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The end of Radio 4 on longwave, and other radio oddities/broadcasts of interest
- Thread starter Peter C
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contrex
Established Member
Not only car radios. I was a boy in August 1967 when my family went on a drive across Europe to Switzerland (Dieppe - Rouen - Paris - Troyes - Besançon - Pontarlier - Geneva - Lausanne) and we could listen to the BBC Light Programme on long wave all the way, although by the time we were past Besançon reception was better at night. This was using a Stella transistor portable using its internal ferrite rod aerial, or, in the car, a telescopic aerial that clipped on the window glass of a door; the set had a co-ax socket on the side.
Somehow the news about events such as Hillsborough and Tiananmen Square seemed all the more dramatic by only just being audible on R4LW from halfway down West Germany. As you say reception was better at night and also when it was damp (the weather, that is, not the radio).
A final date has now been set: 27 June 2026 (source). I wonder how long MW has left after (5 live is switching off in September I believe)... Although Radio Caroline might hang on for a bit, MW seems to be rapidly dwindling as well...
Edit-is seems like 5 live is actually going gradually and will be fully gone by December 2027.
Edit-is seems like 5 live is actually going gradually and will be fully gone by December 2027.
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There's a bit more to it than speaking to as many different users as possible in a competition.
Racal? Not sure what you mean, It's been bought my Thales.
If you are on about the number of radio hams, this has increased over recent years due to covid, home exams (rather than traipsing to a test centre) and the introduction of SDR radio (Software defined radio) that have cut costs of manufacturing some radio equipment dramatically
Sorry, not Racal, Raynet.
Thanks @Cowley!
I'll be interested to see if anything will be said on the air about the longwave closure on the 27th - there's normally a bit of time between the end of the 0048 Shipping Forecast and the start of the national anthem (before the pips at 0100) during which the announcer often informs the listener of the programmes available on Radio 4 Extra or BBC Sounds, so I wouldn't be surprised if there was a quick line to say something like "and goodbye for the final time on longwave" or similar.
I also note that they've been playing out recorded announcements informing listeners of the upcoming closure a lot more regularly than they were. There was initially one announcement played occasionally throughout the day just before the top of the hour saying the service would be closing later this year, and then shortly after that one went out for the first time, a second version (which seems to be the only one used now) was introduced. This second announcement gives a specific closure date as well as listing the other ways you can listen to Radio 4.
There's a YouTube video (not mine) featuring both announcements here:
Something that's crossed my mind is that 198 LW may well live on for some time yet (on paper only) - some newspapers' (including The Times, I think, last I read it) radio listings still feature MW frequency information for Radio 4 despite those services closing a few years ago, so it wouldn't surprise me if the papers still refer to LW for some time yet. I mention this only as a minor novelty - I know it's not a problem at all or anything like that - just a bit interesting (perhaps).
As an aside - I've seen some people on other forums suggest that there may continue to be broadcasts of the retune announcement after the 27th for a few days until the end of the month, but as far as I know that's just speculation (albeit, I seem to recall, based on the fact that something to do with RTS isn't due to end until the end of June?). I imagine there'd be a third announcement recorded then, informing listeners the service has now closed.
-Peter
OVO's website suggests the RTS is closing down on the 30th, which would line up with a few days of retune announcements ahead of final closure at the end of the month. Maybe the BBC would follow the footsteps of Absolute Radio and let an anorak play a decent send off before someone throws the breaker
Thanking you kindlyJust had a look at today's Times:
I'll have a word
Thanks for that. It'd be great if they could play at least something - maybe not anything big (I think Radio 4 and the wider BBC probably don't have the money to justify that!) but even just a short clip or mention in another programme would be great. A few programmes have mentioned the closure of longwave in the last month or so - Feedback has had at least one item on it, and Broadcasting House had an interactive bit where listeners from across Europe emailed in to say they could receive the longwave signal in France/Germany/etc.
