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Reopenings - the positive narrative the railway industry needs !

SynthD

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Please let's not go down the route of seeing by-all-accounts successful re-openings as a waste of money
What does by-all-accounts mean, because the passenger numbers are only one account?
Have any of the successful re-openings since actually required or incorporated these features which were incorporated in to the 'basic' costs of the Uckfield scheme?
Maybe a higher bar was set for this through route.
If we don't keep inspiring future generations of rail enthusiasts then we lose rails quiet allies in government, the civil service, etc.
Do these variations in rail of openings and closures affect enthusiasm? It seems unrelated. Some, especially in situations like working in Westminster, become positive about rail by using the tube.
 
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Egg Centric

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Do these variations in rail of openings and closures affect enthusiasm? It seems unrelated. Some, especially in situations like working in Westminster, become positive about rail by using the tube.

I agree, that's why I'm saying that a "positive narrative" through pushing for reopenings or whatever doesn't matter nearly as much as creating rail enthusiasts.

It's hard to imagine anyone becoming enthusiastic about rail from using the tube from Westminster (other than the station itself I suppose). Anyhow you're much better off getting them young although I still maintain some kind of recent immigrant outreach is important too.
 

eldomtom2

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That's as may be, but in terms of Alloa, the line was "open", so restarting train services would not have created any new level crossings, therefore it was possible to use the old ones. (They chose not to do that for EWR aside from the Bicester one, where there had been actual services over it consistently anyhow).

But for Uckfield - Lewes, those would count as brand new level crossings and that's a different matter...
And I would say this is a problem - either new level crossings are a problem or they aren't. It shouldn't depend on whether they're on a de jure operational but de facto completely unusable line or not. That's a legal loophole that doesn't improve safety.
 

ox_chap

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I actually think some emerging enthusiasm for train travel comes from many people finding life less connected post-Covid. If you’re stuck in your “home office”, and you’ve a trip coming up - better to interact with people than further feel isolated stuck in a car.
 

Egg Centric

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I actually think some emerging enthusiasm for train travel comes from many people finding life less connected post-Covid. If you’re stuck in your “home office”, and you’ve a trip coming up - better to interact with people than further feel isolated stuck in a car.

I'm not sure about that. Where I live, where we talk to strangers, there's nothing special about a train particularly. Down south (including where you live from your location) they generally don't and this seems to be the case on trains as well? I am between the two at least monthly and quickly re-adapt between the two modes. Certainly if you start trying to strike up conversations with people on the tube while you absolutely can do you'll be treated with suspicion at first.

Mind you it's no problem for my wife, I suspect being a nerdy ogre V a petite woman makes a difference here.
 

The exile

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I actually think some emerging enthusiasm for train travel comes from many people finding life less connected post-Covid. If you’re stuck in your “home office”, and you’ve a trip coming up - better to interact with people than further feel isolated stuck in a car.
I would suggest it has much more to do with a) the stress of finding somewhere to park when you get to where you’re going and b) the restriction that driving places on certain activities you might want to indulge in. For family trips, it may well be easier to keep kids entertained on the train.
In terms of people’s positive attitude to trains / trams (as opposed to buses) I suspect there’s a clue in the expression “permanent way” - a subliminal realisation that a bus service can be withdrawn at the drop of a hat, whereas a railway is less likely to be. As I say, though, subconscious.
 

yorksrob

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If reasons to exclude projects come into it, then no surprise that nothing is lauded.

I would like to see more said about the Borders success. That may well be a better example than the Northumberland line (more work to do), Okehampton (Interchange station on its way). However, celebrate what they are, not what more could be done beyond the official projects. The public want finished infrastructure not more building sites, or weekend closures. Both of those examples are due their headlines soon.

Considering all the examples given (plus tube stations), is it just not rare enough news?

QUOTE="geordieblue, post: 7822585, member: 75784"]
Agreed - I wasn’t trying to do down the Northumberland line, it’s genuinely been transformative for the area and will become more useful as it’s properly integrated to the Metro when Northumberland Park opens. My point was more that total cost isn’t always the best metric of how successful a new line is when the rate of return may have been higher for a more expensive project. As you say the Elizabeth Line has been a proper success and cases like that (real investment in public transport, with a tangible national impact) should be celebrated.
[/QUOTE]

I'm not saying that the Elizabeth line shouldn't be celebrated - it's a magnificent piece of infrastructure and well used.

