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BR Fares now selling itinerary-free tickets

800002

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I don't suppose it would ever be possible to provide for the Priv buyer (which such a heavy discount / high risk of abuse, given some folks persuasion to abuse a system when or where ever possible).

Excellent, though, for buying tickets with other users in mind.
A vast improvement from previous ways of working.
 
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Adam Williams

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I don't suppose it would ever be possible to provide for the Priv buyer
Technically possible? Absolutely, there are a whole host of ways in which you could do it - the best would be a single-sign on solution where RST Online acts as an Identity Provider (IdP) and permits staff to login to any online retailer (this is a problem universities solved 20 years ago, in 2006, for access to academic resources); but other approaches could work too, e.g. requiring the member of staff to scan the Aztec code on their RST-issued card before being able to book tickets.

It's contractually prohibited to retail Priv-discounted tickets in the third-party investor license though, so I would say it's not a technical problem. I do feel a bit bad for staff given how awful the user interface is on RST Online (sorry Worldline & any mixing deck fans) but I suppose it's better than not being able to book online at all.
 

800002

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I do feel a bit bad for staff given how awful the user interface is on RST Online (sorry Worldline & any mixing deck fans) but I suppose it's better than not being able to book online at all.
Is the main desire to avoid RST Online (but is more preferable then paperroll tickets issued over the counter at stations).

I thank you for your comments too.
 

plugwash

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This is really frustrating but thank you for explaining. Is there any reasoning behind this silliness? It's not as if there are old TfL gatelines in sunny Devon.
For e-tickets, since an e-ticket can be copied an unlimited number of times, it is entirely reliant on the scan database to prevent misuse. That is relatively simple for a single or return ticket, but much more more difficult for a ticket that is valid for unlimited journeys by the same person within a given time period. Rangers/rovers are arguably even worse than season tickets in this regard since, unlike season tickets, they are not tied to a photocard.

For ToD, I belive it's limitations in the ToD data format.
 
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Adam Williams

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It's not hard to do a bit of statistical analysis and conclude a pass has been misused if it's been scanned in two places within such a timeframe that would be impossible.

Of course, relies on staff to actually configure TTK properly so they're not writing junk into the eTVD system (you wouldn't believe how many guards seem to be in gate mode or on the wrong service).
 

Paul Kelly

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The destinations index (which is not the same as the origins index and has been renamed to station index) has been hidden.
Well spotted - this was an oversight when re-writing the home page. Now restored to have separate links for the origins and destinations index.
 

Farigiraf

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Great stuff BR Fares, finding a missing feature in online rail ticketing and capitalising upon it. The interface is simple and buying a ticket is rather straightforward. Trainsplit's getting competition! :)

Other posters have mentioned SailRail becoming easier - that's helpful. A number of bus-rail connection tickets (e.g. to Keswick or Ilfracombe) also now don't rely on the often outdated and buggy bus timetables in the route planning data to be available to buy online, though there are still a few tickets that can't be purchased, such as Cardiff to Ystradgynlais via Neath.
 

Adam Williams

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though there are still a few tickets that can't be purchased, such as Cardiff to Ystradgynlais via Neath
There is quite a bit of curation that's applied to the locations and tickets offered (it's not just the ones that the data says you can sell); e.g. there are some bus locations in the fares data where - in all practicality, you won't have any success actually having that ticket accepted. To date, this has been fairly conservative.

Definitely worth reaching out the BR Fares to provide feedback if you think there are obvious omissions that consistently work fine in practice if you buy from a TVM/ticket office, though.

Trainsplit's getting competition! :)
I think the two tools complement each other well and you would probably use each of them in different circumstances.
 

Farigiraf

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e.g. there are some bus locations in the fares data where - in all practicality, you won't have any success actually having that ticket accepted. To date, this has been fairly conservative.
Interesting - do you know if there's a list of practically useless bus-rail tickets? With the £3 cap, most of them are probably fairly useless, but it's still worth knowing.

I think the two tools complement each other well and you would probably use each of them in different circumstances.
Trainsplit's of course still useful for getting decent itineraries (inc. split ticketing) and buying advances, plus the local ticket office still gets some use for the occasional rover. But quite a few walk-up fares which require extensive use of the extra options tab on Trainsplit (e.g. Z 1-9 Travelcards or operator-specific niche fares) are now a lot easier via BRFares.
 

Vexed

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What are the rules on selling excesses online? Is this something possible?

I'd assume it's seen as too complicated and risks of misuse or a mistake inputting the original ticket details, so not allowed.
 

W-on-Sea

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This is a wonderful initiative - let's hope it is a success (and not closed down by GBR)
 

Haywain

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What are the rules on selling excesses online? Is this something possible?
It's only available at ticket offices. Online retailers can do refund and rebook but that won't necessarily get the same result.
 

MrJeeves

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What are the rules on selling excesses online?
They are not in the list of things prohibited for a Third Party Investor (Retailer) to sell under the license template from RDG, and are only listed until the list of products that Third Parties are not obliged to sell.

But no third parties do sell them, yet.
 

saismee

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Of course, relies on staff to actually configure TTK properly so they're not writing junk into the eTVD system (you wouldn't believe how many guards seem to be in gate mode or on the wrong service).
I would believe it. When a train-load of people come off the train and every ticket now displays 42 because the conductor has scanned in gate mode. Their name is attached to the scan so I always try to mention it when I see them. :)
 

Bungle965

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It's not hard to do a bit of statistical analysis and conclude a pass has been misused if it's been scanned in two places within such a timeframe that would be impossible.

