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Darlington: use of the trainshed after the improvements

MarkyT

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But yes in theory once the new platforms open there will only really be a need for one platform in the existing train shed, AIUI the current P1 will be used for Northbound services rather than the existing P4 - no reason why they couldn't alternate between the two I suppose - at the very least the extra through platform will be useful during disruption. P2 and P3 have always been a bit unloved tbh but will continue to be used by Northern stock overnight I'd imagine. I wonder if there could be any scope for increasing trains to Bishop as a result of the layout change, you could pretty much have a self-contained shuttle going back and forth to/from P4 to bolster the service up to every 30 mins - whether there'd be the demand for it is another conversation.
Looking at a ~year-old Modern Railways article, the new layout retains the existing double junction, with diamond crossing, to the south of the station, which routes down main arrivals towards platform #1 #4. With up mainline trains generally moving out of the train shed, Teeside trains can continue to arrive in or depart from platform #4 #1, or the south bays, in parallel with such a down arrival if necessary, and now far less hindered by frequent up expresses, which will move to the new platform #5, outside the train shed to the east of the up main.

While the branch trains will still need to cross main line stopping traffic if using #4 #1, whether terminating or running through to Teeside, they will be able to do so in two separate movements through the north and south junctions, either side of the station stop, each only interacting with one (stopping) mainline direction at a time. That's easier to path than securing a margin across both mains at the same time, especially under real-time running conditions.

Signalled passenger moves from down main south to #4 #1 and the south bays will remain, though, as now, will require crossing over to the up main first for a short distance due to existing layout constraints. As these will likely be fairly infrequent or less critical movements, that continued limitation is likely acceptable. Platform #4 #1 could become a useful reversing location for any new mainline local services terminating from the north, as the double ladder junction used currently for up expresses to weave over into the trainshed at the north end will remain, allowing an up local arrival to run into #4 #1 at the same time as a down departure from #1 #4 to the north.

Edit: Oh dear, I got confused by the new platform numbers into thinking they'd be in a consistent sequence across the layout with the old ones! All references to #1 and #4 transposed.
 
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Halifaxlad

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Post improvements: does P4 still need to be a through platform ?

If not it could be converted into two turnbacks allowing a step free or ramp free direct access to be created from the West Side of the station.

The covered car park could make a nice concourse/welcoming gateway to the station like York is.
 

MarkyT

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Post improvements: does P4 still need to be a through platform ?

If not it could be converted into two turnbacks allowing a step free or ramp free direct access to be created from the West Side of the station.

The covered car park could make a nice concourse/welcoming gateway to the station like York is.
Aside from branch operations, platform #1 will also be useful as a backup through platform for mainline services, particularly for up trains if new #5 is out of action temporarily. It would also be usable in the down direction with the wiggle via the up main. A future larger south junction renewal could provide an opportunity to reconfigure for a non conflicting down run-in, so #1 could become a more flexible middle bi-di platform. Note, terminating Tees trains will be able to use the new south bay #6, along part of the back face of the new up through platform #5; these movements will not interact with mainline traffic at all.

edit: #1 and #4 references corrected.
 
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Zomboid

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Note terminating Tees trains will be able to use the new south bay #6, along part of the back face of the new up through platform #5; these movements will not interact with mainline traffic at all
Is there going to be an independent track to the junction, then? Would certainly make sense, but if it's to be fully deconflitcted and accessible from both the main and branch that could add a lot of infrastructure.
 

MarkyT

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Is there going to be an independent track to the junction, then? Would certainly make sense, but if it's to be fully deconflitcted and accessible from both the main and branch that could add a lot of infrastructure.
According to the MR article, the new 6-car non-electrified east side south bay platform #6 will connect independantly with the Saltburn line only, with no mainline conflict or access. There are a few extra turnouts in the south junction, and the Smithfield Road underbridge is adapted to accommodate a wider formation. The new up through platform #5 loop track is on the site of the former goods loop, which is relocated north of the station.
 

Zomboid

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That makes sense, there's already two south facing bays with access to the ECML and Saltburn lines, so another would probably be superfluous.

Would be good to electrify 2/3/6 though, that'll probably be useful for BEMUs in due course.
 

MarkyT

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That makes sense, there's already two south facing bays with access to the ECML and Saltburn lines, so another would probably be superfluous.

Would be good to electrify 2/3/6 though, that'll probably be useful for BEMUs in due course.
The MR article mentions aspirations for hydrogen trains for local services in the area, and equipping the new platform for them. Assuming they'll be able to leave a depot in the morning with a full day of fuel already on board, they're not going to be filling up at the platform. Diesel has always been considered too dangerous and dirty for that, so I can't see platform refuelling of hydrogen being acceptable. I think it's far more likely batteries will prove a better solution for local service decarbonisation, which will need charging facilities of some kind, most likely additional lengths of 25kV OHLE, especially at turnback platforms and sidings, fairly easy to achieve where other lines and platforms at the same stations are already electrified.
 