I'm just saying that there is a positive narrative about manageable local projects that needs its own publicity so as not to get drowned out by the mega projects. That, and the fact that a lot of people outside the capital will inevitably just see it as more spend on London, so the re-openings are a good way to counter that.



A quick perusal of Google Maps satellite view will show why the only practical entry in to Lewes is via the original Hamsey Loop on to the line from Victoria. That limits any through destination to either the Seaford or Eastbourne lines. Reversing out of the station to obtain the Brighton line isn't practical through a walking pace junction with 6 tph in each direction.
A multi level junction in Lewes to take Uckfield trains to Falmer is just pure fantasy.

Maybe something like a headshunt at Lewes, or run the trains through to Eastbourne.

Could shouting about the combined reopenings in the UK be a bad news story? It could easily be seen as a 'since 2000 we've spent billions of pounds reopening half a dozen loss-making lines to places you've never heard of' story.

For my mind a much better good news story would be to compare the massive capacity and frequency upgrades that have happened across the network since then. I live in the south west, and whilst Okehampton has made no difference to my life, the frequency upgrades elsewhere on the network have made it vastly more useful.

Or, as others have said, the megaproject type of new and upgraded lines such as Elizabeth Line, Edinburgh - Glasgow, Transpenine, Thameslink, overground etc.

It isn't necessarily that we see these reopenings as a waste of money, but more the question of whether it's sensible making a big song and dance in the public eye about having spent hundreds of millions of pounds to reopen a few branch lines to Nowheresville, Little Piddling and Dunny-on-the-Wold. Much of the media is vehemently anti-rail and anti-public-spending, and there's a risk that the more noise the government makes about it, the more it will turn off people who haven't seen their branch line reopen, or haven't seen any improvements to their rail service, and will think that these links to obscure places they've never heard of are not a good use of their taxes. Maybe we're better off just getting on and doing the job, trumpeting achievements to people who will see them as achievements but not giving the fossil fuel lobby any more ammunition than we need to!

I disagree.

The issue the railway has is that there are negative narratives about HS2 costing too much and being cut back, high fares etc.

I don't think opening lines is seen as a bad thing amongst the public at all - I doubt Boris Johnson would have backed the restoring your railway proposal if he didn't think it would be hugely popular.

The public want their lines opened relatively quickly and on budget.

(Though I've no doubt that there will be some in the economic Establishment who have a negative view of such things).

Not so. It’s barey noise in the total cost. The reason it’s unaffordable is that the benefit it would provide does not come anywhere near the costs of building the new line.

I'm sure there are various proposals with a positive cost benefit analysis, that just aren't taken up because no one wants to stump up the initial cost.

Isn't Tavistock in this position currently ?

Giving people more opportunities to encounter a risk because otherwise they rarely encounter the risk is not in my opinion really in the spirit of live and let live or the as low as reasonably possible principles of the Health and Safety at Work Act. Risk is usually measured in terms of likelihood and impact and keeping likelihood high is just keeping the risk and number of incidents high.

Steering back to the discussion on this thread, Skipton to Colne is not a blockbuster opening. Anyone at Leeds/Bradford is getting on the existing hourly Northern Rail service to reach Burnley, Blackburn and Preston. Extending the existing Halifax terminator from Hull to Blackburn or Preston would lift the frequency to half hourly. It’s a lovely idea but once you start to really look at it, it becomes a bigger financial cost, with fewer benefits.

Rail needs to be demonstrated as the best option for specific jobs in a transport system. Long drawn out rail campaigns start with a disused railway line, then keep throwing problems at their solution. The successful schemes list out the problems, show the options and only progress rail if that is the genuine solution.

I appreciate that it will make me unpopular with some on here but I think that if you want to see rail network expansion progress, serious consideration should be put to pulling back the campaigns for schemes that just aren’t progressing such as Skipton to Colne and Lewes to Uckfield. They are making noise that reinforces that no rail network expansion schemes are ever going to be delivered. I think BRTA has inadvertently increased the negative discourse with what appears to me to be a refreshed correspondence campaign in the local press for lots of schemes, many of which are not going to move forwards. The press add this correspondence to their websites and social media, which receives a lot of responses querying how long these schemes have been talked about. I might have just had the ones with the most negative comments shown to me by the Facebook algorithm.

I was disappointed to see the BML2 X account negatively respond recently to someone who was pulling together support for a Greenway on the Lewes to Uckfield route. My worry is that with no use, the whole formation is at risk reducing any hope for any transport scheme if nobody is bought in.

