Class 700s Being 'Refreshed"

Deepgreen · 20 Jun 2026

An article on BBC News talks of the 700s having an exterior clean and work to make toilets more graffiti-resistant, costing £3.6m. Peter Hendy is quoted as saying it proves nationalisation puts passengers first, to paraphrase. I would have thought a train washer should be able to clean the exteriors adequately, rather than have it done manually. If significant money was to be spent on the 700s, I would have preferred proper, clear permanent signing to sort out the first class debacle, and work to make the destination indicators legible - both of which would actually benefit passengers.

Greater Thameslink Railway spends £3.6m on train upgrades

Greater Thameslink Railway is cleaning the exterior of 115 trains, which add up to 46km in length.

www.bbc.co.uk

Rail operator Greater Thameslink Railway (GTR) is spending £3.6m on refreshing some of its trains.

The operator, which was bought under government control at the end of May, is cleaning the exterior of 115 trains - a total of 46km (28.5 miles) in length.

As well as the outside of trains, toilets onboard will be repainted and new wall vinyls will be fitted in an attempt to deter graffiti. GTR said this measure would also make it easier to clean graffiti from walls.

The trains operate in Kent, Sussex, Surrey, London, Hertfordshire, Bedfordshire and Cambridgeshire, with the majority of the work to be undertaken at the depot in Three Bridges.

The works follow on from a previous upgrade to Southern trains, also operated by GTR.

RailUK Forums

Royston Vasey · 20 Jun 2026

Seat back tables

Power sockets

Both far more important than the "first class debacle". If the rear first is full because enough people know about it now, you don't need more signage because it won't benefit anyone.

bramling · 20 Jun 2026

Royston Vasey said:
Seat back tables

Power sockets

Both far more important than the "first class debacle". If the rear first is full because enough people know about it now, you don't need more signage because it won't benefit anyone.

Yes who would have thought that declassified first might be popular, offering more comfortable spacious seating, tables and plug sockets? The whole train should have this.

Sparks807Evo · 20 Jun 2026

I suspect they have had to be polished as the dirt is so ingrained…so quite right, if they were properly cleaned or waxed in the first case, would not be an issue. The vinyl in the toilets is long overdue.

I would second the above that seat back tables and power sockets would be a good, much needed improvement but given that is an extra cost, expect this is the “cheap” option to make things appear better….

JonathanH · 20 Jun 2026

Deepgreen said:
I would have preferred proper, clear permanent signing to sort out the first class debacle

What would this 'clear' signing say?

swt_passenger · 20 Jun 2026

JonathanH said:
What would this 'clear' signing say?

“You can pretend you can’t read signs or understand announcements as much as you like, but we will still give you a Penalty Fare”?

yorksrob · 20 Jun 2026

Definitely the seat back tables.

These run London-Brighton services so tables are important.

Also they look very dreary inside - I've suggested Bournemouth Blue moquette in the past. I stand by that.

bramling · 20 Jun 2026

yorksrob said:
Definitely the seat back tables.

These run London-Brighton services so tables are important.

Also they look very dreary inside - I've suggested Bournemouth Blue moquette in the past. I stand by that.

Yes they are really drab, especially in standard. The atmosphere is so clinical and oppressive.

Having said that, some kind of GB News style colour scheme would probably be even worse.

First isn’t so bad, and when the lighting is on the dimmer mode it’s the nearest thing the 700 will come to actually being inviting.

yorksrob · 20 Jun 2026

bramling said:
Yes they are really drab, especially in standard. The atmosphere is so clinical and oppressive.

Having said that, some kind of GB News style colour scheme would probably be even worse.

First isn’t so bad, and when the lighting is on the dimmer mode it’s the nearest thing the 700 will come to actually being inviting.

Last time I was in downgraded first, someone was obviously preparing their doobies because it smelt like a cannabis farm !

Let's face it, we're never going to get to phase1 CIG levels of luxury, but there are things that can be done to these units to make them up to the job - brighter interior, tables, power points.