Now that'd be a fun novelty. A thought has just occurred to me - I wonder whether a fitting thing to broadcast at the end of the month would be the old "Radio 4 UK Theme"?
It would also be fun if one of the continuity announcers mentioned longwave in their quick bit before the pips - "on 92-95 FM, on digital radio, on 198 longwave, and on your smart speaker: this is Radio 4". Something tells me they're something of a radio-nerdy bunch!
-Peter
1500m LW was always the broadcast medium "of last resort" in the event of war.......the assumption was the transmitter had a high probability of surviving a nuclear strike (good old valves) and could broadcast to the whole country. It was regarded as essential to post war recovery in terms of giving news & instruction to a fragmented population.
It's absence leaves a big civil defence black hole.
Anyone know how government intends to plug the gap?
It's absence leaves a big civil defence black hole.
Anyone know how government intends to plug the gap?
To turn this its on head, nuclear submarines listen to R4 LW when it all kicks off to see if the UK has been destroyed.
AFAIK, the UK does not have any military 'Buzzer' stations on long wave which would alert them once R4 LW is turned off.
Trident: What are the letters of last resort?
Newsbeat's guide to the orders that are given if Britain is facing a catastrophic nuclear strike.
www.bbc.co.uk
It has to be taken into consideration along with other indicators.
For instance if Anthorn stopped broadcasting and 1500m LW went quiet that would indicate both civil and military radio networks had been compromised.
But more fundamentally it was also meant as "listen to the Today program for instructions" if everything else had gone offline. Remember the 1500m transmitter was viewed literally as the comms method of last resort due to its power and range
HSTEd
Veteran Member
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- Messages
- 20,273
In the last ditch retaliatory strike scenario, it doesn't really if the enemy cities are struck immediately or hours or days later.
The submarines are highly unlikely to be detected and destroyed before they fire their missiles, and even if the enemy attempts some sort of evacuation the damage is likely to be cataclysmic.
Radio 4, being the corporations flagship station and the one associated with news, is a good way for a commander to find out if regular comms channels have gone silent because of a technical failure or because the communications apparatus has been destroyed.
I imagine if Radio 4 is out but Five Live is still broadcasting football, its safe to assume the world has not ended.
One of the key things is that neither of those things will reach a UK missile sub down at depth. So there won’t be an instant response. The sub will come up to comms depth on a schedule and if all these things are off then they’ll know there’s a problem. Waiting a few hours to make sure isn’t likely to make a massive difference.
The US and Russians did build transmitters that can reach that deep. But they don’t give their submarine commanders the ability to launch independently like we have.
The Today programme did go off-air once...
www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk
If there was a national emergency, frequencies are already allocated, so any Ham can help out relaying information, which is usually not allowed.
Radio silence puts subs on nuclear alert
THE captains of Britain’s nuclear submarines had a wake up call today - when the BBC mysteriously went off air for 15 minutes. Secret orders to captains say orders to launch a strike are to be opened and acted upon only if the submarine cannot tune in to Radio 4’s Today programme for a given...
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More underwater antenna technology than transceiver technology.
8,000 according to the RSGB.
If there was a national emergency, frequencies are already allocated, so any Ham can help out relaying information, which is usually not allowed.
I thought the reason for the VLF transmitter at Anthorn was that it was able to deep penetrate, unlike Inskip?
VLF can manage 30 metres, but ballistic submarines are down at several hundred metres. Hence using ELF which can penetrate.
They're clearly reading the thread!All sorted / removed as of today's edition
I've also read somewhere else that the Radio Times has removed 198LW from the Radio 4 listings in the current issue (which went on sale yesterday).
-Peter
I'm an amateur radio licence holder, not that I use it much. I do wonder under what exact circumstances Raynet would be used in 2026 given modern communications infrastructure. 70+ years ago when amateur radio was used in an emergency it was because an underwater cable had been severed.
