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AWS fault discussion (relating to 810015 on 1B67 near Bedford)

bengley

bengley

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Report of collision Bedford (Elstow) - 19/06/26

Hearing reports of a collision between two trains at Bedford with one train now derailed
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yorkie said:
AWS fault as described earlier in the thread
Click to expand...

Indeed - the most common of which will be a 'Horn vice bell' which is a right side fault and does not require the driver to stop and report immediately - instead they should report at the first convenient opportunity.

The other types of failures are all 'wrong side' - Bell vice Horn (although the 810 would have likely been running on green signals, so this is unlikely) or no indication received at all - incredibly rare, but possible.

It could have also been a fault with the AWS on the train itself - possibly a TMS (Train Management System) fault indicating an issue or the AWS not cancelling when the driver tried to cancel it.

There are many scenarios but by far the most common one is the one I mentioned above and as I said there is no requirement to stop the train out of course to report that.
 
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Efini92

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bengley said:
Indeed - the most common of which will be a 'Horn vice bell' which is a right side fault and does not require the driver to stop and report immediately - instead they should report at the first convenient opportunity.

The other types of failures are all 'wrong side' - Bell vice Horn (although the 810 would have likely been running on green signals, so this is unlikely) or no indication received at all - incredibly rare, but possible.
It could have also been a fault with the AWS on the train itself - possibly a TMS (Train Management System) fault indicating an issue or the AWS not cancelling when the driver tried to cancel it.
There are many scenarios but by far the most common one is the one I mentioned above and as I said there is no requirement to stop the train out of course to report that.
Click to expand...
It’s also worth noting that the issue could actually be with the tms rather than the actual aws. Hitachi’s seem to be plagued with faults when entering into service.
The Neville hill collision was caused by the driver being distracted whilst trying multiple times to input data into the tms.
The 805’s had a spell of warning of a passenger door being open whilst travelling at speed.
 
D365

D365

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Efini92 said:
It’s also worth noting that the issue could actually be with the tms rather than the actual aws. Hitachi’s seem to be plagued with faults when entering into service.
Click to expand...
AWS/TPWS is always a separate subsystem with its own (electronic) control unit.
 
D365

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Doubleyellow said:
On newer trains the AWS/TPWS DMI (TI/F, BRR, etc) "indicator/buttons" are often presented on a TCMS based screen.
Click to expand...
Correct, but the control unit (in other words, the brain) is always a standalone item.
 
Fincra5

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Doubleyellow said:
On newer trains the AWS/TPWS DMI (TI/F, BRR, etc) "indicator/buttons" are often presented on a TCMS based screen.
Click to expand...
If the 810s follow the 800s (etc), the TWPS & AWS Equipment is separate from the DMI.
 
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800301

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Doubleyellow said:
You're right found this image here: https://www.therailwayhub.co.uk/72586/a-look-back-at-810-aurora-units-entering-service/

And circled the button/ indicators and sunflower in red
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Quite a few differences from the cab of a GWR 80X.

If there is a fault with the AWS it ‘should’ present it self on the TMS as a fault, the TMS knows if AWS/TPWS has been tripped

If that 810 was operating in ETCS mode the AWS sunflower would be on the DMI not that it would make any difference in how it operates
 
Fincra5

Fincra5

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800301 said:
Quite a few differences from the cab of a GWR 80X.

If there is a fault with the AWS it ‘should’ present it self on the TMS as a fault, the TMS knows if AWS/TPWS has been tripped

If that 810 was operating in ETCS mode the AWS sunflower would be on the DMI not that it would make any difference in how it operates
Click to expand...
Depends on the Fitment. The Hitachi fleet appear to operate with TPWS & AWS separate to the DMI (not STM). So even in Level NTC (AWS/TPWS) you won't necessary get the Sunflower displayed on the DMI.
On the Class 700/717 and 387 (GTR not HX) the TPWS & AWS are built into the DMI display (STM) and have no physical buttons or visuals.
 
D365

D365

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Fincra5 said:
Depends on the Fitment. The Hitachi fleet appear to operate with TPWS & AWS separate to the DMI (not STM). So even in Level NTC (AWS/TPWS) you won't necessary get the Sunflower displayed on the DMI.
On the Class 700/717 and 387 (GTR not HX) the TPWS & AWS are built into the DMI display (STM) and have no physical buttons or visuals.
Click to expand...
Correct. Class 66 is the same as Class 810 in that it uses a standalone TPWS DMI and AWS sunflower, despite the onboard ETCS implementation having been originally derived from Class 700.
 
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Doubleyellow

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The HEX class 387 uses the right hand side of the ETCS DMI for TPWS button/ indicators and sunflower in SN mode but the retained h/w button/indicators and sunflower during ETCS isolated/ standalone ETCS running.

Crossrail (Elizabeth line CL345) uses a TCMS based DMI for ETCS (including the TPWS indications/ buttons/ sunflower in LNTC TPWS and the CBTC indications in "LNTC" CBTC) [to my memory it doesn't have "standalone" TPWS since they went to full length units and recover in staff responsible or staff accountable (ETCS and CBTC ceiling speed enforced modes respectively)]
 
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