Scotrail88

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Is there any maps of the current speeds and new speeds through junctions?
the timetable seems to be holding not too bad without the current set up shours only improve post opening
 

zwk500

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Is there any maps of the current speeds and new speeds through junctions?
the timetable seems to be holding not too bad without the current set up shours only improve post opening
From the Periodic Operating Notice published on NR's website:
1774619558707-png.201205

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/indus...ators/national-electronic-sectional-appendix/ (scroll down to the bottom)
 

Gwr12345

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Its obviously far too late to say this, but I'm not a fan at all of what's happening to Darlington.
I feel the new platform is going to turn the existing trainshed into a ghost station, and the new facilities are a bit pointless.
They've invested millions of pounds into building a new concourse, on the wrong side of the station, as well as altering some of its heritage features.
The new platforms also just aren't in keeping with the existing station at all. What actual benefit does Darlington get from these plans?
 

swt_passenger

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The new platforms also just aren't in keeping with the existing station at all. What actual benefit does Darlington get from these plans?
A significant reduction in conflicting crossing moves, ie up direction long distance stopping trains will no longer have to cross the northbound through line twice. Local trains reversing at Darlington in P6 will no longer join the ECML at all, so will not conflict at all.
 

edwin_m

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All the northbound trains will still pass through the shed.

One point of view is that this isn't about Darlington at all. A few years ago most trains stopped there, so the line was to some extent operated as a double track through the shed and the Mains weren't used much. Sometimes a Down freight would run through the shed to avoid conflicting with an Up stopping train at one end or the other. Now that Up trains can stop without touching the Down Main, it becomes easier to schedule non-stop trains for faster journeys to and from further north.
 

brad465

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All the northbound trains will still pass through the shed.

One point of view is that this isn't about Darlington at all. A few years ago most trains stopped there, so the line was to some extent operated as a double track through the shed and the Mains weren't used much. Sometimes a Down freight would run through the shed to avoid conflicting with an Up stopping train at one end or the other. Now that Up trains can stop without touching the Down Main, it becomes easier to schedule non-stop trains for faster journeys to and from further north.
Yes pre-covid it was only the Flying Scotsman that skipped Darlington IIRC, or at most a few services a day. Now LNER skip it hourly on Edinburgh expresses in both directions, plus Lumo services as well, so reducing that conflict has become more important.
 

MarkyT

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All the northbound trains will still pass through the shed.

One point of view is that this isn't about Darlington at all. A few years ago most trains stopped there, so the line was to some extent operated as a double track through the shed and the Mains weren't used much. Sometimes a Down freight would run through the shed to avoid conflicting with an Up stopping train at one end or the other. Now that Up trains can stop without touching the Down Main, it becomes easier to schedule non-stop trains for faster journeys to and from further north.
And it means platform 1 becomes a flexible facility between the regular ones for up and down traffic. It will be able to handle the through Bishop Auckland branch services to and from Middlesbrough with much less conflict, and accommodate an up or down mainline service should one of the other platforms be blocked temporarily, or for a planned or reactive reversal. The ability to block a platform more easily at quiet times will allow maintenance and repair work to be carried out more readily around the station.

Overall it's an extremely positive scheme operationally and will only get better if further tweaks are applied at the south junction to deliver even more flexibility, namely replacing the switched diamond with two turnouts so a direct mainline run in from the south to #1 or the train shed bays can take place at the same time as a southbound mainline departure or through fast movement (the current layout needs a wiggle via the up main to get to these platforms).
 
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VT 390

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Does anyone know why the Bishop Auckland to Saltburn service is not being split at Darlington to reduce conflicting moves further?
This would appear to be an obvious change to implement as it is the only service which will cross everything. The new bay platform having a half hourly Saltburn service with an hourly shuttle service operating Darlington to Bishops Stortford, as this journey is around 25 minutes it could be provided with a single unit and as it would be mostly isolated from the ECML having short turn arounds at each end should not be much of an issue.
 

Cach17

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Its obviously far too late to say this, but I'm not a fan at all of what's happening to Darlington.
I feel the new platform is going to turn the existing trainshed into a ghost station, and the new facilities are a bit pointless.
They've invested millions of pounds into building a new concourse, on the wrong side of the station, as well as altering some of its heritage features.
The new platforms also just aren't in keeping with the existing station at all. What actual benefit does Darlington get from these plans?
Not everything revolves around aesthetics. Operationally there is significant benefit, since southbound ECML/Saltburn trains no longer conflict with the hourly limited stop KGX-EDB service. Likewise, terminating trains to/from Saltburn no longer interfere with ECML services.
 

