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No National Rail sign outside my local station
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D6130
Established Member
My local station, Hebden Bridge, doesn't have one at the station itself, which is a listed building. However, there is one - combined with a Metro symbol - about 200 metres away at the junction of Station Road and the A646.
ANDREW_D_WEBB
Member
Southall, Hanwell, Acton Main Line, Bond Street and Tottenham Court Road all lack National Rail symbols. Suspect some other Elizabeth line stations will as well despite being National Rail services.
Yes, I think they just forgot to put it back once the work was completed.
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
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I believe Crossrail stations will get the TfL symbol with primacy as they are the station management, with the NR symbol only added if National Rail also services call. That obviously doesn’t apply to the core stations.
neontrix
Member
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HS1 stations also don't have them. Unsure about Ashford International though, as that was built by BR, not part of the channel tunnel rail link project.
kitchenoven
Member
Does have the symbol as a vinyl! (I'm maybe guessing because the station itself is managed by southeastern whereas the others are managed by Network Rail HS for St Pancras HS?)
Steve Harris
Member
Google streetview confirms your statement.
I'm guessing it got removed as it would of been very close to the new exit road and perhaps planners thought that drivers might see the sign and try and drive into the exit road, which is obviously an unsafe action. Perhaps they couldn't find a suitable new location for it ?
I'm not so sure about that, they could have put it in front of the transport interchange by the pedestrian crossing, for example.
Royston Vasey
Established Member
To be pedantic, Crossrail the infrastructure and the Elizabeth Line the service are part of National Rail, but I fully expect TfL to continue to push their position that it's a pseudo tube line, including the signage as you suggest.
swt_passenger
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London Overground stations on the national network that are only served by LO also do not show the NR symbol. I suggest there’s no rule about the sign being ‘necessary’, it’s all about who is the station operator/manager.
Ralph Ayres
Member
I can confirm that some parts of TfL are very much in denial about London Overground and the Lizzie being National Rail services, despite being reminded by colleagues in TfL responsible for implementing various relevant rules and policies.
Kilopylae
Member
TfL's preferred framing is that the Overground and "the Elizabeth line" (always inexplicably in full, as if they're still sulking at not being allowed to call it Crossrail) are "modes", and that National Rail is a separate mode.
Hence there are four distinct modes, each equivalent to the others in status: London Underground, London Overground, Elizabeth line, and National Rail. Not to mention the Trams, the DLR, buses, coaches (as in the yellow sign used at coach stops), and cable car. I don't know whether Superloop is meant to be understood as a mode - it's not clear to me.
So they're not so much arguing that Elizabeth line is a "pseudo tube line", moreso that it's a separate rail system in its own right, like the Trans or the DLR. This is why the announcements sometimes treat it separately: "Change for the Northern and Central lines, and the Elizabeth line".
This is also why, on the carriage maps and journey planner diagrams, the purple bar says "Elizabeth line" rather than just "Elizabeth" as it does for Tube lines. TfL stubbornly insist on treating "Elizabeth line" as a fixed set phrase as the name of the mode, seemingly prepared to ignore that it has the word "line".
Hence there are four distinct modes, each equivalent to the others in status: London Underground, London Overground, Elizabeth line, and National Rail. Not to mention the Trams, the DLR, buses, coaches (as in the yellow sign used at coach stops), and cable car. I don't know whether Superloop is meant to be understood as a mode - it's not clear to me.
So they're not so much arguing that Elizabeth line is a "pseudo tube line", moreso that it's a separate rail system in its own right, like the Trans or the DLR. This is why the announcements sometimes treat it separately: "Change for the Northern and Central lines, and the Elizabeth line".
This is also why, on the carriage maps and journey planner diagrams, the purple bar says "Elizabeth line" rather than just "Elizabeth" as it does for Tube lines. TfL stubbornly insist on treating "Elizabeth line" as a fixed set phrase as the name of the mode, seemingly prepared to ignore that it has the word "line".
To the trains
Member
Clifton down only has one on a sign indicating walking directions from the west to the station which isn't of a style that makes me think it's owned by the railway. There's no big double arrow saying Clifton Down on it. There's CLIFTON DOWN STATION written on the parapet of the bridge on Whiteladies Road, but in a way that's sort of so big you don't really pay attention if you see what I mean (and offers no indication of how you actually get into the station). It's quite well hidden from Whiteladies Road!
Steve Harris
Member
Which could mean drivers are to distracted by the sign and looking for the turning for the station rather than paying attention to the pedestrian crossing !
These are the kind of things planners have to take into account when planning and the two reasons I have mentioned might (along with others) have a bearing on why the sign has not being replaced.
For example a sign may physically fit in a space/on a piece of land, but that doesn't mean that is where it should go, as planning laws will need to be adhered to, along with health and safety and other obligations etc.
That's not outside the station though.
Bradford Interchange also currently has no double arrow logos outside after the main original totem sign was taken down when they redid the frontage at the beginning of 2025 and has yet to be replaced by a new totem so the station is currently anonymous from the main road.
In fact there originally was also a smaller second totem at the top of the ramp with a double arrow but that was removed around a decade ago earlier.
Very poor when the city has 2 seperate stations to have the double arrow symbol missing from the main approach entrances to the main one for well over a year and counting.
In fact there originally was also a smaller second totem at the top of the ramp with a double arrow but that was removed around a decade ago earlier.
Very poor when the city has 2 seperate stations to have the double arrow symbol missing from the main approach entrances to the main one for well over a year and counting.
boiledbeans2
Member
Luckily TfL doesn't operate all LO stations.
Watford Junction has no LO signage externally. Unlike, say, TfL operated Romford, which has signage of Lizzie Line, LO, and NR outside the station.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Yes. The stations on the GEML solely served by Lizzie Line lack NR signage, e.g. Gidea Park, Ilford, etc.
From a distance, they look more like a tube station with the purple Lizzie line roundel only.
What about Seven Kings? It certainly does have timetabled GA services, so two individual NR operators.
boiledbeans2
Member
I'll have to rely on wiki. The area from Manor Park to Goodmayes is a no-go zone.
From the wiki photo below, it seems to have a Lizzie roundel only.
Seven Kings railway station - Wikipedia
thenorthern
Established Member
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Quite a few stations don't have National Rail or British Rail signs to be honest.
For many years Uttoxeter did not have any two arrows signs. I don't think Stoke-on-Trent to this day has any big or prominent two-arrow signs either but I may be wrong.
For many years Uttoxeter did not have any two arrows signs. I don't think Stoke-on-Trent to this day has any big or prominent two-arrow signs either but I may be wrong.