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Ever since the Elizabeth Line opened and up until around March or April this year, the escalators at Abbey Wood had to be repaired every few weeks because they basically broke down every time it rained heavily.
It would appear, however, with effect from around April 2026 that the decision may have been taken to simply leave them permanently out of service instead?
Anybody know if there are plans for a permanent fix?
Ever since the Elizabeth Line opened and up until around March or April this year, the escalators at Abbey Wood had to be repaired every few weeks because they basically broke down every time it rained heavily.
It would appear, however, with effect from around April 2026 that the decision may have been taken to simply leave them permanently out of service instead?
Anybody know if there are plans for a permanent fix?
The sign on the gate line says they’re out of service until Summer 2026 due to a fault. My guess is they’re waiting for parts for modifications to them.
The sign on the gate line says they’re out of service until Summer 2026 due to a fault. My guess is they’re waiting for parts for modifications to them.
The problem with those escalators is they weren't even new spec if I remember correctly and are also indoor escalators used essentially outdoors its no wonder they break all the time.
Abbey-Wood station seemed to be an after thought in planning, loads of things they seemed to just put in position without thought of which could be attributed to the same poor designing of Woolwich station, simply they didnt think either would be busy enough which is insanity.
One mustn't forget how long it took them to install the platform oyster readers for connecting passengers to/from Kent mainline even when it was clear long before the Elizabeth line ran that demand was going to be high. The gatelines themselves are not fit for the usage with frequent queuing especially with the downstairs gateline which only has one widegate and when the platform escalators or platform lift is out of service becomes even more used in both direction as its the route to the outside lifts that become a diversion.
A passenger that needs the escalators or lifts on the Elizabeth line platforms to go to kent would need to go outside the station use the external lifts up to the main entrance, then back into the station and use the lifts to the Kent platforms. If the lift on the Kent platform was out and the escalator then they'd genuingly have to consider skipping Abbey-Wood and either of the two are often broken.
One way Abbey Wood and Woolwich differ is that the escalators at the latter are managed by London Undergound. This is why they are a lot more reliable.
It's a shame that the same contract could not have extended to Abbey Wood, but Woolwich would be unable to function without working escalators. I can't say I have ever seen this station have it's escalators out of action which would be a disaster because of how well used Woolwich EL has turned out to be. I would imagine they would have to close the station or set it to entrance/exit only if that happened.
London Underground is a very good relatively maintainer of escalators (or their contractors are) as far as my eyes can see. There is a stark contrast just across the road from Woolwich EL to Woolwich Arsenal DLR where the escalators have been out of use the last couple of times I've visited there, and London Bridge (NR) which can't seem to go a couple of months without having at least one of its' escalators out of action. And of course you have the horror that is was Cutty Sark DLR...
DLR Lifts and Escalators are serviced by Keolis Amey Docklands Limited.
On the London Overground network, lifts and escalators along the East London Line from Dalston Junction and Surrey Quays are serviced by Cleshar. All other lift and escalator assets on the London Overground network are serviced by Network Rail.
On the Elizabeth Line, escalators are serviced by Otis, and lifts are serviced by Kone. Lifts and escalators at the Great Eastern stations on the Elizabeth Line are serviced by Network Rail. Orona services the lift at the Plumstead depot.
For London Underground, lifts and escalators are maintained by Kone, Otis and Schindler. Please see the attached documents which provide information on the areas of responsibility for these companies.
On another note, I remember a request that detailed that the escalators at Hammersmith Bus Station were also managed by LU but I can't seem to find that now. And it is also interesting to contrast the failure of escalators and lifts on the TL core - Blackfriars, City Thameslink and St Pancras low level have very unreliable escalators and lifts. It's clear which organisation here cares more about this issue. Of course, Farringdon is the only station with all of that equipment operational at the moment. That said, and also again, escalators tend to be integral to the operation of Underground stations which is not necessarily the case for comparative stations.
I wonder if since the TL programme was completed there's ever been a point where all the escalators and lifts on the core were operational ?
Abbey-Wood station seemed to be an after thought in planning, loads of things they seemed to just put in position without thought of which could be attributed to the same poor designing of Woolwich station, simply they didnt think either would be busy enough which is insanity.
I agree. Even on the opening day I thought AW hadn't enough capacity.
