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ScotRail Stopgap Stock: What COULD be used to replace an aging fleet?

Strathclyder

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The chances of any 458s coming north for a reforming and/or expansion of the 334 fleet is as good as nil, especially now. If any currently out of use stock is going to come up and supplement the ScR Mk3 EMU fleet if the need were dire enough, it would be the 350/2s, since all the remaining 321s not scooped up by Varamis that could've been 320/4-ed have long since gone to the scrappers, they're all that's left that's even remotely suitable in such a scenario.

What helps here is that, despite their advancing age and as has already been pointed out, they've seen regular overhauls/refurbs over the years - and thus are in pretty good nick. Perfectly acceptable for the rest of the decade, though I would expect to finally see some more progress on getting their permanent replacements ordered within the next year or two (after all the 222s have entered service I suspect, to give a sense of the timescales I'm thinking of); at the very least a tender list of potential manufacturers being issued.

The most likely outcome here though is the 318s/320s seeing out the 2020s, with the 318s handily surpassing the 303s service record (42 years); at the current rate it's very likely they'll end up racking up more years in service overall than the Met-Cam Subway stock did (44 years). They'll hit the 40 year mark this September coming while both 320 variants will hit their 36-37th birthdays this year. Both are the sole standard-bearers of the Mk3-based EMU family in regular passenger service and the 318s may very well end up racking up the most years in service out of any of them (or come pretty close to doing so).
 
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Transilien

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The chances of any 458s coming north for a reforming and/or expansion of the 334 fleet is as good as nil. If any currently out of use stock is going to come up and supplement the ScR EMU fleet, it would be the 350/2s.

What helps here is that, despite their advancing age and as has already been pointed out, they've seen regular overhauls over the years - and thus are in pretty good nick. Perfectly acceptable for the rest of the decade, though I would expect to finally see some more progress on getting their permanent replacements ordered within the next year or two.

The most likely outcome here though is the 318s/320s seeing out the 2020s, with the 318s handily surpassing the 303s service record (42 years); at the current rate it's very likely they'll end up racking up more years in service overall than the Met-Cam Subway stock did (44 years). They'lll hit the 40 year mark this September coming while both 320 variants reaching their 36-37th birthdays this year. Now the sole standard-bearers of the Mk3-based EMU family in regular passenger service and the 318s may very well end up racking up the most years in service out of any of them (or come pretty close to doing so).
IMO this really isn’t a bad thing, these units were built to last in the 80s, and they have had refurbishments to take them up to a modern standard as close as possible. It’s much better than SWR did by running the 455s into the ground for 6 years without any refurbishment. ScotRail has a more sensible and careful rolling stock policy than any other in the UK (except of course with the mistake that was the HST replacing the newer, more reliable 170s). We may have old trains in Scotland but there doesn’t seem to be any complaints about it.

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There is no need for a stop gap, as the saying goes ”if it ain’t broke don’t fix it”.
 

SC318250

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Am I right in saying that the 318/320 are going to require a TBox overhaul again soon?
 
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In my opinion, they're perfectly adequate trains for the routes they serve, no need for a short term replacement until the new order arrives.
They are, but on some routes (looking at you Argyle Line) a single unit is horrendous for overcrowding, All ScotRail really need a the minute is more trains for the newly electrified routes and allow some further 318/320s to go on the Argyle Line and make all diagrams on there 6 cars (as they should be really). I'm not sure if Northern are expected to take the remaining 323s in store but I thought they would of been quite a good option.
 

AndrewE

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On busy Saturdays and peak weekday morning services 4 cars is not sufficient.
but the trouble is that buying and maintaining stock just to use during peak flows is horrendously (financially) inefficient. I agree that it would be great if the Railway (or the Governments now taking responsibility for railway capacity) accepted that accommodating peak flows is desirable - and might even lead to better loadings through the day if people found that one of their journeys wasn't going to be horribly overcrowded. Unfortunately the bean-counters rule!
 

scosutsut

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scosutsut
On busy Saturdays and peak weekday morning services 4 cars is not sufficient.
I'd argue the evening peaks too.

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but the trouble is that buying and maintaining stock just to use during peak flows is horrendously (financially) inefficient. I agree that it would be great if the Railway (or the Governments now taking responsibility for railway capacity) accepted that accommodating peak flows is desirable - and might even lead to better loadings through the day if people found that one of their journeys wasn't going to be horribly overcrowded. Unfortunately the bean-counters rule!
Tell that to office employers that insist on antiquated M-F 9-5 routines! I agree though it's a reality that just needs to be accommodated.
 

Highlander1

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5 Sep 2025
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Inverness
I'd argue the evening peaks too
Less of an issue as passenger volumes are more spread out but services are still busy as a 6 car.

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but the trouble is that buying and maintaining stock just to use during peak flows is horrendously (financially) inefficient. I agree that it would be great if the Railway (or the Governments now taking responsibility for railway capacity) accepted that accommodating peak flows is desirable - and might even lead to better loadings through the day if people found that one of their journeys wasn't going to be horribly overcrowded. Unfortunately the bean-counters rule!
Yes I am aware. The thread was speaking about removing 6 car 385s and replacing them with 4 car 350s. That's reducing capacity on an already busy route. There seems to be some members on this forum that are obsessed with moving 350s to Scotland. They aren't suitable for any routes as they would be a reduction in capacity Vs a 6 car 318/320/380/385. They also aren't needed. Scotrail are short of 2 or 3 electric units for East Kilbride. They're not going to add the complexity of another train type at a time they're trying to simplify the fleet and reduce the number of different types they operate. They can simply wait until the new BEMU fleet comes into service around 2031.

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Yes, such as how the Happy Trains helped fill a hole while the 385s were delayed and late to enter service. Except this would be a slightly longer solution, and a more permanent one.
The "happy trains" were necessary because the 385 were delayed and the lease on a number of 170/158 was ending so they had no trains to operate the service. That's not the case at the moment. It's completely unnecessary, not to mention expensive to introduce other train types to fix a problem that doesn't really exist. The electric fleet, whilst stretched at times, is adequate for another 5 years ahead of the BEMU fleet arriving
 
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Would the WMR 323's that Northern havent taken not be quite a good fit? They surely tick quite alot of the boxes for ScotRail
 

scosutsut

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scosutsut
Would the WMR 323's that Northern havent taken not be quite a good fit? They surely tick quite alot of the boxes for ScotRail
I feel Highlander1 has covered the reasons for this already. They must have concluded that introducing a new type is less beneficial than holding on to existing types for longer.
 

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