Someone gets free travel with a National Entitlement Card in Scotland, and T&Cs say this means journeys from Berwick-Upon-Tweed north into Scotland are free. Some of the trains from Newcastle to Edinburgh don't stop on the way. Would this just mean they'd have to pay for the ticket from Newcastle to Edinburgh? Whereas if the train stops at Berwick they just have to pay from Berwick
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National Entitlement card travel from Newcastle to Edinburgh
- Thread starter NorEast
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There is no general free travel in Scotland for holders of National Entitlement Cards [NEC]. NEC concessionary fares are for residents of specific local authority areas and are limited to those areas (or in the case of Strathclyde throughout the former Strathclyde Region). There is no concessionary scheme in the Scottish Borders nor in East Lothian or Edinburgh City.
Are you referring to the free travel for visually impaired residents of Scotland?
Are you referring to the free travel for visually impaired residents of Scotland?
Mcr Warrior
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If such a (Scottish) National Entitlement Card is deemed to be an area-based concessionary pass, and is indeed valid on rail services North of Berwick-upon-Tweed, might this mean that the OP's friend/relative can then take advantage of Condition 14.2 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel, and so use it together with a (walk-up) ticket normally only valid from Newcastle to Berwick-upon-Tweed, whilst travelling on a train service from Newcastle to Edinburgh that hasn't actually called at Berwick-upon-Tweed?
eoff
Member
Good question and I have wondered this as well.
I would think (with no evidence) that at a minimum it would be best to treat this in the same way as split tickets and only choose services that stop at Berwick-Upon-Tweed or Carlisle.
Do you mean 14.3?
(my bolding)
14.3 Unless Condition 14.1 applies, if you are using a Season Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or another area based Ticket such as a concessionary pass, ranger, or rover, in conjunction with another Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid and the first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same, then the train does not need to Call at that station for your combination to be valid.
Mcr Warrior
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@AlterEgo. Thanks, yes 14.3; do you consider that it applies here?
It seems like the perfect use case in my view, that is clearly an area-based concessionary pass.
I would concur.
In addition, would the passenger be entitled to the D34 discount (for blind and those confined to wheelchairs) on the Newcastle to Berwick section?
Also, do they hold a disabled person's railcard?
In addition, would the passenger be entitled to the D34 discount (for blind and those confined to wheelchairs) on the Newcastle to Berwick section?
Also, do they hold a disabled person's railcard?
Haywain
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For visually impaired passengers, only if travelling with a companion.
Correct, I had forgotten that caveat. This D34/D50 discount was one that had fallen off the radar so to speak. Most passengers eligible in Scotland either got free travel (visually impaired) or were using a disabled person's railcard and/or travelling at a time where the full off peak fare undercut the discounted anytime fare. Therefore it became very rare to issue one.
However, the fact that the anytime & off peak fares are the same* means that for day returns the D50 discount is often the best - for those remaining in their wheelchairs. Visually impaired passengers, of course getting free travel (in some cases with a companion).
*the introduction of the £10 minimum fare by, we suspect increasing those anytime fares currently below £10 to £10, may, once again, change the dynamic. But we digress.
However, the fact that the anytime & off peak fares are the same* means that for day returns the D50 discount is often the best - for those remaining in their wheelchairs. Visually impaired passengers, of course getting free travel (in some cases with a companion).
*the introduction of the £10 minimum fare by, we suspect increasing those anytime fares currently below £10 to £10, may, once again, change the dynamic. But we digress.
Ziggiesden
On Moderation
Yes, we retail these quite a bit - the National Entitlement Card (NEC) for the Visually Impaired is zonal, as mentioned above, and the service does not need to call at Berwick-Upon-Tweed to qualify. The NEC (VIP) must have the +1 for the companion to travel free too, within Scotland. Generally, we advise a Disabled Persons RailCard for travel south of the border - it typically pays for itself as the D34/50 entitlement is pretty much useless, except on short journeys when it may become viable, due to market pricing.
Thanks for the replies! If train staff try to charge for travel from Newcastle rather than Berwick, she can mention 14.3 in the conditions of travel?
She does have a disabled person's Railcard and will travel with a companion. Doesn't use a wheelchair. Would D34 or D50 be any better than the Railcard discount?
She does have a disabled person's Railcard and will travel with a companion. Doesn't use a wheelchair. Would D34 or D50 be any better than the Railcard discount?
Mcr Warrior
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Surely the appropriate fare still needs to be paid for the part of the journey wholly within England, i.e. between Newcastle and Berwick upon Tweed, just not between Berwick and Edinburgh?
Ziggiesden
On Moderation
Yes, you need a ticket between Newcastle and Berwick-upon-Tweed.
Ziggiesden
On Moderation
Generally, you are better with the RailCard for long distance travel. However, due to the discount with D34 being slightly better (you will remember they reduced the discounts on RailCards to make a few more scheckles to 33.4%) on certain journeys, depending on ticket-type availability, it can be cheaper.
I did raise this with Rail Delivery Group a number of years ago as, if you think about it, you cannot get an Advance on a service that does not call at a specific point. So, in effect, it is Disability Discrimination if that quota would normally exist for that journey on other comparable services. I recommended that we put this into the system (special quota) so we could book it and the appropriate fare was charged for that portion of the journey with a separate through reservation, where possible.
Nothing was done.