They've got their chance now, I just hope they do something worthwhile.

As for GB News colour scheme - I think red white and blue would be too stark for an interior. Even NSE with the original red white and blue livery realised that the more calming blue blaze was needed inside.

Deepgreen · 20 Jun 2026

Royston Vasey said:
Seat back tables

Power sockets

Both far more important than the "first class debacle". If the rear first is full because enough people know about it now, you don't need more signage because it won't benefit anyone.

Knowing whether a first class section is declassified is important to avoid penalties. Regulars may know the rule but others won't, especially as the units run via Gatwick. I'd support removing first completely for the 700s to do away with the current farce where those paying for first class in the expectation that it may be less crowded, etc,. are being served up a very poor product.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jun 2026 ==

JonathanH said:
What would this 'clear' signing say?

An illuminated, bright permanent sign saying either 'first class in operation' or 'first class de-classified' or similar. As opposed to a fleeting scrolled message among the plethora of other stuff on the existing screens. Either bite the bullet and re-locate first to the units' centre or abolish it. As it is it's a mess.

yorksrob · 20 Jun 2026

Deepgreen said:
Knowing whether a first class section is declassified is important to avoid penalties. Regulars may know the rule but others won't, especially as the units run via Gatwick. I'd support removing first completely for the 700s to do away with the current farce where those paying for first class in the expectation that it may be less crowded, etc,. are being served up a very poor product.

Or just have first class as first class and not de-classified (though it pains me to say - being a steerage skinflint).

I think a main line like London to Brighton ought to have a first class option really.

Recessio · 20 Jun 2026

Is this vinyl particularly resistant to graffiti, or easier to clean? Or is it just that they can more easily replace vinyl if it gets graffitied?

trainmania100 · 20 Jun 2026

Why not spend the exterior money sticking them into GBR branding ?

JonathanH · 20 Jun 2026

Recessio said:
Is this vinyl particularly resistant to graffiti, or easier to clean? Or is it just that they can more easily replace vinyl if it gets graffitied?

As with window film, it is basically adding something that can be more easily replaced.

To the trains · 20 Jun 2026

trainmania100 said:
Why not spend the exterior money sticking them into GBR branding ?

I think Thameslink is a sufficiently distinct service that it should have an independent Thameslink brand and livery. Don't like the white though, it shows every speck of dirt. Although if they aren't going to do that, which it seems not - I'd much rather each type of service like regional, intercity and commuter should have a different livery - I do agree that surely now is the time to paint them in the GBR livery. Even if I agree with others that it feels a bit GB news, it's what we're getting on everything eventually by the looks of things.

Failed Unit · 20 Jun 2026

I have seen the vinyl in the toiles, they look better. Although the baby changing tables are still a mess

RUK · 20 Jun 2026

trainmania100 said:
Why not spend the exterior money sticking them into GBR branding ?

The Class 357 Wikipedia article says that when they were delivered in 2001, the vinyl cost about £40,000 per 4-car unit, so about £10,000 per car. There are 1,140 Class 700 vehicles, so that would mean it would cost about £11.4 million for the exterior vinyls, which is a lot more than the £3.6 million that this polishing and toilet vinyl project is costing, not even taking into account 25 years’ worth of inflation. I don’t know if the exterior livery vinyls have to be more resistant/higher-specification, and hence more expensive than the interior toilet vinyls? Perhaps the extra cost of the vinyls is why the toilets didn’t have them from new? I also don’t know if that exterior vinyl cost is just for the vinyl itself, or also includes the cost of fitting it. I guess this cost must be why only a single unit per TOC is getting the GBR branding at first.

rmHawk765 · 20 Jun 2026

The interior problem is what you get when you combine regional routes with cross-city suburban routes.

gm671 · 20 Jun 2026

They’re just being externally polished and toilets vinyled. No other works. New PIS system has been delayed again till October 2028.

yorksrob · 20 Jun 2026

gm671 said:
They’re just being externally polished and toilets vinyled. No other works. New PIS system has been delayed again till October 2028.

