European EES checks on intra EU - outside EU trains

I hear that a new service is starting up between Bucharest to Istanbul via Sofia and Varna.

How would EES checks be done for these journeys where part of the route is inside the schengen area and part of it is outside.

I think there's one other rail route like this.

FinsburyPark said:

I hear that a new service is starting up between Bucharest to Istanbul via Sofia and Varna.

How would EES checks be done for these journeys where part of the route is inside the schengen area and part of it is outside.

I think there's one other rail route like this.

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Presumably not how it’s being done for what is likely to remain the largest of such flows (Eurostar)!

FinsburyPark said:

I hear that a new service is starting up between Bucharest to Istanbul via Sofia and Varna.

How would EES checks be done for these journeys where part of the route is inside the schengen area and part of it is outside.

I think there's one other rail route like this.

Click to expand...

From https://discoverbyrail.com/train-tickets-bucharest-istanbul/:

Border crossing

The train linking Bucharest with Istanbul crosses the border between Bulgaria and Turkey at Svilengrad (the Bulgarian border station) and Kapıkule (the Turkish border station).

Bulgarian passport control is carried out on board the train at Svilengrad.

For Turkish customs and immigration procedures, you will need to get off the train at Kapıkule, taking all your luggage with you for a security scan, customs inspection, and passport control, which are carried out in buildings along the station platform.

Once you’ve cleared customs and immigration, you can board the night train again.

Since both Bulgaria and Romania joined the Schengen Zone, there are no longer any passport checks at the Romanian-Bulgarian border when taking the Bucharest-Istanbul train.

That said, it’s not unusual for Romanian or Bulgarian border officers to carry out a brief on-the-spot inspection of passports on the train as it stops at the border stations of Giurgiu in Romania and Ruse in Bulgaria.

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zwk500 said:

From https://discoverbyrail.com/train-tickets-bucharest-istanbul/:

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So a bit like what used to happen at Basel 40 years ago.

There are a few Schengen rail borders I can think of:

Ploče - Mostar/ Sarajevo
only extends to Ploče in the summer

Budapest - Belgrade
both the existing Szeged-Subotica train, and the new Eurocity (if it ever starts)

Bulgaria - Turkey

The various services which go from Poland - Ukraine

Of those, the Budapest-Belgrade is probably the biggest passenger flow? I can't imagine turfing everybody out at the border will be popular. Maybe they'll have juxtaposed controls?

Resuming services on Zagreb-Belgrade, Belgrade-Thessaloniki, anything to Russia etc, would all need EES.

mad_rich said:

There are a few Schengen rail borders I can think of:

Ploče - Mostar/ Sarajevo
only extends to Ploče in the summer

Budapest - Belgrade
both the existing Szeged-Subotica train, and the new Eurocity (if it ever starts)

Bulgaria - Turkey

The various services which go from Poland - Ukraine

Of those, the Budapest-Belgrade is probably the biggest passenger flow? I can't imagine turfing everybody out at the border will be popular. Maybe they'll have juxtaposed controls?

Resuming services on Zagreb-Belgrade, Belgrade-Thessaloniki, anything to Russia etc, would all need EES.

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Are there mobile fingerprint readers? (For EES, I mean). If not, it’ll have to be all non-Schengen people off.

FinsburyPark said:

I hear that a new service is starting up between Bucharest to Istanbul via Sofia and Varna.
How would EES checks be done for these journeys where part of the route is inside the schengen area and part of it is outside.
I think there's one other rail route like this.

Click to expand...

These are regular summer workings, linked to the daily Sofia-Istanbul Sofia Express (the last vestige of the Orient Express).
From Bucharest, there is a through train to Sofia in summer via Ruse, which takes a couple of Turkish couchette coaches to Gorna Orjahovice in Bulgaria.
These coaches are then detached and worked to Dimitrovgrad where they are attached to the Sofia Express.

The EU-Turkey border checks at Svilengrad and Kapikule have happened every night for decades.
Bulgaria and Romania joined the EU on 1.1.2007, and both joined the Schengen zone on 1.1.2025 (for land borders).
There should be no border checks at Giurgiu/Ruse between Romania and Bulgaria as Schengen members.
You'd expect EES checks at Svilengrad, but I've no idea how they do it compared to the older substantial checks.
Turkey does have some kind of association with the EU which might simplify the rules.

Seat61 describes the current Schengen border crossing procedures on the Istanbul train on this page: https://www.seat61.com/trains-and-r...-istanbul-by-train.htm#Whats_the_journey_like

I have crossed the Hungary/Serbia border a few times on the Szeged/Subotica route. EES was done via a portable scanner/camera whilst on the train at the Roszke border station. During the early days of EES this seemed to cause confusion with the “main” checks at airports etc with the Germans telling me I had “two records“. All seems sorted out now though.

FinsburyPark said:

I hear that a new service is starting up between Bucharest to Istanbul via Sofia and Varna.

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Sounds strange. Via Varna?

For a start, Bucharest to Varna via Sofia does not make sense. In summer, as well as the through Turkish couchette mentioned in post 7, the Bucharest-Sofia train carries a through coach to Varna which detaches at Ruse or Gorna Orjahovica. Outside summer you'd change at Ruse.

