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Hi Everyone, I was caught using my son’s 5-10 zip card on Thursday 11th June travelling from Swiss Cottage station to Victoria. The revenue enforcement officer asked me what card. I had used to sign out at the Victoria station. I showed him the card as he had seen my tap out with the card.
Next, he asked me why I was using a child’s card to travel. I panicked and lied that I was in a hurry and had forgotten to tap a valid card for my travel. He then proceeded to ask for my details which I did provide correctly. He read me a statement saying ‘whatever you say will be used against you in the court’ and I said I understood. He then told me that I didn’t need to stay as I had earlier told him that I was in a rush.
He had said that a letter will be sent which I’ve received today. I’d also want to come clear that I had used this card multiple times (around 31 times). I do realize that this is a serious offence and I should not have done this. I also realize that I’m failing as a parent too as my son was with me when Thai incident happened.
I did reach out to a solicitor who has advised me how to proceed. But, he has said that my chances of not getting prosecuted are less than 50%. The cost of getting a doctor’s letter seems prohibitive to me as I already have a significant amount of debt. On the other hand, my life will get completely ruined if I get a conviction. I might get fired and my wife will definitely divorce me (we were having issues in our marriage earlier to this incident too). I’m at a loss at what to do? I know I’ve cheated and am extremely ashamed of it. I don’t know how can I be this stupid. I need help. I’m the only working member in the family and if I lose my job it will be a financial disaster for us. Here’s a copy of the letter I’ve received.
There's not a lot we can add other than what the solicitor said tbh. I would just encourage you to stop catastrophising this. The vast majority of jobs you are not going to get fired for this so long as you up front with them (and you may not even need to tell them - read your employment contract). Even if it were one of those jobs (and I'd challenge you to name one) then other jobs are available. No one is going to divorce anyone else for a fare evasion conviction; if your wife does divorce you then this will be the straw that broke the camel's back and there would have been some other reason.
My advice would be non-legal: accept that you're getting the conviction and try to take this opportunity to make steps towards repairing your relationship by somehow facing this together as a couple. Perhaps attend court together and she might be impressed with how you present your mitigation to the magistrates. In practice this will make no difference at all to the result, but carrying it off confidently with her assistance may bring you closer together. If nothing else, it will at least give you better and worthier things to think about. Good luck!
There's not a lot we can add other than what the solicitor said tbh. I would just encourage you to stop catastrophising this. The vast majority of jobs you are not going to get fired for this so long as you up front with them (and you may not even need to tell them - read your employment contract). Even if it were one of those jobs (and I'd challenge you to name one) then other jobs are available. No one is going to divorce anyone else for a fare evasion conviction; if your wife does divorce you then this will be the straw that broke the camel's back and there would have been some other reason.
My advice would be non-legal: accept that you're getting the conviction and try to take this opportunity to make steps towards repairing your relationship by somehow facing this together as a couple. Perhaps attend court together and she might be impressed with how you present your mitigation to the magistrates. In practice this will make no difference at all to the result, but carrying it off confidently with her assistance may bring you closer together. If nothing else, it will at least give you better and worthier things to think about. Good luck!
Thanks a lot for your kind reply. Perhaps, I’m over-reacting about getting fired from the job. You are also spot on about other issues in my relationship, which I did allude to in my post. Let me sleep over it, if I can and decide tomorrow if I want to spend a ton of money on this or not. Thanks again.
As a general rule TfL nearly always prosecute these cases of repeated abuse. They prosecuted nearly 15,000 last year alone.
There are only ever two outcomes to being reported for prosecution by TfL. You get either:
- a warning letter (very rare when passes have been abused), or
- prosecuted under the TfL Bylaws in the Magistrates' Court (nearly all cases), and you will be fined according to your income, have to repay the fares, pay TfL's costs and also a surcharge.
- you had a disability or mental health condition at the time of the offence, and that
1) the circumstances of your health are so severe that a conviction would be utterly disproportionate and not in the public interest, or
2) the circumstances of your health are the reason, or a contributing factor, in your decision to evade fares
You need satisfactory medical proof from a medical expert in the relevant field, so a diagnosis letter is good, but a letter from a consultant for example explaining either of 1) or 2) above is ideal.
Without wishing to prejudge any case, we do find that most people decide they have some sort of medical mitigation, but in truth it may not necessarily meet the standards outlined in 1) or 2), so you should think carefully about whether it is relevant to the facts of the case. As you have had a consultation with a solicitor and that, even with their help, the chances are apparently less than 50/50, you are obviously not in a good position and it may be better to accept that it is very likely you will be convicted of the offence.