I don't think one can blame long running opening campaigns on perceptions that nothing will happen. The best way to reenforce such perceptions is not to reopen anything.

Conversely, championing the successes of Restoring your Railway gives the impression that the industry can achieve things outside of London on budget that make a huge difference to communities.

Also the Uckfield campaign are justified in not allowing a cycle path to be built on the line. These schemes were sold to us as being about conserving the routes for future rail use, but the cycle lobby has chosen to back track on that.
 
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nw1

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What does by-all-accounts mean, because the passenger numbers are only one account?
Passenger numbers, according to third-party sources as I haven't yet travelled on any of them.
 
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The exile

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I don't think opening lines is seen as a bad thing amongst the public at all - I doubt Boris Johnson would have backed the restoring your railway proposal if he didn't think it would be hugely popular.

Don’t know what the reply function’s getting up to!

The cynic in me says that BoJo saw Number 10 merely as a stepping stone to more lucrative things. Concept - launch lots of popular concepts (like reversing Beeching - which as a theory is popular) but leave his successor to face to say “reopening Great Mumbling Junction to Little Dozing just isn’t feasible”.
 

Egg Centric

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Boris Johnson's actually a perfect example of getting enthusiasts into power having positive effects (would have been more of one if he hadn't been, well, Boris Johnson and imploded). Plenty of financially irrational transport schemes (starting with the new routemaster, which for all its faults I bet was good for attracting people to bus enthusiasm) coming about because at heart he was a transport nerd amongst various other things.
 

yorksrob

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I don't think opening lines is seen as a bad thing amongst the public at all - I doubt Boris Johnson would have backed the restoring your railway proposal if he didn't think it would be hugely popular.

Don’t know what the reply function’s getting up to!

The cynic in me says that BoJo saw Number 10 merely as a stepping stone to more lucrative things. Concept - launch lots of popular concepts (like reversing Beeching - which as a theory is popular) but leave his successor to face to say “reopening Great Mumbling Junction to Little Dozing just isn’t feasible”.

I guess that's why the format worked - have a round of applications every few years and pick a couple of good' uns - then you always have something being progressed.

Then you also have the new stations on existing lines, which are a lot cheaper and easier and can maintain the interest.

Overall, it was a very well thought out scheme.
 

The exile

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Boris Johnson's actually a perfect example of getting enthusiasts into power having positive effects (would have been more of one if he hadn't been, well, Boris Johnson and imploded). Plenty of financially irrational transport schemes (starting with the new routemaster, which for all its faults I bet was good for attracting people to bus enthusiasm) coming about because at heart he was a transport nerd amongst various other things.
We will of course never know what would have happened had there not been a “minor adjustment” to the financial situation in 2020.
 

The Ham

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I agree, that's why I'm saying that a "positive narrative" through pushing for reopenings or whatever doesn't matter nearly as much as creating rail enthusiasts.

It's hard to imagine anyone becoming enthusiastic about rail from using the tube from Westminster (other than the station itself I suppose). Anyhow you're much better off getting them young although I still maintain some kind of recent immigrant outreach is important too.

Whist a train with "soul" is a useful tool, the thing such is going to make people want to have an interest in the railways is to have a half decent service which they can use, as without that they're never getting on that iconic train in the first place.

For example, one of my kids prefers diesel traction over steam at heritage lines.

Whilst our local station has diesel trains passing, it's not something they've traveled on regularly, but do enjoy bus and rail travel.

For me the train which I first encountered which was of interest (rather than just something I traveled in) was the IC225. Not really because of anything specific about that train, other than it was modern compared to what I saw on my local trains (which were all slam doors).

Likewise, I am more likely to be interested in a new train which is going to be introduced over necessarily preserving what has come before.

(Before anyone thinks otherwise, I'm not saying that we shouldn't be preserving what's come before, nor do I not enjoy preserved railways, rather that's not where my primary interest is).

Reopenings are something which I support, again not due to heritage or some nostalgic longing for the past.

Although, there are times I've been accused of that.

The main example is the choice between the modern Dawlish Avoiding Line (DAL) and the route through Okehampton.

Given what I've said about rolling stock, many may assume that I'd prefer the DAL - and to a point they'd be correct, however my argument is that should happen later.