What is this new service Varna-Istanbul? A new ferry?

nwales58 said:

Sounds strange. Via Varna?

For a start, Bucharest to Varna via Sofia does not make sense. In summer, as well as the through Turkish couchette mentioned in post 7, the Bucharest-Sofia train carries a through coach to Varna which detaches at Ruse or Gorna Orjahovica. Outside summer you'd change at Ruse.

What is this new service Varna-Istanbul? A new ferry?

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Maybe I read it wrong.

Varna is a beachside kinda place and not near the Turkish border so maybe it's me.

FinsburyPark said:

Maybe I read it wrong.

Varna is a beachside kinda place and not near the Turkish border so maybe it's me.

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More likely to be through coaches to both running in the same departure from Bucuresti.

The exile said:

More likely to be through coaches to both running in the same departure from Bucuresti.

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Yes.

Makes sense if the original was announcing the annual summer-only (12/06-12/10 this year) through service which has through coaches to Sofia, Varna and Istanbul (not to Istanbul via the others). As ever, Vagonweb has the colourful details:

nwales58 said:

Makes sense if the original was announcing the annual summer-only (12/06-12/10 this year) through service which has through coaches to Sofia, Varna and Istanbul (not to Istanbul via the others). As ever, Vagonweb has the colourful details:

Click to expand...

I've been on the Bucharest-Ruse-Sofia summer train, and though it was a decade ago, the consist is still the same (though there is no Bucharest-Sofia-Thessaloniki through couchette coach today, or in fact any trains over the BG-GR border).
I don't know if you can still see ex-BR class 87s at Ruse though.

Another imminent change is the opening of the new Kapikule-Edirne-Cherkezkoy alignment which will radically reduce journey time to Istanbul.

mad_rich said:

The various services which go from Poland - Ukraine

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Also Ukraine - Hungary and Ukraine - Romania, as well as Romania - Moldova.

All these of course have plenty of time at the border while the wheelsets are being changed.

Trains from Kyiv & Lviv run through to 'broad' gauge platforms in Premysl, Poland.

Before EES passport and customs were done on the train during stops at the border.

I don't know how this has changed post post EES.

P Binnersley said:

Trains from Kyiv & Lviv run through to 'broad' gauge platforms in Premysl, Poland.

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I'm fairly sure there is also a through service to Warsaw with wheelset change at the border.

P Binnersley said:

Trains from Kyiv & Lviv run through to 'broad' gauge platforms in Premysl, Poland.

Before EES passport and customs were done on the train during stops at the border.

I don't know how this has changed post post EES.

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At Premysl, EES and Schengen checks are done at a building on platform 5. Ukraine immigration tends to take place on the train when heading into Ukraine, but on the way back out (when checks are much stricter), the train stops at a border station and Ukrainian border guards take your passports away for processing and the entire procedure can be lengthy (about 90 minutes when travelling from Lviv back in April).

The exile said:

Are there mobile fingerprint readers? (For EES, I mean). If not, it’ll have to be all non-Schengen people off.

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At Metković in Croatia, they're carried out onboard with mobile fingerprint readers. It's a bit of an absurd situation, because Ploce could easily host entry and exit controls for both Croatia and Bosnia, skipping the Metković stop. A local Ploce-Metković-Caplinja train could easily operate in lieu of the Metković stop on the Sarajevo train, but Croatian Railways is remarkably uninterested in connecting the local Croats.

mad_rich said:

Of those, the Budapest-Belgrade is probably the biggest passenger flow? I can't imagine turfing everybody out at the border will be popular. Maybe they'll have juxtaposed controls?

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I don't think they will, as there will be intermediate stops at Novi Sad, Subotica and Szeged as a minimum. It would actually make sense to implement full juxtaposed controls on this route, but I can't imagine there's any will to do so.

AdamWW said:

Also Ukraine - Hungary

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It's done both ways: Chop has a full border crossing in the station, so passengers are either cleared in the station or onboard the train, depending on the origin and destination. At Zahony, the controls are onboard the train.

tgsh2011 said:

At Premysl, EES and Schengen checks are done at a building on platform 5.

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The international station was out of use for a while, but it was brought back in after the start of the war. Having said that, this is only for passengers arriving/departing at Przemyśl, trains only making intermediate stops simply have onboard checks.

With the Ukrainian stop at Mostyska-2, I believe that this is largely because there isn't an agreement between PL and UA to return any passengers who are denied permission to leave Ukraine, so the only option is to carry out the border check there rather than in transit between Lviv-Przymyśl. It's a stupid situation and should be solved by having juxtaposed controls in Przemyśl, but there's no will on the part of either country to implement them properly. The same story repeats itself all over the PL-UA border, unfortunately.

tgsh2011 said:

I have crossed the Hungary/Serbia border a few times on the Szeged/Subotica route. EES was done via a portable scanner/camera whilst on the train at the Roszke border station. During the early days of EES this seemed to cause confusion with the “main” checks at airports etc with the Germans telling me I had “two records“. All seems sorted out now though.

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Yes this was the experience I had too between Szeged and Subotica. The train stood at the station whilst the Hungarian and subsequently Serbian border patrols worked their way through the train. The Hungarian staff were carrying a portable device that had a camera and could scan fingerprints.