It wasn’t widely known about, even within the railway. Had it not stopped, it would have been all over the news.
Don't know the area or the incident. But as the post mentions shunt moves it is possible the train was doing a wrong direction move to go behind a signal facing the other way and driver had unknowingly already passed it. Just one of many possible scenarios.
It was a signalled move onto a single line. Was 2 158’s, when he changed ends the cab was ahead of the signal. The northern report mentions reading through to the single on the up L&Y.
They might not have seen it, depending on the route taken.
Through the train, there’s no reason to go outside there.
Would the correct stopping point issue in this location be solved by putting up stop boards at the lineside to indicate the correct stopping position to be inside the signal, eg 2-car stop, 3-car stop, 4-car stop. Seen it in use elsewhere eg in the headshunt south of Wilmslow on the down side.
That would of course help. But if this does turn out to be driver error either just having one of those days or his route knowledge needs improving then a driver is also capable of forgetting his train length, stopping at the wrong board and making this same mistake.
Correct
There's an overlap track circuit between the signal and junction (60m if I remember correctly), once the train has cleared the track circuit over the junction points, with the rear end standing in the overlap and therefore still beyond the 'outlet' signal, it has passed beyond the clearance point with the main line, so the interlocking can call those points Normal for a conflicting move.
I’ve remarked on this before in regard to “near misses“ where the protection hasn’t matched the worksite. People now call in from cellphones, the signaller has no idea where they are and has to take what they say at face value. I’d agree that the same would apply in this instance.
However, if the train stopped with that overlap still occupied then the signaller would know the train hadn't fully passed the signal. I wonder if the actually intended for the train to continue a bit further towards Stansfield Hall to clear the overlap and get inside the signal that would clear for their reverse move back to Todmorden, but there was some miscommunication and the driver believed they were being told to move in the other direction. I wonder also if, due to the out-of-course working, they were reversing a longer train than usual.
Wouldn't a GSM-R call identify the berth the train was in?
Which would be the one the signaller expects if they haven't gone far enough to occupy the track circuit.
The berth steps forward when the train first occupies a track circuit beyond the previous signal. In this case there would be a separate overlap track circuit so as the train passed the junction signal leaving Todmorden station the description would step into the berth in between the two signals on the curve. This probably means that the signaller and the GSM-R can't tell which of the two signals it is actually standing at. However the signaller will be able to see by occupation of track circuits whether the whole train is between the two signals.
A small point - the junction signal (PN320) is on the Manchester side of Todmorden station, so the TD step has already taken place before the train arrives at it.
I think some words have gone astray here, I presume you intended something like "...route for the following train towards Hebden Bridge". Which I agree with, but the signaller would also want to get the terminating train inside the signal so it could return towards Manchester without causing delay.
That post was abandoned when I realised I was answering a point different to the one you were actually making. I think the editor has hung on to the text and included it with my subsequent post without me noticing.
Is Preston PSB still working? I thought it had been moved to Ashburys ROC
That post was abandoned when I realised I was answering a point different to the one you were actually making. I think the editor has hung on to the text and included it with my subsequent post without me noticing.
Now edited to remove.
Yes, the WCML North power boxes are still operational, and for reasons that aren't clear to me someone decided back in the 70s that Preston should cover the Copy Pit line and a chunk of the Calder Valley line around Todmorden. The photo posted upthread shows that the signalling of the reinstated curve is from a panel not a screen.
Yes, but I don't know why that part was replaced when the rest of the route carried on with similar mechanical signalling for several more decades. Especially peculiar in the 80s when the Copy Pit line was under threat of closure, and the Calder Valley section would have had no direct connection back to its controlling box.