There's two main reasons:
- the rolling stock requirements to run through trains are the same as the two branch lines
- the DAL can't be fed with more services (especially from London) whilst the via Okehampton route has the potential to use some of the 8tph paths such Crossrail 2 realises out of Waterloo

As such, whilst the DAL makes the trains faster they will still be limited to 1.5tph and so any growth that faster journey time encourages will just lead to more overcrowding.

Conversely, going via Okehampton, has the potential (especially when paired with improvements on the WofE line) to create 2tph Waterloo to Plymouth. Whist the flow from London will be low, for some the door to door journey may not be significantly different and may be marginally cheaper.

Creating a modern 2tph service along the corridor will result in far, far more people using the railway overall than the DAL could dream of (without a new line out of London), and whilst there would be far more infrastructure improvements, this could defer the need for such significant upgrades to the A303.
 

Bald Rick

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I'm sure there are various proposals with a positive cost benefit analysis, that just aren't taken up because no one wants to stump up the initial cost.

Isn't Tavistock in this position currently ?

Nope. The case for Tavistock is poor, especially when compared to reasonable alternatives.
 

BayPaul

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Whist a train with "soul" is a useful tool, the thing such is going to make people want to have an interest in the railways is to have a half decent service which they can use, as without that they're never getting on that iconic train in the first place.

For example, one of my kids prefers diesel traction over steam at heritage lines.

Whilst our local station has diesel trains passing, it's not something they've traveled on regularly, but do enjoy bus and rail travel.

For me the train which I first encountered which was of interest (rather than just something I traveled in) was the IC225. Not really because of anything specific about that train, other than it was modern compared to what I saw on my local trains (which were all slam doors).

Likewise, I am more likely to be interested in a new train which is going to be introduced over necessarily preserving what has come before.

(Before anyone thinks otherwise, I'm not saying that we shouldn't be preserving what's come before, nor do I not enjoy preserved railways, rather that's not where my primary interest is).

Reopenings are something which I support, again not due to heritage or some nostalgic longing for the past.

Although, there are times I've been accused of that.

The main example is the choice between the modern Dawlish Avoiding Line (DAL) and the route through Okehampton.

Given what I've said about rolling stock, many may assume that I'd prefer the DAL - and to a point they'd be correct, however my argument is that should happen later.

There's two main reasons:
- the rolling stock requirements to run through trains are the same as the two branch lines
- the DAL can't be fed with more services (especially from London) whilst the via Okehampton route has the potential to use some of the 8tph paths such Crossrail 2 realises out of Waterloo

As such, whilst the DAL makes the trains faster they will still be limited to 1.5tph and so any growth that faster journey time encourages will just lead to more overcrowding.

Conversely, going via Okehampton, has the potential (especially when paired with improvements on the WofE line) to create 2tph Waterloo to Plymouth. Whist the flow from London will be low, for some the door to door journey may not be significantly different and may be marginally cheaper.

Creating a modern 2tph service along the corridor will result in far, far more people using the railway overall than the DAL could dream of (without a new line out of London), and whilst there would be far more infrastructure improvements, this could defer the need for such significant upgrades to the A303.
Why couldn't Waterloo services continue to Plymouth via a Dawlish avoiding line, and get there much faster, and via significant population centres?
 

The Ham

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Why couldn't Waterloo services continue to Plymouth via a Dawlish avoiding line, and get there much faster, and via significant population centres?

It could, although it would require a reversal at Exeter (not a significant issue, subject to capacity) although as I said the rolling stock of the two branches lines would give you 1tph for "free" (assuming same length of train).

Also, it would be subject to capacity into Plymouth (again 1tph is already accounted for from Okehampton).

As to journey times the largest possible difference (fastest improvement from the DAL and an all stops service via Okehampton) would be 26 minutes, however some of that time would likely be needed for the reversal.

However, if some services were non stop the difference would be 10 minutes (again some would be required for the reversal).

Whilst 1tph wound be an all stations service the other would likely be a limited stopping service, so maybe 16 minutes less the time taken to reverse.

As such whist one may take about 20 minutes longer the other might be around 10 minutes (likely Crediton, Okehampton and Tavistock). Either way on a over 3 hour journey from London not significant.

As to serving Torquay, the Waterloo service would still require a change at Newton Abbot, a better way to provide capacity there would be to extend the Exeter Semi fast service giving a minimum of 0.5tph direct to Paddington.

Otherwise in terms of directly served stations on the fastest of services it's mostly just Newton Abbot (27,000), as soon as Teignmouth (15,000) is served that takes about 3 minutes off the difference in journey times (so the difference in the limited stops service could be around 7 minutes).