No new tables is a particular dissapointment.

321362 · 20 Jun 2026

yorksrob said:
I think a main line like London to Brighton ought to have a first class option really.

It does. It's called Gatwick Express.

rmHawk765 · 20 Jun 2026

321362 said:
It does. It's called Gatwick Express.

That does not really have a first class option.

Sussex Ben · 20 Jun 2026

321362 said:
It does. It's called Gatwick Express.

That doesn’t help the well-heeled City commuters, a decent number of whom are willing to pay the first class fares on Thameslink.

Mikey C · 20 Jun 2026

Deepgreen said:
An article on BBC News talks of the 700s having an exterior clean and work to make toilets more graffiti-resistant, costing £3.6m. Peter Hendy is quoted as saying it proves nationalisation puts passengers first, to paraphrase. I would have thought a train washer should be able to clean the exteriors adequately, rather than have it done manually. If significant money was to be spent on the 700s, I would have preferred proper, clear permanent signing to sort out the first class debacle, and work to make the destination indicators legible - both of which would actually benefit passengers.

Greater Thameslink Railway spends £3.6m on train upgrades

Greater Thameslink Railway is cleaning the exterior of 115 trains, which add up to 46km in length.

www.bbc.co.uk

Pretty desperate for a political good news story if they're trying to claim this as a victory for nationalisation. Especially as the spec of the trains was basically chosen by the DfT.

Failed Unit · 20 Jun 2026

rmHawk765 said:
That does not really have a first class option.

I did wonder if that post was a joke - the Gatwick Express has a first class compartment but no first class seats for members who have not travelled on a 387. In fact if you want comfort a lot of the original seats in the 377 standard are more comfortable.

Nicholas Lewis · 20 Jun 2026

Mikey C said:
Pretty desperate for a political good news story if they're trying to claim this as a victory for nationalisation. Especially as the spec of the trains was basically chosen by the DfT.

Indeed its basic looking after the train environment and wouldn't surprise GTR as was tried to do some of it and was thwarted from spending money so DafT could claim credit.

Real investment would be fitting wifi to the half of the fleet without it yet they are investing in other fleets to improve existing wifi.

Bald Rick · 20 Jun 2026

swt_passenger said:
“You can pretend you can’t read signs or understand announcements as much as you like, but we will still give you a Penalty Fare”?

trainmania100 said:
Why not spend the exterior money sticking them into GBR branding ?

Because it would cost a lot more.

rmHawk765 said:
That does not really have a first class option.

It very much does. Albeit not much different to Standard.

Back to the subject of the polishing. Every train suffers from longer term ‘ingrained’ dirt that needs hard work to get rid of, ie more than going through a train wash. This is comlletely normal. This fleet is now approaching a decade old.

JonathanH · 20 Jun 2026

Mikey C said:
Pretty desperate for a political good news story if they're trying to claim this as a victory for nationalisation. Especially as the spec of the trains was basically chosen by the DfT.

The specification of the 700s works well, indeed near perfectly, for their primary purpose which is moving a large number of people around.

It is just that people don't like that this means they are limited in their niceties.

yorksrob · 20 Jun 2026

Mikey C said:
Pretty desperate for a political good news story if they're trying to claim this as a victory for nationalisation. Especially as the spec of the trains was basically chosen by the DfT.

Yes, does seem pretty desperate. Cancelling the so-called fares trial and committing to off-peak fares would be a better news story.

rmHawk765 · 20 Jun 2026

JonathanH said:
It is just that people don't like that this means they are limited in their niceties.

But is that down to the people or the routes and that they force an undesirable compromise to made in terms of comfort? You can't move hundreds of suburban commuters across the city with comfortable, seating-focussed regional trains but neither can you take people from London to Cambridge, Bedford or Brighton with metro trains.

Class 700s Being 'Refreshed"

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