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Project Oval: TfL win DfT contract to expand contactless system to 233 rail stations by May 2024, Railcards coming to contactless payment cards

higthomas

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I don't share his view on that as I don't believe many people with a railcard (or eligible for one) would use contactless just because it's convenient.

I certainly know a fair few people who are eligible for and in some cases already have have a Railcard who can't be bothered with the faff of getting an Oyster and adding the Railcard to it. Even when I chat through the costs with them they decide it isn't worth it to them.
 
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martin2345uk

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Have they actually said if there’s a timeline for adding railcards to this system? I have the Network railcard so can’t use contactless from Chelmsford even though I’d quite like to try it…
 

wibble

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Don't worry, I'm sure TfL will make the process of linking a Railcard with a contactless account about as painful as possible when they eventually get around to bothering.

You'll probably have to show the Railcard to someone in person to get the request to link approved...
If it's a digital railcard, you should be able to do all of it online. Create an account on the TfL website, add your payment card/device, add your railcard number (which TfL validate with RDG) and away you go.
 

JonathanH

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Have they actually said if there’s a timeline for adding railcards to this system? I have the Network railcard so can’t use contactless from Chelmsford even though I’d quite like to try it…
No timeline, and they haven't confirmed that Network Railcard would give a discount either (noting that it doesn't give a discount on Oyster fares and the practical issue of minimum fares).
 

CyrusWuff

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No timeline, and they haven't confirmed that Network Railcard would give a discount either (noting that it doesn't give a discount on Oyster fares and the practical issue of minimum fares).
Almost certain that Network, Family & Friends and Two Together Railcards will be out of scope for Contactless for the same reasons they're out of scope for Oyster.
 

MrJeeves

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I certainly know a fair few people who are eligible for and in some cases already have have a Railcard who can't be bothered with the faff of getting an Oyster and adding the Railcard to it. Even when I chat through the costs with them they decide it isn't worth it to them.
I know some people who live in London who can't be bothered! Bewildering to me.
 

PeterC

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I know some people who live in London who can't be bothered! Bewildering to me.
Just for Underground and Lizzie Line services I at least cover costs with my railcard linked to Oyster. National Rail journeys, with paper or online tickets, are a bonus.
 

sammyg901

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Network railcard really should be in scope - contactless covers a wider area than Oyster ever did and the minimum fare should not be an issue with back end calculation

The F&F / two-together is a bit more of an issue but technology wise would be feasible to add the payment cards and have the discounts applied when the same journey is conducted with both cards
 

Adam Williams

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Yes, if the will was there you could easily check that they were tapped in at the same gates within e.g 60 seconds of each other.
 

Bletchleyite

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Network also offers the same group discounts as F&F but without the minimum requirement for an adult or a child (but subject to the minimum fare). Though I expect this is a very niche use case of it and a lot of people probably don't even know it does.
 

swt_passenger

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Network railcard really should be in scope - contactless covers a wider area than Oyster ever did and the minimum fare should not be an issue with back end calculation

The F&F / two-together is a bit more of an issue but technology wise would be feasible to add the payment cards and have the discounts applied when the same journey is conducted with both cards
There’d still be a problem with Network Card ‘other adults and children’ feature.
 

Bletchleyite

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There’d still be a problem with Network Card ‘other adults and children’ feature.

Great minds :)

You could of course not support that, though, and just offer individual discounts, as that's what most users will be doing. Better to partially support it than not support it at all.

There is presumably also an issue with Disabled Railcard companions, but they still support that Railcard.
 

sammyg901

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Back end calculation doesn't exist yet even for supported railcards. It is only for 'full fare' Oyster Cards.
Yes, I mean once contactless supports railcards at all !

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Network also offers the same group discounts as F&F but without the minimum requirement for an adult or a child (but subject to the minimum fare). Though I expect this is a very niche use case of it and a lot of people probably don't even know it does.

In theory this could be the same as F&F railcards, add it to any card that is travelling and if they travel at the same time then apply the fare.

The challenge is going to be validation, if railcards were all digital and all systems interlinked then feasible. If someone is carrying a plastic network railcard and anyone is allowed to set the flag in their account that they have one then that becomes challenging unless barriers/revenue staff also get upgrades to see that a card has a discount flag on it.

Especially network railcard as it's any group of adults - you might set it once when travelling with a friend who has one then forget to change it back and continue to get the discount - potentially for years based on how often anyone looks at mine!
 
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david1212

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If it's a digital railcard, you should be able to do all of it online. Create an account on the TfL website, add your payment card/device, add your railcard number (which TfL validate with RDG) and away you go.
....
The challenge is going to be validation, if railcards were all digital and all systems interlinked then feasible. If someone is carrying a plastic network railcard and anyone is allowed to set the flag in their account that they have one then that becomes challenging unless barriers/revenue staff also get upgrades to see that a card has a discount flag on it.
....
Looking at an image search for UK railcard each 'proper' physical card has a unique number, although it includes letters!
This has to keyed in and validated rather than just setting a flag.