Whilst the 3 stops on the limited stops services via Okehampton total 28,000, they are likely to see a bigger uplift in rail travel, due to the current fairly poor service they have (for instance Crediton would see 3tph vs the existing 2tph whist the rest would go from 1tph to 2tph, with the exception of Tavistock which would start from 0tph).

This compares with Newton Abbot which has 4tph currently, what sort of uplift in local travel would likely happen if this increased to 6tph vs it increasing to 4.5tph (due to the extension of the Exeter Semi Fasts to serve Torquay (note this is likely to be to Paignton).
 

swt_passenger

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Nope. The case for Tavistock is poor, especially when compared to reasonable alternatives.
I assume the case for the Dawlish avoiding line is also ‘poor’, or worse, given the design life of the seawall. I’m surprised people still refer to it…
 

WAO

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The problem with re-openings is that the cost is examined independently of the benefits.

It would be better to quantify the benefit then capitalise it, multiply by a CBR ratio, then see what could be done for that price.

A very attractive scheme (say like the Elizabeth line) might merit full rebuilding, 100mph, electrification, platform doors, ETCS, etc etc

Lesser schemes would merit proportionately less work and alternative suppliers/designers could be sought, as would be done for private schemes. Many would still be non-starters for rail.

A good initial guide would be populations served and equivalent service comparisons.

WAO
 

Bald Rick

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I assume the case for the Dawlish avoiding line is also ‘poor’, or worse, given the design life of the seawall. I’m surprised people still refer to it…

Officially poor. I’m also surprised it is still referred to, as it was studied over a decade ago, found to be a poor business case (with no hope of making it un-poor) and consigned to the filing system.
 

Zomboid

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Dawlish and it's avoidance will be a perpetual subject of debate, especially when people remember the rails hanging over the sea photos. It would no doubt be better to have an option that avoids it, but that kind of expenditure to support what is essentially a diversionary route won't ever add up - at least not until it becomes enough of a political issue that such things get looked upon differently.
 

yorksrob

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I seem to recall that the single track option via Okehampton had a better BCR than any of the new diversions.
 

zwk500

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Maybe something like a headshunt at Lewes, or run the trains through to Eastbourne.
And this is where the 'reopening' tag gets in the way, rather than 'connecting places that have built up in the past 60 years'.

People are so over-focused on reusing as much trackbed as possible they ignore the fact there's a whole other town between Lewes and Uckfield that would provide a monumentally easier alignment into Lewes for services to Brighton, without over-penalising services to Eastbourne and Seaford.

Ringmer, which has had about 5,000 people in 2011, and has had substantial new development in the last few years, with more on the way. It'll be larger than Uckfield was when the trains were terminated there before too long. Routing via Ringmer avoids the National Park, Lavender Line, and provides operational flexibility by connecting to the existing line just east of Glynde station. But if you focus on colouring in the dashed lines on OS Maps, you'll miss all of those advantages.
 

devon_belle

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On the subject of Lewes to Uckfield, I noticed an article on Sussex Express about Network Rail objecting to a new homes development at Owlsbury Farm to 'safeguard the Lewes-Uckfield' railway line. https://www.sussexexpress.co.uk/com...guard-the-uckfield-lewes-railway-line-8742449.

Now Craig Hatton, Senior Town Planner for Network Rail states: 'Network Rail objects to the planning application. This fails to sufficiently safeguard the Uckfield-Lewes railway line and is therefore in conflict with the adopted Core Strategy. The illustrative master plan identifies the railway as disused and appears to provide a direct connection to this.

'Additionally there are several features too close to the railway line including a children's play area. The application will stifle the future delivery of the Uckfield-Lewes railway links, impact on safeguarded land and conflict with adopted policy.'

Brian Hart, who leads the Wealden Line Campaign, said: "It is nothing short of a scandal that this campaign (40 gruelling years this July) should still be fighting to retain even the option of reinstating this main line - let alone see it re-opened with trains operating. A busy thriving and useful railway once again.

"Meanwhile the surrounding network serving Sussex, Surrey and Kent struggles to meet demand which continues growing by the year. Yet those who have political power over the rail industry do nothing to fix its fundamental faults - insufficient route capacity as well as not enough train capacity causing overcrowded trains with people standing. Our inept Department of Transport should have competently addressed this years ago, instead it carried on turning a blind eye to what is happening in the region and has nothing to offer."

