Y Ddraig Coch
Established Member
Nor me, but she gave unions a run for their money, rightly or wrongly.I’m not so sure about that one.
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Cancellations on Blackpool South line on Sundays
- Thread starter chrisp37
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RailUK Forums
I don't understand the problem. Just because staff might be recruited to work Sundays does not men they could not also be required to initially work on some weekdays to shadow existing staff
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Not necessarily. They could be Sunday/bank holiday only contracts. They are not zero hours.
dk1
Veteran Member
They would be zero hours contracts as the existing staff would have to be offered all the turns first possibly leaving no jobs to cover. It would be totally against all existing agreements and the reason why it’s never happened before.
charley_17/7
Member
How come Merseyrail, which I imagine is even more unionised than Northern, can manage to have "weekend only" Train Managers (aka Guards)? Virgin West Coast at Euston also had "weekend only" Customer Service Assistants, whereby all the jobs were meant to be covered by either full time or part time crews, and they acted as "service protection" in the event of short-notice sickness or immediate disruption.
I know that Merseyside is devolved from DfT control (lucky them!), so maybe the Bee Network is an opportunity to finally resolve this? Are TPE (ex-FNW) still on Sundays outside the working week, as well as Northern?
I know that Merseyside is devolved from DfT control (lucky them!), so maybe the Bee Network is an opportunity to finally resolve this? Are TPE (ex-FNW) still on Sundays outside the working week, as well as Northern?
No doubt. However those with long memories will remember the wrangles around single-manning of freight trains, DOO in all its forms and standard 8-hour days giving way to flexible rostering all of which necessitated a bit of industrial turmoil, higher wage bill for drivers and in each case eventually the result which management had tabled. It also required strong managers with what has occasionally been described as "intestinal fortitude" and had worked their way up from the ranks, thus knowing which were genuine "shop floor" concerns and which were traditional historical "bs".
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There are other options, such as annualised hours contracts, where there is the ability to accrue the contracted number of working hours over the course of a year.
However, it does have to be said that, on the one hand saying that Sunday working is voluntary for existing staff, but on the other hand them being given first offer of any turns does sound like wanting to have their cake and eat it.
Bishops
Member
How on earth would that work then? how many people would be wanting to be recruited to a rather highly skilled job of driving a train only to be told you may or may not be working this weekend?
Thats when skill fade happens and people then make mistakes and accident shappen.
dk1
Veteran Member
It wouldn’t and that’s why it’s not done. We go round & round in circles with this every six months or so.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
London Underground has dedicated drivers for the weekend Night Tube does it not?
dk1
Veteran Member
No idea but if it does you can bet there were years & years of negotiations.
They did when Night Tube was introduced but that ceased around five years ago, with all drivers now working Night Tube services a few times a year.
Drivers on the west side have booked Sundays paid as overtime. If a driver wants a Sunday off they have to find someone to cover their boooked shift. The problems aren't caused by drivers. Guards however, their Sundays are entirely voluntary paid at a slightly higher rate than a normal day.
It's how freight driving for the smaller operators works, so it's absolutely possible. Just that the weak management at Northern and the DfT (lack of "intestinal fortitude" as @GordonT says) means that no-one is willing to tackle the issue head-on.
Bishops
Member
Ahh ok
Well it seems the only answer is to chuck money at it - and it seems no one has had the appetite to do that for 20 years
Is it ? Ive no idea how freight on the railway works to be fair i just see them pull into the sidings and run around and go back out again at Darlo
It varies depending on the FOC but certainly many operate on the concept of annualised hours to even out the busy and quiet periods (e.g. Railhead Treatment Train in the autumn and Christmas shopping containers, with spring and summer which tend to be a bit quieter). And a small number operate on a "zero hours" contract basis.Is it ? Ive no idea how freight on the railway works to be fair i just see them pull into the sidings and run around and go back out again at Darlo
Given this service, and others affected by Sunday arrangements, have long been part of Northern's franchise commitments (and the current day equivalent of that) it is reasonable to regard delivery of them as part of their existing funding envelope.
Topmandog1
Member
as a frequent user of the £12 northern newspaper rover, no, also TPE are more expensiveJust give sundays to TPE and problem may be solved
No idea where they would go to/from like but hey its a start
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if it was up to me all OLR TOC would be moved to a new company, such as northern, new management, all new contracts, nothing from Arriva Northern, Serco and such, everything new
also BPL N to liverpool on a Sunday is awful, 2 trains in the morning, chance the 2nd one will be cancelled, the old 10:37 used to always be cancelled
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