Group travel with one railcard and several payment cards is always going to be an issue not least children who either just have a 'pocket money' card or do not have a card at all. Travel only cards linked to one travel account that has the railcard linked and ultimately charge to one bank account would work but be cumbersome plus open to misuse without safeguards e.g. only work gateline for a short time after the 'master' card is presented.
 

MikeWh

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Yes, if the will was there you could easily check that they were tapped in at the same gates within e.g 60 seconds of each other.
So two people travelling, one goes to the train to get settled in with 10 minutes to spare, the other goes to the toilet or a coffee shop and touches in 5 minutes later. You could compare touches all day, but there would need to be decisions made. One half of a two together might do more travel in the evening which shouldn't invalidate earlier travel together, but how would capping work? Lots to think about.
There’d still be a problem with Network Card ‘other adults and children’ feature.
Same as the gold card, other passengers don't get it.
 

Bletchleyite

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I think realistically the multi-passenger Railcards are too complex to implement. But the Family and Friends is the only one where multiple-passenger is mandatory. You could certainly implement all the others for single-passenger only.
 

Hadders

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Same as the gold card, other passengers don't get it.
And the Disabled Persons Railcard. Discount only available for the card holder when using Oyster, not a companion.
 

jfollows

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I certainly know a fair few people who are eligible for and in some cases already have have a Railcard who can't be bothered with the faff of getting an Oyster and adding the Railcard to it. Even when I chat through the costs with them they decide it isn't worth it to them.
Me, I visit London once every 3 months and don’t want an Oyster card. It’s pathetic that it’s still not possible with contactless but I’m going to put up with it until 2024 or 2034 when it’s enabled. For the occasional slight saving it’s not worth it. Of course if I lived in London I would do it.
 

PeterC

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Me, I visit London once every 3 months and don’t want an Oyster card. It’s pathetic that it’s still not possible with contactless but I’m going to put up with it until 2024 or 2034 when it’s enabled. For the occasional slight saving it’s not worth it. Of course if I lived in London I would do it.
Ideally that should have been sorted before trying to extend the system across much of the South East. Sadly that didn't fit in with the political imperative from Whitehall.
 

davews

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New validators have been put in place at Winnersh Triangle (by the entrance to the platforms) and Winnersh (by the ticket kiosk). They are not yet in service. Pictured is the one at Winnersh.

Image shows a validator shielded by a blue plastic cover. The top of the validator is about head height. On the cover is a notice reading: This validator will be in service shortly.
The new scanner at Martins Heron platform 1 is now in use and can be used for SWR smart cards (only) replacing the old yellow scanner. Presumably if and when oval reaches out there it will also accept bank cards.
 
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MikeWh

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There has been a development. https://oysterfares.com/all-oyster-cards-now-re-calculate-overnight/
A few years ago TfL introduced retrospective weekly capping for blue adult Oyster cards without any discounts. This meant that each days journeys were run through the same back-office function as is used to calculate daily and weekly charges for contactless cards and devices. At the time it was stated that discounted Oyster cards would follow, but that seemed to be taking forever. Until now.

It actually started on December 7th 2025.
This means that the back office now understands discounted fares, which has probably been one of the stumbling blocks.
 

Edvid

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I found another pair of standalone validators covered in blue plastic at Greenhithe yesterday (picture below), though I'm interested to know if any have appeared at the Medway stations yet.

IMG_20260516_133214474_HDRe.jpg

the back office now understands discounted fares, which has probably been one of the stumbling blocks
...to enabling contactless Railcard-discounted fares? Or something else?
 
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An SWR poster advising that contactless cannot be used to Ascot has appeared at Reading.

IMG_6096.jpeg

Image shows an SWR poster headed Going to Royal Ascot? and stating: The following are NOT valid for travel to Ascot on South Western Railway services: Oyster cards - Freedom passes - Contactless payment cards. It is situated between the entrance to platform 4 and the entrance to platforms 5 and 6.
 

swt_passenger

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An SWR poster advising that contactless cannot be used to Ascot has appeared at Reading.

Image shows an SWR poster headed Going to Royal Ascot? and stating: The following are NOT valid for travel to Ascot on South Western Railway services: Oyster cards - Freedom passes - Contactless payment cards. It is situated between the entrance to platform 4 and the entrance to platforms 5 and 6.
Not a new idea, they have been put up in previous years as well. There’s been discussions about the penalty fares people were charged after ignoring the signs and announcements Eg here last year:
 
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Yes they are up all along the line. I have seen them at Feltham, Twickenham and Richmond. Prevention of accidental problems. Stops deniability of not knowing.
 

talldave

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There's a poster at Staines reminding customers that Oyster isn't valid there.
 

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