He concluded: “We can only hope that the DfT and its government minister will take notice of what Network Rail is now saying and act accordingly.” And he also criticises a so-called 'greenway' proposition - converting the disused trackbed into a cycle and walking route - asking whether people would 'willingly walk or 'wheel' between the two towns in all weathers.'
Sorry if I've missed another thread. It's tangentially related to the posts above.
 

Zomboid

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People are so over-focused on reusing as much trackbed as possible they ignore the fact there's a whole other town between Lewes and Uckfield that would provide a monumentally easier alignment into Lewes for services to Brighton, without over-penalising services to Eastbourne and Seaford
Reopening is often the answer to the wrong question. Lines that closed decades ago are often unusable without effectively completely rebuilding them, in which case it's better to look at what needs connecting to what. If there's a handy clear historic track bed that'd be useful for some of it then that's great, but whatever is proposed has to solve the problems of the 21st century, not the 19th.
 

zwk500

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Reopening is often the answer to the wrong question. Lines that closed decades ago are often unusable without effectively completely rebuilding them, in which case it's better to look at what needs connecting to what. If there's a handy clear historic track bed that'd be useful for some of it then that's great, but whatever is proposed has to solve the problems of the 21st century, not the 19th.
Exactly
 

yorksrob

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And this is where the 'reopening' tag gets in the way, rather than 'connecting places that have built up in the past 60 years'.

People are so over-focused on reusing as much trackbed as possible they ignore the fact there's a whole other town between Lewes and Uckfield that would provide a monumentally easier alignment into Lewes for services to Brighton, without over-penalising services to Eastbourne and Seaford.

Ringmer, which has had about 5,000 people in 2011, and has had substantial new development in the last few years, with more on the way. It'll be larger than Uckfield was when the trains were terminated there before too long. Routing via Ringmer avoids the National Park, Lavender Line, and provides operational flexibility by connecting to the existing line just east of Glynde station. But if you focus on colouring in the dashed lines on OS Maps, you'll miss all of those advantages.

I think it's quite rare that you get a settlement near a railway that's grown out of proportion with other settlements. In most cases it will be the same settlements that would have grown, although, yes Ringmer is one that might be diverting nearer.

If we're talking settlements that have grown, perhaps its the Cuckoo line we ought to be reopening, looking at Hailsham, Heathfield etc !

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Reopening is often the answer to the wrong question. Lines that closed decades ago are often unusable without effectively completely rebuilding them, in which case it's better to look at what needs connecting to what. If there's a handy clear historic track bed that'd be useful for some of it then that's great, but whatever is proposed has to solve the problems of the 21st century, not the 19th.

I reiterate my previous point that often its the same settlements that have grown, so of times there is a handy previously closed track bed.
 

zwk500

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I think it's quite rare that you get a settlement near a railway that's grown out of proportion with other settlements. In most cases it will be the same settlements that would have grown, although, yes Ringmer is one that might be diverting nearer.
No, since the 60s it's very common that settlements not far from old railway lines have grown now that the private car makes location something most people can be extremely flexible on.
If we're talking settlements that have grown, perhaps its the Cuckoo line we ought to be reopening, looking at Hailsham, Heathfield etc !
The settlements between Eridge and Hailsham are pretty small and would not justify the reopening even if the capacity questions could be overcome at the London End.
Polegate to Hailsham is more borderline. If the cuckoo line had not closed, it'd probably be doing as well as any similar branch in the country. However, because it did close and Polegate station is now over the trackbed, it needs either a standalone isolated connection or expensive deviation to be reconnected to the network.
My hunch is that the highest chance option for Polegate-Hailsham would be as an automated light railway, DLR-style. Although the most useful option for passengers would be if it continued into Eastbourne town centre, so potentially the compromise of tram-trains is appropriate here.
I reiterate my previous point that often its the same settlements that have grown, so of times there is a handy previously closed track bed.
Often those settlements have grown *over* the trackbed.
 

yorksrob

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I'm not sure we should be looking at reopening lines given the squeeze that's on its way...

Ultimately the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

I don't see the political calculation going "well, we've reopened the line here, so we'll close one there".

Public services never get rewarded for frugality. They just get asked to make even more cuts.
 

The exile

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31 Mar 2010
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I don't see the political calculation going "well, we've reopened the line here, so we'll close one there".
Indeed, our way of funding subsidised services does not of itself create that kind of perverse incentive - unlike, for example, the German one.
 

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