It's like it's an intermediate station that wasn't fully rethought when early on it became the terminus.
Woolwich’s escalators are in indoor conditions while Abbey Wood’s are outdoors. It just isn’t true to say that the maintenance is the specific reason why. Abbey Wood’s are exposed to very harsh conditions and vast temperature variation, which will have a huge effect on reliability, especially if as other posters have suggested they are meant for indoors.
I would agree maintenance will play some part, and that Network Rail are not particularly good at it, but also note in your Cutty Sark example that’s perhaps a better example of why choosing the right type of escalator is important.
Also worth noting that the, as mentioned in the foi itself, the escalators at Woolwich are serviced by London Underground, they have no responsibility for Woolwich, but they are included in the list Underground list because it is a similar/the same contract as the Underground’s.
A passenger that needs the escalators or lifts on the Elizabeth line platforms to go to kent would need to go outside the station use the external lifts up to the main entrance, then back into the station and use the lifts to the Kent platforms.
The whole set of Elizabeth Line stations on the branch seem designed without any thought at all for interchanging passengers. The nonsense at Custom House for those changing from DLR being overcharged have been covered here since the earliest times, but it STILL has not been addressed, and it still has amateurish hand-written whiteboards telling you to touch out from the DLR, when no such readers to touch out on exist.
What a contrast with the Victoria Line, which was designed with such thought for ease of interchanging. The rot started to set in with the Jubilee Line Extension when the platforms started to be placed as far away from other lines as possible, and I always suspected these were not even included on the drawings.
What a contrast with the Victoria Line, which was designed with such thought for ease of interchanging. The rot started to set in with the Jubilee Line Extension when the platforms started to be placed as far away from other lines as possible, and I always suspected these were not even included on the drawings.
IIRC the length of interchanges and general entrance/exits is a deliberate choice. I think the idea is that it spreads people out much more and prevents overcrowding.
Obviously as a user definitely not something I appreciate.
IIRC the length of interchanges and general entrance/exits is a deliberate choice. I think the idea is that it spreads people out much more and prevents overcrowding.
Obviously as a user definitely not something I appreciate.
Later extensions to the network are increasingly being forced to squeeze platforms into non-optimum locations, either by line alignments or by sheer lack of subterranean space .e.g. Kings Cross {Victoria}, Green Park {Jubilee} and Waterloo {Jubilee}. It's true that some signed interchange routes have been created to manage the largest of interchange flows, but comments here are based on knowledge of faster possible routes used by experienced travellers. That's always been the case, in the '60s I regularly used the shortcuts at TCR between Northern Line and Central Line using the one way path at the foot of the main escalators.
Wasn't the need for the escalators at Abbey Wood to operate outdoors have been noticed when the spec for building and maintaining them was drawn up?!! Of course, a higher spec is needed. Particularly here, as the height difference is quite significant thus making it much more of a problem when the escalators breakdown (as they seem to have been doing more or less since the EL opened...)!!! Not one of TfL's finest projects, me thinks (despite all the spin about how brilliant they are...)
Later extensions to the network are increasingly being forced to squeeze platforms into non-optimum locations, either by line alignments or by sheer lack of subterranean space .e.g. Kings Cross {Victoria}, Green Park {Jubilee} and Waterloo {Jubilee}. It's true that some signed interchange routes have been created to manage the largest of interchange flows, but comments here are based on knowledge of faster possible routes used by experienced travellers. That's always been the case, in the '60s I regularly used the shortcuts at TCR between Northern Line and Central Line using the one way path at the foot of the main escalators.
May be true in the central area, but the worst recent cases tend to be in outlying areas. The JLE interchange with the District at West Ham, where the tips of the island platforms are nearly on top of each other and would have suited a single stairway and lift, nevertheless requires three different escalators and considerable walking. And the architect won an award for the layout!
A passenger that needs the escalators or lifts on the Elizabeth line platforms to go to kent would need to go outside the station use the external lifts up to the main entrance, then back into the station and use the lifts to the Kent platforms. If the lift on the Kent platform was out and the escalator then they'd genuingly have to consider skipping Abbey-Wood and either of the two are often broken.
Not quite. They could use the lift from the Elizabeth Line platforms to the main upper ticket hall, then the other lift down to the SE platforms. No need to go out of the station.
