H&I
Member
Do we know if the ribbon cutting is going to be Monday or Tuesday? Thanks!
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TfW class 398 Stadler Citylink tram trains
- Thread starter Bob Price
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trainspotter4
Member
Some photos from today's test runs show 398024 and 398028 without their awful yellow bumper stickers, maybe the lights are finally sorted out, they do seem closer than ever to service!
tfw756rider
On Moderation
Can you share these photos please?
chargesmith
Member
I noticed at Trehafod station today that alongside the 3-4 car stop boards for the FLIRTs they now have a separate 3 car and 6 car stop boards ready for the 398s - I haven't seen this elsewhere on the network so suspect they are quite new.
nigelsporne
Member
Does a 398 have enough power to cut a ribbon or will it be derailed??
chargesmith
Member
They never did ribbon cutting ceremonies for the 197s or 231/756so I doubt this is a serious post, I'll believe it when I see it.
I would however expect a big ceremony for the last one in service, as that would be the end of a complete transformation of TFWs fleet, they've come a long way since 2020 when the Pacers were still on the Valley Lines...
Cardiff123
Established Member
Yes with a "feels like" temperature of 39 degrees on Thursday. If a red weather warning is issued later in the week, then why risk it?
VR494
Member
There’s two units rumoured to go, they’ve had a lot of modifications I’ve been informed today.
The service was due to commence earlier than Tuesday, but due to the HVAC in the saloon only being able to provide a temperature -3 lower of the outside air temperature, they delayed it for the planned heatwave. It’s not good at all.
It’s now forecast to be warm all week, and it will be very hot on them. On training the saloons have been averaging 27-28C in the last heatwave. The cabs are very cool though.
There’s still plenty of faults with them so the trial next week will be interesting to watch.
chargesmith
Member
Will have to wait and see. There's no reason why they wouldn't run as they'll be designed to work in those temperatures, but I am always reminded of the GWR IETs where the first unit was only in service a short time before the AC units started leaking.
There's always a risk that something happens that wasn't exposed in testing and hot weather will put extra pressure on systems and on the humans running the services.
Envoy
Established Member
- Joined
- 29 Aug 2014
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How come they provided air con for the drivers’ cab but can only cool the passenger area to 3C below the outside temperature? Fat lot of use that will be when the temperature is 30C plus next week. Even when it is 20C outside, the train will be like a greenhouse.
No different to any other train with air con isn't it?
I seem to recall the Hitachi fleets aircon does something similar and only cools the carriages to a couple of degrees less than the outside temp?
chargesmith
Member
Pretty sure we debunked that rumour. There is AC in both the cabin and the cab according to Stadlers info sheet.
What would be the point of trying to cool the carriages any more than that when you're going to be opening all the doors every five or ten minutes? They don't do it in Malaga or Alicante, so there's absolutely no reason to attempt it here.
chargesmith
Member
Clearly states AC in cabin and cabs.
Train AC is fighting the heat from a metal box, that has windows letting heat portray through, as well as people's body heat and also heat coming in when doors are opened. So it will be fighting hard to cool the carriage.
If you had air con in your house and constantly opened the front and back door you'd soon notice it wasn't as effective.
You also dont want people being overcooled then walking off the train into high temperatures and shocking the body.
VR494
Member
They are very warm inside the saloons, as you say the huge windows does not help in hot temperatures. The driver's sun blind is also poor and lets through plenty of light!
They have not specified the same sort of HVAC on those in Europe - such Spain for example. This was to keep the cost down on the units with the primary focus being one the cab. A simple system to provide a stable temperature in a moderate climate is in the saloon. If they wanted supercooled air in the saloon they could have paid for it, but it mostly rains here and temperatures are around 10-15C on average.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
I used to get exhausted by the temperature change when I left the office on a very hot day. its the difference in temperature that is unpleasant and the office was cooled to absolute perfection so I was not acclimatised to anything that was five or so degrees Centigrade warmer when I went out into the real world !.
I find on trains and planes there is a risk they are too cold if I have turned up wearing shorts and a T-shirt on a hot day. I have to remember to take an extra layer with me just because someone else wants a normal non-hot-day temperature inside.
To be fair there is a range in what people find comfortable temperature wise and so there will never be a one size fits all. Better to economically create an environment that is the least unbearable. This really could be like the seats arguments - a matter of taste.
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the GWR 800 fleet can be actively cold even when it’s over 30 outside, some serious power in the aircon. They have the advantage of less frequent stops and vestibules however
Having been on buses and metros in many hotter places than south Wales I can confirm this isn't true. What probably is true is that the AC is not specified to be powerful enough to deal with the conditions that are forecast this week. And that's a sensible cost/benefit decision
norbitonflyer
Established Member
Airconditioning started to become common in UK offices only when we started to become reliant on electronics, as hardware performance deteriorates in heat and high humidity even faster than humans ("wetware") do.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Oh, interesting and makes sense. It does seem a new thing that we in the UK expect air conditioning whereas in other parts of the world it is far more "essential". So newer trains like the 398s have to be ready for an event that seldom happens.
Envoy
Established Member
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Hopefully we will soon be able to try them out and no better time than during the heatwave. Obviously, people wearing thin clothes during the heatwave do not not want to bring jumpers because the transport is too cold.
I note that Cardiff bus drivers seem pretty ignorant about working the air con in their newer buses and often have the windows open. They just don't get it that the windows should be closed and the fan on to send it through the cooler. Hopefully TFW staff are better trained.
I note that Cardiff bus drivers seem pretty ignorant about working the air con in their newer buses and often have the windows open. They just don't get it that the windows should be closed and the fan on to send it through the cooler. Hopefully TFW staff are better trained.
Cardiff123
Established Member
Heatwaves in Britain are no longer rare events. Every summer we have at least one heatwave, and those heatwaves are getting hotter and longer. So new trains absolutely should have air conditioning that can handle hotter temperatures.
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norbitonflyer
Established Member
I nortice that 2B06 is cancelled tomorrow and the diagram starts with a unit coming up to Cardiff from Barry.
Still on for Tuesday though, at the time of writing
Still on for Tuesday though, at the time of writing
Indeed. Plus we live in a humid country. The air con in my car kicks in nine months of the year. It absolutely is essential for any form of vehicle nowadays.
Tram Inn SB
Member
First 398 into passenger traffic tomorrow (Tuesday) on a AM only Bay to QS shuttle, the PM services to be a 150.
The change of plan presumably being that (for a reason that TfW is unwilling to share) due to the hot weather the Bay service is going back to running as a shuttle service this week.
From https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service-disruptions/tf-w-hot-weather-20260621/, due to the forecast hot weather:
H&I
Member
Do you know what the timings are? Thanks!