As a general rule TfL nearly always prosecute these cases of repeated abuse. They prosecuted nearly 15,000 last year alone.
There are only ever two outcomes to being reported for prosecution by TfL. You get either:
- a warning letter (very rare when passes have been abused), or
- prosecuted under the TfL Bylaws in the Magistrates' Court (nearly all cases), and you will be fined according to your income, have to repay the fares, pay TfL's costs and also a surcharge.
- you had a disability or mental health condition at the time of the offence, and that
1) the circumstances of your health are so severe that a conviction would be utterly disproportionate and not in the public interest, or
2) the circumstances of your health are the reason, or a contributing factor, in your decision to evade fares
You need satisfactory medical proof from a medical expert in the relevant field, so a diagnosis letter is good, but a letter from a consultant for example explaining either of 1) or 2) above is ideal.
Without wishing to prejudge any case, we do find that most people decide they have some sort of medical mitigation, but in truth it may not necessarily meet the standards outlined in 1) or 2), so you should think carefully about whether it is relevant to the facts of the case. As you have had a consultation with a solicitor and that, even with their help, the chances are apparently less than 50/50, you are obviously not in a good position and it may be better to accept that it is very likely you will be convicted of the offence.
Thanks a lot for the detailed response. I do agree that the solicitor said chances are less than 50/50. I’m worried about what other spheres of life might get impacted by the conviction.. mortgage eligibility, rents prospects etc on top of the earlier worries I shared in my post earlier. That is the reason why I contacted a solicitor in the first place. But, thanks again for giving a clear opinion.
And it's worth pointing out they rarely prosecute situations like this as the serious offence of fraud. Rather they normally only prosecute an offence of not having a ticket on the one occasion you were caught red-handed, handled in a way that doesn't even require that you did it deliberately (so it's generally not treated as a finding of dishonesty). Instead of prosecuting you for all the other occasions, they simply invite you to admit to the court to doing the same thing other times and this is taken into account when deciding how much money you have to pay, but you're left with only a single minor criminal conviction.
And it's worth pointing out they rarely prosecute situations like this as the serious offence of fraud. Rather they normally only prosecute an offence of not having a ticket on the one occasion you were caught red-handed, handled in a way that doesn't even require that you did it deliberately (so it's generally not treated as a finding of dishonesty). Instead of prosecuting you for all the other occasions, they simply invite you to admit to the court to doing the same thing other times and this is taken into account when deciding how much money you have to pay, but you're left with only a single minor criminal conviction.
Thanks for your detailed reply. It is a good news for me that this offence is not considered serious offence of fraud. I might just reply back admitting what I’ve done and see what they say. I know it is not relevant and will sound like I’m making excuses but I’ve already been treated for depression twice in the past and this episode seems like pushing me again the same direction. I know it is my own fault but am extremely stressed. Thanks again.
I think there are some other threads where the OP has talked through the process of going to court - would someone be able to find these as they might reassure the OP here?
I think there are some other threads where the OP has talked through the process of going to court - would someone be able to find these as they might reassure the OP here?
Thanks for your detailed reply. It is a good news for me that this offence is not considered serious offence of fraud. I might just reply back admitting what I’ve done and see what they say.
I'm not sure I would do this pro actively - there is no great benefit for doing this from your point of view
If they escalate it to prosecution then you can plead guilty and the fine is refunded by a proportion for submitting an early plea of that nature - that is at least a tangible benefit at some level
I know it is not relevant and will sound like I’m making excuses but I’ve already been treated for depression twice in the past and this episode seems like pushing me again the same direction. I know it is my own fault but am extremely stressed. Thanks again.
Sorry to hear this. Might be worth you checking in with your GP - and telling TfL that along with something from your GP if they will provide evidence of previous ill health condition might just carry some weight with TfL perhaps
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I think there are some other threads where the OP has talked through the process of going to court - would someone be able to find these as they might reassure the OP here?
Yes, I have copied these here for @NeverAgain - if it gets to court this is helpful stuff posted by experts on here which would help you understand what would happen in this scenario (but often these are dealt with via the SJPN process, which is paper based and does not involve going to court in person)
Here we are: an informative TfL case With outcome at court from the person concerned - there are plenty of other cases involving TfL on the forum but not so many where the person concerned reports back on what happened as clearly as this person did:
When attending court, you should bring with you copies of all paperwork you have received, and a form MC100 income and expenditure form. If there is anything on paper that you will want to give the court, such as a statement, you must have six copies of each document:
Three for the magistrates
one for the legal advisor
one for the prosecution
one for yourself
It is strongly recommended to dress formally. Where possible, gentlemen should wear a dark suit, tie, and formal shoes, and ladies should wear a suit with jacket, a formal top and skirt/trousers, or a dress, nothing too revealing, formal shoes and tights or similar should be worn. Jeans, trainers, open-toed shoes, anything bright, gaudy, or with slogans of any sort should be avoided.