Wasn't the need for the escalators at Abbey Wood to operate outdoors have been noticed when the spec for building and maintaining them was drawn up?!! Of course, a higher spec is needed. Particularly here, as the height difference is quite significant thus making it much more of a problem when the escalators breakdown (as they seem to have been doing more or less since the EL opened...)!!! Not one of TfL's finest projects, me thinks (despite all the spin about how brilliant they are...)
The redevelopment of Abbey Wood was delivered by Network Rail not TfL. Using escalators in inappropriate places for their design is not new, they did the exact same thing at Reading.
Not quite. They could use the lift from the Elizabeth Line platforms to the main upper ticket hall, then the other lift down to the SE platforms. No need to go out of the station.
From my previous paragraph this was insinuating that the lifts and escalators on platfomr 3 and 4 were out which happens quite commonly. You'd indeed have to leave the station.
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The whole set of Elizabeth Line stations on the branch seem designed without any thought at all for interchanging passengers. The nonsense at Custom House for those changing from DLR being overcharged have been covered here since the earliest times, but it STILL has not been addressed, and it still has amateurish hand-written whiteboards telling you to touch out from the DLR, when no such readers to touch out on exist.
What a contrast with the Victoria Line, which was designed with such thought for ease of interchanging. The rot started to set in with the Jubilee Line Extension when the platforms started to be placed as far away from other lines as possible, and I always suspected these were not even included on the drawings.
That custom house issue was massive money maker because of the charges it would hit unsuspecting travellers all because of a poor design indeed.
Woolwich was technically designed without thought as they originally weren't even going to build it, council had to push really hard for it as it was absurd how they intended to skip both plumstead and a big catchment area like Woolwich to go straight to Abbey-Wood which was already dealing with Thamesmead and its own catchment area.
Woolwich then when accepted they didn't believe it would be busy enough to warrant a second plumstead side entrance and so decided for the box with the one entrance, the second entrance equipment and foundation left incase it was needed but now that it indeed has shown they're planning was wrong they're still resolute on allowing new high-rises to be built on the second entrance area.
Abbey-Wood enough has been said about it but even the fact that an extension of the line would mean smashing through the lower concourse meaning it goes from an already overcapacity two entrances to one is just another blunder.
Both existing gatelines need extra gates which wont happen till bigger issues occur and if they were to do any extensions and take that lower concourse out, id assume they'd have to use the overhead walkways. An entrance from street level to accommodate could be possible, at one point it was done temporarily using the now driver and staff carpark area.
A single gateline at Abbey-Wood would be a big downgrade compared to the old station that had two for two platforms that only served southeastern at the time.
Abbey-Wood enough has been said about it but even the fact that an extension of the line would mean smashing through the lower concourse meaning it goes from an already overcapacity two entrances to one is just another blunder.
Platform 3 at Abbey Wood already has a connection to the North Kent line through the siding.
I would imagine platform 4 being kept as a bay platform, then a flat crossing on the western side of the station with Platform 3 being the through Eastbound Elizabeth line towards Dartford.
Just my idea, but could prove a simple-ish connection is possible without demolishing the downstairs gate line.
Platform 3 at Abbey Wood already has a connection to the North Kent line through the siding.
I would imagine platform 4 being kept as a bay platform, then a flat crossing on the western side of the station with Platform 3 being the through Eastbound Elizabeth line towards Dartford.
Just my idea, but could prove a simple-ish connection is possible without demolishing the downstairs gate line.
I also believe that would be the only way too, depends on the service frequency i guess. But indeed its clear there was a lot of negative planning for custom house, Woolwich and Abbey-Wood which at the time may have been to save costs but now will prove expensive when required to modify which for almost all 3 is very soon if not now
I also believe that would be the only way too, depends on the service frequency i guess. But indeed its clear there was a lot of negative planning for custom house, Woolwich and Abbey-Wood which at the time may have been to save costs but now will prove expensive when required to modify which for almost all 3 is very soon if not now
It's crazy that Woolwich only has one exit and it's crazy that it dumps passengers on what, for 90% of them, is the wrong side of the A206. As far as I can tell they haven't even rephased the traffic lights to make it easier to get across - they just widened the crossings to provide more room for pedestrians to wait for cars to go first. It needs at least two entrances. If it were up to me I'd have created a new public realm about 18' above the level of the A206, onto which the western entrance would have led, which would have extended from the station, over the A206 and sloped gently down over what is now Beresford Square and into the town centre.