Of course, relies on staff to actually configure TTK properly so they're not writing junk into the eTVD system (you wouldn't believe how many guards seem to be in gate mode or on the wrong service).
The worst culprits I have found have been Northern agency staff using Masabi devices!
 

[.n]

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Interesting - do you know if there's a list of practically useless bus-rail tickets? With the £3 cap, most of them are probably fairly useless, but it's still worth knowing.


Trainsplit's of course still useful for getting decent itineraries (inc. split ticketing) and buying advances, plus the local ticket office still gets some use for the occasional rover. But quite a few walk-up fares which require extensive use of the extra options tab on Trainsplit (e.g. Z 1-9 Travelcards or operator-specific niche fares) are now a lot easier via BRFares.
i must check but the bus-rail tickets still have value even with the £3 cap. I used to use them pretty much all the time, but its tricky when you can't buy them online and need to take the bus (that you're getting the ticket for) to the station


excellent news BR Fares does sell them for the route i care about (admittedly as TOD), so I will definitely be doing that
 

plugwash

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I think the two tools complement each other well and you would probably use each of them in different circumstances.
I think that is generally true, but I also think there are cases where trainsplit was previously the "least bad" option, but this site is better. In particular things like the "tfw+wmt" tickets.
 

Adam Williams

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I think that is generally true, but I also think there are cases where trainsplit was previously the "least bad" option, but this site is better. In particular things like the "tfw+wmt" tickets.
I think most journey planning sites will struggle with the TfW/WMT journeys, unfortunately, unless you implement some deliberate heuristics to try harder to surface them for routes where you know the benefit is there. They are "un-intuitive" itineraries, usually significantly slower than going basically any other way else (which means they're the first to get thrown out at the stage of identifying journey opportunities in most implementations) - and the rail industry financially penalises you for doing too many availability enquiries in general which discourages looking deeper.
 

plugwash

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Right, but on trainsplit I can say "give me a journey that only uses tfw and wmt" at which point the tickets in question will show up. Most other sites simply don't give me the option to do that.
 

devbel

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Wow - you seem to be able to buy SailRail walk ups without going to a ticket office!
Yes this is indeed possible, and unlike other sites which can book SailRail it doesn't need to find an itinerary. This is particularly useful for things like Belfast to places which can't be reached in a day from the only bus-connected ferry to Cairnryan (the 07:30). In these cases a break of journey is permitted according to the Conditions of Travel, but the normal sites don't seem smart enough to handle this and refuse to see to these places. Similarly in the other direction too, although I'm not sure if Stena will accept a SailRail ticket that is dated for the previous day and for whicih an overnight break of journey was the only option.

A problem though - BR Fares is only issuing tickets on departure so this is no good from the Irish end. This is not made clear on BR Fares when clicking 'buy'. Instead it states "ToD" and "Your tickets will need to be collected at a station before travel". This is a problem as (to the best of my knowledge) there is nowhere on the island of Ireland which can print a National Rail ticket (I think the last place was Stena Belfast terminal but they don't have a machine any more). So people will get confused by this and could turn up at an irish Rail or NI Railways or a ferry terminal and expect their ticket to be available. The wording needs to be changed - even better a postal option would be good. Even better again a QR code, but I will stop dreaming now!
 

CyrusWuff

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A problem though - BR Fares is only issuing tickets on departure so this is no good from the Irish end. This is not made clear on BR Fares when clicking 'buy'. Instead it states "ToD" and "Your tickets will need to be collected at a station before travel". This is a problem as (to the best of my knowledge) there is nowhere on the island of Ireland which can print a National Rail ticket (I think the last place was Stena Belfast terminal but they don't have a machine any more). So people will get confused by this and could turn up at an irish Rail or NI Railways or a ferry terminal and expect their ticket to be available. The wording needs to be changed - even better a postal option would be good. Even better again a QR code, but I will stop dreaming now!
I'm sure there used to be a note in Knowledgebase saying that SailRail tickets for journeys originating in Ireland shouldn't be sold through GB online/telesales retail channels to avoid that issue, but it's not present now.
 

Mainline421

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They are not in the list of things prohibited for a Third Party Investor (Retailer) to sell under the license template from RDG, and are only listed until the list of products that Third Parties are not obliged to sell.

But no third parties do sell them, yet.
Strange that Trainline never tried packaging one way change-of-route excesses, given that...
 
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MrJeeves

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Strange that Trainline never tried packaging one wau change-of-route excesses, given that...
I don't think there's any way to issue an excess in a ToD booking, and there's no E-Ticket format for an excess, so the only option left would be expensive postal fulfilment!
 

NormalPerson7

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This is a great feature.

One thing I have noticed though is that it doesn't appear to be possible to buy a Railcard minimum fare where one applies - e.g. Chester to Warrington anytime day return any permitted should be £12 with a 16-25 railcard for journeys before 10am*, but I can't see how to buy that.

*weekdays excluding July and August of course
 

Paul Kelly

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Can you share a screenshot? It should be £12 by default (unless you're searching on-the-day after 10am) and you need to click to confirm you're travelling after 10am to select the cheaper price:
yng-min-fare.png
 
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