MarkyT

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Does anyone know why the Bishop Auckland to Saltburn service is not being split at Darlington to reduce conflicting moves further?
This would appear to be an obvious change to implement as it is the only service which will cross everything. The new bay platform having a half hourly Saltburn service with an hourly shuttle service operating Darlington to Bishops Stortford, as this journey is around 25 minutes it could be provided with a single unit and as it would be mostly isolated from the ECML having short turn arounds at each end should not be much of an issue.
It's also an established useful local service to Teesside. I think cutting the branch back to Darlington would be difficult politically, and uneccessary. The advantage of the newly revised layout is it splits the branch use of the station into two separate movements across the mainline flows, with the train dwelling in the middle platfrom #1. Hence planners, and signaller in real time, don't have to find a clear margin across both mainline directions at the same time. I think that makes it manageable, certainly more so than before the new east side facilities for up trains were envisaged.
 

ainsworth74

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New platforms will be brought into use coinciding with the May TT change
Drat! I'm away that day so can't visit on the first day of service. Though I suppose the new bay won't actually see that much action on day one as on a Sunday only the hourly Bishop service runs on Sunday's! There's a few things that terminate in the existing bay platforms that could use it though (the out and back to Hartlepool for instance).

Will need to make plans to visit on Monday!

It's also an established useful local service to Teesside. I think cutting the branch back to Darlington would be difficult politically, and uneccessary.

This is, as far as I'm aware, the main reason it got killed off as an idea. You could easily use on of the old through platforms as basically a "bay" platform for Bishop Auckland with the other retained for the northbound services. But splitting the Bishop service (which does have reasonable if not extensive through traffic) particularly now that it's quite a hike to get to the other side I think saw this being considered a political non-starter. Operationally it makes a lot of sense (and I still reckon will happen some day).

There might also have been a bit a missing crossover somewhere at the southern end that meant it was a bit tricky. I'm sure I read a plan that had P1 (the current southbound platform) being used for northbound services whilst P4 (the current northbound platform) would become dedicated to Bishop most of the time but obviously available if needed. You can arrive from the south into P1 but I think it's sub-optimal with the current layout.
 
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There might also have been a bit a missing crossover somewhere at the southern end that meant it was a bit tricky. I'm sure I read a plan that had P1 (the current southbound platform) being used for northbound services whilst P4 (the current northbound platform) would become dedicated to Bishop most of the time but obviously available if needed. You can arrive from the south into P1 but I think it's sub-optimal with the current layout.
At the moment to get to any of the ‘Old’ bays (P2/3) or P1 from the South means blocking ANY Soutbound departures as the route from Down Main to P1/2/3 requires using the Up Main for a bit.

An additional piece of pointwork allowing access to P1 Northbound without blocking the Up Main would be very beneficial imo
 

ainsworth74

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At the moment to get to any of the ‘Old’ bays (P2/3) or P1 from the South means blocking ANY Soutbound departures as the route from Down Main to P1/2/3 requires using the Up Main for a bit.

An additional piece of pointwork allowing access to P1 Northbound without blocking the Up Main would be very beneficial imo
Yes that's the one I was thinking of! Thank you! Agreed the additional point work to allow that move would be extremely useful in my opinion also.
 

feldom76

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Now that the new up platform is open and in use, how are the old platforms 1 and 4 going to be used. It seems to me that platform 1 will become the new down platform leaving the old platform 4 redundant. Would this mean that the whole western side of Bank Top station would be surplus to requirements? I believe it is a listed building so it can't be demolished. Take out the track and the platform for a massive car park, maybe?
Progress I guess but tinged with sadness as I spent my train-spotting days (around 1960) at the south end of platform 1.

Cheers Mike
 

zwk500

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Platform 4 will continue to be the main down platform as the layout at the south end still requires down trains to cross to the Up main before accessing Platform 1.

Platform 1 will remain for use during engineering works, disruption, or if trains are entering/exiting the Up sidings at the same time. There's several daily booked moves for Up trains to use platform 1. (3N00 terminates and returns to Newcastle as 1N00, 1V54, 9M11, 9M16, 2A55 terminates and shunts empty to 2 for stabling). A handful of Down trains are also booked to use platform 1, possibly for platform reoccupation.

Platforms 2 and 3 are used for overnight stabling so are remaining as well.
 
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swt_passenger

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Now that the new up platform is open and in use, how are the old platforms 1 and 4 going to be used. It seems to me that platform 1 will become the new down platform leaving the old platform 4 redundant. Would this mean that the whole western side of Bank Top station would be surplus to requirements? I believe it is a listed building so it can't be demolished. Take out the track and the platform for a massive car park, maybe?
Progress I guess but tinged with sadness as I spent my train-spotting days (around 1960) at the south end of platform 1.

Cheers Mike
This was discussed last autumn in the speculation forum, (threads now merged), but the simple answer as @zwk500 just mentioned is that down trains cannot easily reach P1.
 
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feldom76

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I didn't understand why down trains had to use the up main to get into P1, until I realised that what I thought was back to back points is in fact a live frog crossing. A bit more problematic to reconstruct this junction within the space available.

Cheers
 

yorksrob

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The local Middlesbrough service (from I assume Bishop Aukland) used platform 1 when I was there.
 

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