LCY is usually quick because not all flights are international, and many of those carry day trip business passengers.
* On very hot days, it may be necessary for off-loading a few passengers owing to the performance needed ro take off, so get there early enough to not be among the last boarders.
lrbvoyager
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Thank you! Think I will go with LCY!
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
Just to echo what everyone else has said, City Airport is so much nicer to use than Heathrow. Both security and passport control are quicker because City has a lot more business passengers who, by and large, know how to use an airport.
The Embraer E190s are nicer than the A319/320/321 used on BA mainline. And that's even after the densification of the E190s last year.
You also get a proper snack and an alcoholic drink on CityFlyer.
The Embraer E190s are nicer than the A319/320/321 used on BA mainline. And that's even after the densification of the E190s last year.
You also get a proper snack and an alcoholic drink on CityFlyer.
GRALISTAIR
Established Member
Good to know thanks. LCY is on my bucket list. I will be using this year.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
For arrivals into City, try and get a window seat on the right hand side of the plane if you can. It's pot luck if you get a westerly or an easterly arrival, but if you get lucky then the steep descent over The Shard and Canary Wharf is spectacular.
GRALISTAIR
Established Member
Thank you very much. I appreciate first hand advice/recommendations.
The prevailing wind over the UK is southwesterly, so a westerly arrival is most likely. City's runway is east/west like Heathrow; Heathrow is on westerly operations around 70% of the time.
I used to travel on business from LCY to Madrid in the noughties. Then, as City Connect BA was using RJ100 equipment (BAe 146 to oldies like me), which was ideal for the short runway and its steep take-off and landing flight paths with very quiet sound profiles to boot. With four engines, they felt very safe but had ridiculously small overhead stowage, just big enough for a brief case/laptop.
A couple of times, we managed to get from the entrance to plane set in about 10 minutes (with hold baggage), - still possible in about 20 minutes now at quieter times.
A couple of times, we managed to get from the entrance to plane set in about 10 minutes (with hold baggage), - still possible in about 20 minutes now at quieter times.
I read recently that BA had disposed of the A318s so they don't intend anything similar. Is it still possible to fly from Ireland to NYC as US domestic?
berneyarms
Established Member
US pre-clearance is the big USP for both Dublin and Shannon airports.
Shannon in particular is a doddle to travel through.
As above aside from the late departures all flights pre-clear in Dublin.
Those that do not will cause large messages to display telling you that if you try to book them.
AlastairFraser
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It's due to a few factors I believe.
1) Initially US airlines were only able to serve Shannon Airport, due to the Air Service Agreement between the RoI and the US stipulating this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon_Airport).
2) It's a convenient place for transferring between feeder short haul flights from lots of nearby European destinations to a transatlantic crossing, as it is probably one of the westernmost suitable airports in Europe, useful especially given the limitations of older generations of aircraft and the right wing dictatorships in power in Portugal/Spain until the 70s/80s.
A lot of the business transferred to Dublin, once technology improved and deregulation allowed expansion, but the remaining transatlantic routes are a legacy of the original reasons.
700007
Established Member
Without a doubt and I echo others' opinions on here that in a contest between LCY and LHR it will always be LCY as the winner. Smaller, easier, faster airport to use with the most amazing take off and landing views even better than Heathrow. I love Heathrow don't get me wrong but Heathrow depending on which direction you take off, sometimes you miss the capital and are too high up to see anything by the time you turn around. Heathrow is also slower and far busier to navigate. And City guarantees no middle seats. Also not all Heathrow terminals are the same, some are woeful (like T4).
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
Quite a few airlines (though not BA) are now using the Airbus A220 into City, and that does have middle seats.
I still fear that BA CityFlyer will replace their ageing E190s with A220s.
700007
Established Member
I think that's only on one side of the plane isn't it?
Why was I under the impression that E190s are fairly modern aircraft?
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Would be a major game changer if they get the certification. Potentially may also open up other airlines to fly further afield from LCY.
The short runway, steep departure angle and common wind direction changes all limit the real world range. The CityFlyer flights to Malaga, Greece etc. are never fully booked because of this.
It’s more of a question of allowing higher passenger loads on short routes, which ultimately allows for lower operating costs per passenger.
nlogax
Established Member
Absolutely. When I ask for a whisky I know they're always going to give me enough for a couple of extra drams once I get home.
700007
Established Member
So effectively you are saying that even if the A320neo was certified for LCY operations that in actual reality, the combination of the above would prevent flights to further afield (say Italy, Morocco or Eastern Europe?)
Reliablebeam
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I don't have much to add other than I've used Cityflyer a few times for business and leisure travel - it's markedly better than the BA 'Euro Traveller' (economy) product down the back - as per others I was pleasantly surprised to find they still offer bar service! The crews I've had have been quite experienced and on the ball, a bit of a surprise in some ways as I understand pay is significantly lower than BA mainline for cabin and pilots. If you are in Club Europe there's not really much difference in service - LCY has no lounge but does have some reasonable eating places. The approach /departure is great and well worth a window seat!
M y last flight from there on an E190 to Split was held because the temperature was high and they were asking for volunteers to be switched to LHR. After about an hour delay, the plane took off eastwards with a full load as the wind had swung around.
Pretty much, yes. I don't have any figures to say what the exact range would be but it would certainly be limited to well below the theoretical range of an A320neo.
For reference, under standard atmospheric conditions (nil wind and 20°), a fully loaded A320neo requires about 1800-2200m of runway. LCY's runway is only 1508m long.
I think a comparison with Florence is quite apt. It has a 1560m runway and fairly high terrain (the foothills of the Appenines) on the northern/eastern end. BA operate A320neos into there but a fair proportion of the time those flights have to divert to Pisa, basically whenever the wind or weather conditions are unfavourable. Meanwhile the biggest aircraft used by almost every other airline is an Embraer E195 and those generally don't struggle.
700007
Established Member
Really fascinating to read, I did not know this. Thank you for sharing!
So effectively I make of it that an airline wanting to operate A320neo into City would have two options; one is to run the A320neo on the same routes they currently run an A220/Embraer to sell more seats (and potentially lower ticketing price to customers but increase revenue at the same time) or two, to launch new further afield routes but likely deliberately only sell tickets for say only half of the plane (at a higher price, mind). Can't imagine that second option would be tempting but then again the clientele of LCY could potentially lean into the idea if the flight schedule/destination was a good selection. Perhaps you'd have to try make it more premium to justify the few flights sold as well (not saying you should, but in the same manner that BA1/2 were all business class).