At the court, you should make sure to arrive in good time before the time indicated on your summons. You will need to pass through security checks, which will typically include a walk-through metal detector and a bag search. Certain items are prohibited – check the Courts Service website.
Most courthouses have a number of courtrooms. You will need to check a noticeboard to see which courtroom your case has been assigned to. Staff can point this out. Speak to staff to identify yourself as a defendant.
You will probably have a fair bit of waiting around to do. Bring a book/magazine. You can use your phone whilst waiting in the court building but it should be on silent/do not disturb when in the court room itself.
When you are called into the courtroom, staff will indicate where you need to go. Do not sit down until invited to do so. You will likely have three magistrates sitting at the back on the highest level, with a legal adviser in front of them. (It's possible but unlikely that these four will be replaced by a single district judge.) Towards the centre of the court will be one or more prosecutors – solicitors representing TfL.
The legal adviser will ask you to confirm your personal details (name/address/DOB) and from there they will step you through what needs to be done – you'll likely be asked to confirm your guilty plea and then explain your mitigation. Mitigation means the reasons you are saying the court should punish you less harshly, or not at all.
After that, it could go off in several different directions, so I can't predict beyond there, all I can do is remind you that the court understands that their process is unfamiliar and will be happy for you to ask clarifying questions if you are unsure about anything. If you end up with a fine, you'll be asked if you can pay it right away (which really means within 28 days) or if you need to pay in instalments; they'll usually want it paying within 12 months. A letter will be sent to you with instructions on how to pay online, over the phone, or with a barcode at a "Paypoint" (convenience store).
Finally, don't be tempted to call anyone "your Honour" – that phrase isn't used at Magistrates Court. The magistrates collectively are addressed as "your Worships". Anyone else, including magistrates individually, should be addressed as "sir" or "madam" (not "ma'am").
From another thread:
If the you plead guilty or are found guilty this is the Court Fines Formula - that is used to set the punishment (the sentence the court gives for the offence concerned)
The Magistrates Courts will typically deal with an offender convicted under byelaw 18 by way of a "band A fine".
The amount of a "band A fine" is:
50% of one week's wages, with a maximum fine of £1,000, if the offender has a job and has declared their income on the court paperwork;
£60, if the offender is a student, or on benefits; or
£220, if the offender has not engaged with the court case or provided the necessary information.
The fine would then be adjusted downwards if the offender had pleaded guilty, with a reduction of one-third for a plea at the first opportunity, tapering down to one-tenth for a plea at the start of a trial.
There are also three more amounts to pay:
A victim surcharge, which is 40% of the fine
Compensation for the unpaid fare
The prosecution costs
The amount being claiming for the latter two items should be on any SJP paperwork, but the costs may increase if there has to be a hearing in court.
I say "typically" above for two reasons:
There is no entry in the sentencing guidelines for Railway Byelaw offences. This is unfortunate, as they occur very frequently indeed. The court will usually use the section 5 (1) Regulation of Railways Act guideline instead.
The court is not rigidly bound to follow sentencing guidelines, and it can raise or lower the punishment due to the specific facts of any individual case.
@WesternLancer , thank you very much for the advice related to reaching out to TfL and also for the suggestion to get in touch with the GP. Your detailed explanation of what could possibly happen on the court date and the explanation for the fines is extremely helpful. Thanks again for taking time out to help strangers. You guys are really kind.
@WesternLancer , thank you very much for the advice related to reaching out to TfL and also for the suggestion to get in touch with the GP. Your detailed explanation of what could possibly happen on the court date and the explanation for the fines is extremely helpful. Thanks again for taking time out to help strangers. You guys are really kind.
Thanks - and good luck
Those posts are from other really helpful people here - so I'm not taking credit for what is definitely useful info, but pleased to hear it may be of some help to you
Thanks again for the help. Another quick question. The date on the letter is 11th June. Does that mean I’ve to respond by 21st June as I received the letter on 15th June? Thanks
Thanks again for the help. Another quick question. The date on the letter is 11th June. Does that mean I’ve to respond by 21st June as I received the letter on 15th June? Thanks
Thanks again for the help. Another quick question. The date on the letter is 11th June. Does that mean I’ve to respond by 21st June as I received the letter on 15th June? Thanks
It will be the date they sent it as detailed on the letter is when the count down starts - not the date you got it / received it unfortunately
Having said that I suspect they appreciate that the post is not always that speedy any more if they used 2nd class - but I would not drag your feet in responding.
