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Toilets (or lack of them) on some modern trains. What lessons should be learned?
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I think I am the same - it would have to be a desperate situation. They are gross. But in my 20s, no doubt some boozy times with many cans at a table...
My first thought was to cross one's legs, but yes. See a loo, go. Plan it into your travel plans and arrival at station / pee in adjacent pub.
And I agree, all main and busy stations should have toilets. And we as a country should be able to not trash them and maintain them to a decent level.
Tetragon213
Member
Not having loos onboard is a very dangerous proposition. Lewisham 2018, anyone?
The lack of toilets on board the involved units heavily factored into the passengers deciding to detrain themselves in third rail country with rails still live, and after 2+ hours with no access to toilets and other passengers either soiling themselves or using the New York taxi driver's trick, I honestly can't blame them. An important lesson in general is that passengers will only put up with so much, and lack of toilet provision will, in the event of severe disruption, likely result in passengers detraining.
The lack of toilets on board the involved units heavily factored into the passengers deciding to detrain themselves in third rail country with rails still live, and after 2+ hours with no access to toilets and other passengers either soiling themselves or using the New York taxi driver's trick, I honestly can't blame them. An important lesson in general is that passengers will only put up with so much, and lack of toilet provision will, in the event of severe disruption, likely result in passengers detraining.
That, in fairness, is also an argument for better incident management - especially as some loos won't work if the electricity has failed.
If that is true, we must close the London Underground immediately!
Howardh
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I do occasionally carry with me one of those extendable emergency bottles, fortunately never had to use them, but could do discretely if I had to. Thinking more of airport queues when travelling solo, but would come in handy if, as alluded to, a train breaks down and toilets out if operation.
There are also bags which can be, er, liquidated, and turn solid. Maybe trains could carry a box of those as a "just in case" scenario? Could be useful for staff too!
There are also bags which can be, er, liquidated, and turn solid. Maybe trains could carry a box of those as a "just in case" scenario? Could be useful for staff too!
Brightonboy
Member
Speaking as an 'aging' male who has to take meds that can sometimes generate excess water, sometimes with considerable urgency (a friend on very similar meds described it as 'near incontinence'), the availability of toilets on trains (or readily and frequently available on platforms vs hidden away on the concourse) is something I take into account when planning rail journeys now.
What should also be taken into account is the balance between providing sufficient toilets on a train and the impact of having to withdraw and clean stock should someone have the misfortune to be unavoidably 'caught short' en-route. With an aging, increasingly medicated, population, the numbers of travellers fit enough to travel provided the 'facilities' support them is growing and shouldn't be ignored.
What should also be taken into account is the balance between providing sufficient toilets on a train and the impact of having to withdraw and clean stock should someone have the misfortune to be unavoidably 'caught short' en-route. With an aging, increasingly medicated, population, the numbers of travellers fit enough to travel provided the 'facilities' support them is growing and shouldn't be ignored.
Mikey C
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On packed commuter trains, it's virtually impossible to reach the toilets anyway, so toilets on the 345s would be fairly pointless. Off peak is different of course, but then the stations mainly have toilets along the route, and being a TfL service, the trains are fairly regular anyway if you do need to get off.
On longer journeys (over an hour) the toilets are always well used. And to be fair to the railways, generally in fairly decent condition.
Even on "inter city" journeys?
On longer journeys (over an hour) the toilets are always well used. And to be fair to the railways, generally in fairly decent condition.
Spot on, sir, spot on.
Not to mention that any attempt to take action against an individual for such an "accident" could get very, very, ugly legally very fast.
Howardh
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My tactic on getting on the train is to sit/stand as close to the loo as possible, no matter how packed! So even on packed routes they still serve their purpose.
The toilets are very important evenings and weekends, particularly on long commuter routes (the North Kent line springs to mind).
I'm reminded of visiting friends in the Kingston area of South West London a few years ago. No toilets on the 455's and the only facilities at the local stations were disabled toilets accessible only with a key.
Falcon1200
Established Member
Until the withdrawal of Scotrail's Class 314 sets in 2019 the standard train type on the Cathcart Circle/Newton/Neilston routes were these, and before them Classes 303/311, none of which had toilets. In fact, the first ScR EMUs to have toilets was Class 318 from 1986. Things have now turned full circle with every Scotrail unit, diesel or electric, having toilets, albeit in many cases just one per set. Which is OK until it is out of service, not uncommon.
Radar keys are sold cheaply on Amazon. I strongly encourage anyone remotely at unease to buy a pack and see what difference access to these toilets has on their worry.
Tetragon213
Member
Indeed, while men can use the New York taxi driver's trick without much difficulty during extreme disruption, that is typically not an option for women.
To be fair, Southeastern didn't do a fantastic job of managing the situation back then. However, I strongly suspect that toilet provision would have at least discouraged detrainment on the grounds of "I'm quite literally going to soil myself, so I'm bailing".
I don't recall a London Underground equivalent of Lewisham 2018, but I suspect they have far better contingencies for making sure pax aren't stranded for 3+ hours during inclement weather. That, plus the short nature of most LU journeys, makes it a less dicey (but still potentially risky) proposition.
The RAIB report into the Kentish Town detrainment (2011) highlights that London Underground have different protocols for managing incidents like this. It's fair to assume that, had this incident happened on the Tube (tunnel or open air), a coordinated detrainment would have happened before the self-evacuations.
45669
Member
I thought trains had lavatories. They did in my day.
Which ones?
Egg Centric
Established Member
What I would like to understand is why some people are such pigs with public toilets. This isn't a new thing by any means (there's a fun quote from the Young Ones which is from before I was even born where Adrian says "I'm going off now to stuff loads and loads of paper down the toilet" - fun because it's absolutely bloody true, we've all experienced toilets like this) and seems pretty universal, so there must be some kind of explanation for it. If we understood this strange phenomena and how to combat it then so long as there's some toilets on trains then we don't really need that many. It's basically this weirdness which causes the problem.
Certainly in the era of the Young Ones the toilets would run out of water, meaning that paper would build up and couldn't be flushed away. Not sure if that happens so much with the vacuum type.
My bugbear is people peeing all over the floor. One can understand the odd splash when going over points, but sometimes it's like the Poseidon Adventure in there.
duffield
Established Member
Of course not all of it is urine. I've quite frequently come across washbasins where the taps spray all over the place and make the floor into a swamp, or where a sudden spurt from the tap can easily deflect off your hands onto the floor.
Thats a comforting thought !
I would go as far as saying that it is ages since I’ve encountered an on-train washbasin in the UK that didn’t decant water onto the floor!
It's also up your sleeves and all over the damned place.
I must admit that l normally use sanitiser for exactly that reason.