GRALISTAIR
Established Member
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Hitachi Factory - First Group order 14 new trains with options for 13 more
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lrbvoyager
Member
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So the Stirling to Euston route will get class 808s? Are these 5 coaches?
There is no new trains ordered for the Stirling route.
The trains ordered are for East Coast Lumo and for Hull Trains.
And Great Western Lumo too…
Ah yes I forgot the Carmarthen service.
lrbvoyager
Member
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When I watched one of the interviews about the upcoming services one of the reps said that the new trains ordered were for the Stirling route aswell.
jamiestuart314
Member
Yep I agree, not too sure about the unit classification though.. could be true
cj_1985
Member
They won't order for the Stirling service unless their access agreement is extended beyond 2030
222001
Member
I suppose it is possible that they could take from the order already made. 14 trains is a lot, and it's always puzzled me how they'd be allocated out, as I believe the Carmarthen service will only need around 5 sets. That leaves 9 for 'extra capacity'. Unless they start doubling up a lot of other services, or off lease some of their current trains on the ECML route, that's a lot remaining.
The plan is to double up some sets at Lumo east coast and at Hull Trains
They’ll be split 3 ways across Lumo EC, Hull Trains and Lumo GW. The main goal for the former 2 is to double up services and provide additional capacity
lrbvoyager
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Are they all going to be bi mode and the same class? Or is HT getting more 802s,Lumo EC getting more pure electric 803s and Lumo GW getting some form of bi mode? Could anyone explain?
cj_1985
Member
My money would be on the Lumo GW units being Bi mode electric + Battery units (not like the 803s), such as has been mentioned for the Stirling service IF their access agreement does get extended...
but reading through the responses on thr ORR site... reads like carbon copy DfT spec 'anti OAO' hate across the board on almost every point... doesn't fill me with confidence
Indeed, given the obvious threat to GBR from just the sentiment of comments in the House of Commons debate yesterday, open access is fairly likely not to continue. However, given one of the safeguards being put forward is TUPE of staff to GBR, it may be imagined that any rolling stock will have a future with GBR once the open access operators are gone.
YorksLad12
Established Member
Why not order 7- or 9-car sets, if new? Or will some of the new units be stabled somewhere out of the peaks?
cj_1985
Member
i would imagine that having units in 5 car formations offers options to , in the future, operate additional services, as well as add further capacity to existing services. If you order 9 cars, you'd be stuck with a long train and remove flexibility for operations
I don't understand the DFT point of view here, OAO are plugging gaps in the market that the TOC's aren't, if the DTF are so anti OAO, why are they not providing the TOC's with the funding to plug the gaps themselves?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Yes lets take the discussion of wider considerations around Open Access Operators to the new thread helpfully started by @Bletchleyite and keep this one to what we know is happening which is the order of new trains for First Group's stable of OAOs. Thanks!