But we now have a large number of underwater cables providing redundancy, mobile networks, satellite Internet, better handheld radios, etc. It appears to me that RAYNET largely support planned events, with occasional but ever-decreasing support to rescue services otherwise relying on handheld radios not working very well in poor weather. But even a lot of the planned events can be done on PMR446.
I am also a Radio Amateur. I always thought that the members of Raynet, were in more need of their services. Than being able to provide them.
The American society ARRL, had the slogan. When all else fails, its Amateur Radio. An American amateur used their logo, with pictures of a Tornado, Forest Fire and Lightning strike. And used his slogan. When all else fails. Grab your stuff and run.
The American society ARRL, had the slogan. When all else fails, its Amateur Radio. An American amateur used their logo, with pictures of a Tornado, Forest Fire and Lightning strike. And used his slogan. When all else fails. Grab your stuff and run.
I've read some local Raynet group reports and they often use odd phrasing like, "We were available during X.", which doesn't actually say they were utilised during incident X.
Planned events I get, but I wouldn't consider supporting an annual air show an emergency response.
I'm aware they've had sparing using with rescue services and during floods, but my understanding is that the frequency of their support is decreasing, as rescue workers have much better and more easily-deployed resources available to them. A sat phone which connects within seconds is much more convenient than say asking the local Raynet group to scramble to set up a dipole on top of a hill somewhere. The need for such interventions is surely likely to be falling in every year.
HSTEd
Veteran Member
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As noted the VLF antenna cannot penetrate deeply, but still allows a submarine to receive communications without exposing its satellite or other radio antennas on the surface.
Typically a ballistic missile submarine will periodically go shallow to see if any messages are waiting for it - the ELF systems used by the US and Russia are used to get a submarine to come shallow early.
The final day of the Radio 4 longwave service is here - but there's an article recently posted on the BBC News website which appears to suggest that rather than closing down at the end of the R4 day at 0100 (following the 0048 Shipping Forecast), the LW service will actually close down at 0001 tomorrow morning (Saturday 27th): https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c74yn7v7k4qo (my bold)
Radio 4 continuity announcer Al Ryan commented on an Instagram post about R4 on LW yesterday that he'd be the one reading the last 0048 Shipping Forecast in the wee small hours of the morning tomorrow, so it'll be interesting to see what actually happens. I'll be staying up to listen to it, either way!
www.instagram.com
-Peter
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
And that's Radio 4 no longer on longwave! It feels weird to be tuned to 198kHz and not hear any R4 programmes - rather, there's a retune loop now, informing listeners of where else they can find Radio 4. There was a lovely send-off by the announcer Al Ryan before the service closed down for the final time. All very fitting and rather nice.
-Peter
Radio 4 continuity announcer Al Ryan commented on an Instagram post about R4 on LW yesterday that he'd be the one reading the last 0048 Shipping Forecast in the wee small hours of the morning tomorrow, so it'll be interesting to see what actually happens. I'll be staying up to listen to it, either way!
Jon Bentley on Instagram: "Today is the last chance to test the phenomenon that you can hear Big Ben’s bongs sooner over long wave Radio 4 than through direct sound waves when standing nearby in Parliament Square. You can. The sound is picked up by t
41K likes, 234 comments - jonbentley90 on June 25, 2026: "Today is the last chance to test the phenomenon that you can hear Big Ben’s bongs sooner over long wave Radio 4 than through direct sound waves when standing nearby in Parliament Square. You can. The sound is picked up by the microphone...
www.instagram.com
Jon Bentley and Al Ryan on Instagram said:
-Peter
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
And that's Radio 4 no longer on longwave! It feels weird to be tuned to 198kHz and not hear any R4 programmes - rather, there's a retune loop now, informing listeners of where else they can find Radio 4. There was a lovely send-off by the announcer Al Ryan before the service closed down for the final time. All very fitting and rather nice.
-Peter
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