As it is, I rather suspect the developers on the Royal Arsenal site quite like having the A206 as a sort of a barrier separating their overpriced flats from the rest of Woolwich.
It's crazy that Woolwich only has one exit and it's crazy that it dumps passengers on what, for 90% of them, is the wrong side of the A206. As far as I can tell they haven't even rephased the traffic lights to make it easier to get across - they just widened the crossings to provide more room for pedestrians to wait for cars to go first. It needs at least two entrances. If it were up to me I'd have created a new public realm about 18' above the level of the A206, onto which the western entrance would have led, which would have extended from the station, over the A206 and sloped gently down over what is now Beresford Square and into the town centre.
As it is, I rather suspect the developers on the Royal Arsenal site quite like having the A206 as a sort of a barrier separating their overpriced flats from the rest of Woolwich.
Indeed, when I used to regularly commute from woolwich you'd hear several horns because people would cross on the green man but not realise the buses were given greens to turn in.
Surprised with how close people came to being hit that none ever did.
Woolwich was technically designed without thought as they originally weren't even going to build it, council had to push really hard for it as it was absurd how they intended to skip both plumstead and a big catchment area like Woolwich to go straight to Abbey-Wood which was already dealing with Thamesmead and its own catchment area.
Woolwich then when accepted they didn't believe it would be busy enough to warrant a second plumstead side entrance and so decided for the box with the one entrance, the second entrance equipment and foundation left incase it was needed but now that it indeed has shown they're planning was wrong they're still resolute on allowing new high-rises to be built on the second entrance area.
That and that it wasn’t a part of the initial scope and was funded separately to the rest of the project by the developer, council and TfL, money was a lot more tight.
It's crazy that Woolwich only has one exit and it's crazy that it dumps passengers on what, for 90% of them, is the wrong side of the A206. As far as I can tell they haven't even rephased the traffic lights to make it easier to get across - they just widened the crossings to provide more room for pedestrians to wait for cars to go first. It needs at least two entrances. If it were up to me I'd have created a new public realm about 18' above the level of the A206, onto which the western entrance would have led, which would have extended from the station, over the A206 and sloped gently down over what is now Beresford Square and into the town centre.
I'm only going by anecdote here, but I tend to find there to be a demographic split between the passengers that use the old Arsenal station (living south of the A206) and those who use the flashy new Elizabeth Line station (north of the A206). Maybe the station is fueling regeneration on the Royal Arsenal side (it even has a Gail's for goodness sake) but not doing as much for the other side.
This is off topic, I know, but an interesting conversation.
That and that it wasn’t a part of the initial scope and was funded separately to the rest of the project by the developer, council and TfL, money was a lot more tight.
I'm only going by anecdote here, but I tend to find there to be a demographic split between the passengers that use the old Arsenal station (living south of the A206) and those who use the flashy new Elizabeth Line station (north of the A206). Maybe the station is fueling regeneration on the Royal Arsenal side (it even has a Gail's for goodness sake) but not doing as much for the other side.
This is off topic, I know, but an interesting conversation.
Half of the reason ots not doing much for the otherside is the access / connection to the otherside for one. Whilst as mentioned above it was an afterthought station, woolwich could have had some type of tunnelled entrance that lead to Beresford square or the DLR entrance or at least a better way for those crossing the main road from the Elizabeth line station to get to the main side of Woolwich.
Just seems from the outside(with no knowledge) that they wanted to clearly seperate the Elizabeth Line station side from the rest of Woolwich. Wasn't any proper integration other than in the name.
From my previous paragraph this was insinuating that the lifts and escalators on platfomr 3 and 4 were out which happens quite commonly. You'd indeed have to leave the station.
Just seems from the outside(with no knowledge) that they wanted to clearly seperate the Elizabeth Line station side from the rest of Woolwich. Wasn't any proper integration other than in the name.
And it seems paradoxical that the SE station is named Woolwich Arsenal although it's not on former Arsenal land, while Woolwich station actually is on the old Arsenal... Apologies for OT remark!
And it seems paradoxical that the SE station is named Woolwich Arsenal although it's not on former Arsenal land, while Woolwich station actually is on the old Arsenal... Apologies for OT remark!
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