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2U 'Not valid before 0415' restriction

T

TUC

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Looking for Todmorden-Glasgow fares I noticed that the Off-Peak 'via Manchester' Return includes restriction code 2U, which means 'Not valid on trains scheduled to depart before 04:15'. https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=TOD&dest=0433&rte=312&tkt=SVR

Given that the only overnight weekday service I can see from Todmorden is an 0018, with a wait of over three hours in Manchester, I can't see much uptake being likely for that option. In the reverse direction, the first service from Glasgow Central is at 0428, which begs the question of just what is the purpose behind the restriction?
 
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Watershed

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In the fares data, the restriction is actually not between 02:30 and 04:15 so it barely affects any trains at all.

It’s a de-facto unrestricted ticket, the only real purpose of using 2U over 2T is that there is a break of journey restriction.
 
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Timbo999

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Doesn't the existence of a substantially more expensive anytime fare come into play if someone is travelling without a ticket?
 
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jfollows

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Timbo999 said:
Doesn't the existence of a substantially more expensive anytime fare come into play if someone is travelling without a ticket?
Click to expand...
In what way?
If a person is stopped without a valid ticket, one of the remedies can be a report for prosecution, and one of the outcomes can be an out of court settlement based on the price of anytime single fares, so that may be what you mean.
 
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tutacre

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jfollows said:
In what way?
If a person is stopped without a valid ticket, one of the remedies can be a report for prosecution, and one of the outcomes can be an out of court settlement based on the price of anytime single fares, so that may be what you mean.
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Even without prosecution, boarding a train without a valid ticket, when facilities exist, the Train Manager should be selling the full price Anytime fare. It would obviously also be used for debt recovery and enforcement later too.
 
kieron

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Having a 2U restriction means that someone in the government could come along one day and decide that it would be in the national interest to change it to 2V or something. It's a little more complicated when there isn't an anytime return in the system.
 
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pepperpot80

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Presumably the 2U might originally have been to prevent use on the Caledonian Sleeper at Preston (setting aside the viability of that connection in the current timetable).
 
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pepperpot80 said:
Presumably the 2U might originally have been to prevent use on the Caledonian Sleeper at Preston (setting aside the viability of that connection in the current timetable).
Click to expand...

Usually it's just an in effect unrestricted off peak which they typically were before privatisation if they didn't involve London. I doubt it was specifically intended to prevent that, though it does I believe.

There are quite a few codes like this with a time restriction that has no practical effect.
 
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'Not valid on trains scheduled to depart before 04:15' does beg the question 'depart from where'? Todmorden, or the boarding station for a change of train, or the time that a service departed its origin station?
 
RJ

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kieron said:
Having a 2U restriction means that someone in the government could come along one day and decide that it would be in the national interest to change it to 2V or something. It's a little more complicated when there isn't an anytime return in the system.
Click to expand...

They don't even have to go to all that trouble - the TOCs have free will to edit the data to add conditions as and when they please. This happened with code BT around about the time I was using Off Peak tickets with that code to travel from St Pancras to Loughborough in the morning peak. I had to move on to the next extra value Off Peak fare to keep costs down for travelling at that time of day.
 
kieron

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pepperpot80 said:
Presumably the 2U might originally have been to prevent use on the Caledonian Sleeper at Preston (setting aside the viability of that connection in the current timetable).
Click to expand...
There may be a reason for using 2U here, as they use 2U for fares between Todmorden (and Walsden) and Glasgow, but 2T for ones from Burnley and Littleborough. I suppose they were more worried about people breaking their journeys at the time this was implemented, but I don't know why.
RJ said:
They don't even have to go to all that trouble - the TOCs have free will to edit the data to add conditions as and when they please.
Click to expand...
They could if they wanted to change every ticket with that restriction code. They probably won't; Crosscountry still price 8X fares, after all.
 
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kieron said:
There may be a reason for using 2U here, as they use 2U for fares between Todmorden (and Walsden) and Glasgow, but 2T for ones from Burnley and Littleborough. I suppose they were more worried about people breaking their journeys at the time this was implemented, but I don't know why.
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Break of journey restrictions are mostly used to prevent fare undercutting, often where restrictions on a longer journey are less harsh than a shorter one. An example is the WCML, where fares from Euston to places north of Preston (but not Preston itself) have BoJ restrictions to avoid the less restrictive tickets being used for journeys to/from Preston, Manchester etc ending short. Everything Preston and south carries roughly the same restrictions so there is no BoJ restriction on those.
 
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