As a general rule TfL nearly always prosecute these cases of repeated abuse. They prosecuted nearly 15,000 last year alone.
There are only ever two outcomes to being reported for prosecution by TfL. You get either:
- a warning letter (very rare when passes have been abused), or
- prosecuted under the TfL Bylaws in the Magistrates' Court (nearly all cases), and you will be fined according to your income, have to repay the fares, pay TfL's costs and also a surcharge.
- you had a disability or mental health condition at the time of the offence, and that
1) the circumstances of your health are so severe that a conviction would be utterly disproportionate and not in the public interest, or
2) the circumstances of your health are the reason, or a contributing factor, in your decision to evade fares
You need satisfactory medical proof from a medical expert in the relevant field, so a diagnosis letter is good, but a letter from a consultant for example explaining either of 1) or 2) above is ideal.
Without wishing to prejudge any case, we do find that most people decide they have some sort of medical mitigation, but in truth it may not necessarily meet the standards outlined in 1) or 2), so you should think carefully about whether it is relevant to the facts of the case. As you have had a consultation with a solicitor and that, even with their help, the chances are apparently less than 50/50, you are obviously not in a good position and it may be better to accept that it is very likely you will be convicted of the offence.
My understanding is that there are actually three possible outcomes from an irregularity report ( There is as far as I can see no such thing as a prosecution report) the third being no further action.
It would be absurd to send warnings if an RPI has made a mistake or is confused
Can someone please confirm if the automatic acknowledgment comes from the email id immediately after replying?
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Anyone please? My letter was dated 11th June. I sent out an email reply yesterday but have not received even an acknowledgement. Just want to check if this is normal?
Can someone please confirm if the automatic acknowledgment comes from the email id immediately after replying?
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Anyone please? My letter was dated 11th June. I sent out an email reply yesterday but have not received even an acknowledgement. Just want to check if this is normal?
I don’t know if TfL send auto e mail acknowledgement responses or not.
If you are concerned they may not have it you could print the sent version of your e mail. Make sure you sign it and it has your postal address on it, then send it to them in the post with tracking from your local post office.
Hand write on it ‘as sent by e mail on xx date’.
Make a copy if that before you place it on an envelope.
Can someone please confirm if the automatic acknowledgment comes from the email id immediately after replying?
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Anyone please? My letter was dated 11th June. I sent out an email reply yesterday but have not received even an acknowledgement. Just want to check if this is normal?
Well to be fair if it was sent on the 11 June I’d hope someone has been in the office since then (or does the op mean the letter sent by TfL was dated 11 June? )
And if it’s an e mail auto reply the op is hoping for I’d expect the software to generate them 24/7. If it is set up to generate such things.
Unless I’m misunderstanding the question the op is asking.
I don’t know if TfL send auto e mail acknowledgement responses or not.
If you are concerned they may not have it you could print the sent version of your e mail. Make sure you sign it and it has your postal address on it, then send it to them in the post with tracking from your local post office.
Hand write on it ‘as sent by e mail on xx date’.
Make a copy if that before you place it on an envelope.
Well to be fair if it was sent on the 11 June I’d hope someone has been in the office since then (or does the op mean the letter sent by TfL was dated 11 June? )
And if it’s an e mail auto reply the op is hoping for I’d expect the software to generate them 24/7. If it is set up to generate such things.
Unless I’m misunderstanding the question the op is asking.
To clarify, the letter is dated 11th June . I sent my reply on 20th June and was expecting an auto-reply. That is the question I had asked if anyone knows about an auto email being sent out. Maybe there is no auto email sent.
Thanks a lot for the reply and advice. Let me do this.
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I’m sorry. I don’t expect anyone to be in office on Sunday. I thought that one received an auto acknowledgement email. Apparently, not. My mistake.
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To clarify, the letter is dated 11th June . I sent my reply on 20th June and was expecting an auto-reply. That is the question I had asked if anyone knows about an auto email being sent out. Maybe there is no auto email sent.
We are aware of an issue with emails from the Forum to Microsoft-based email accounts (hotmail/outlook/live.com email addresses). This is being looked into currently, thanks for your patience meanwhile.
