lazonbytunnel
Member
This one has stumped another group - any ideas? An advertising sign for Wagstaff’s Pianos which were made in Manchester to the right.
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Mystery station - Manchester area?
- Thread starter lazonbytunnel
- Start date
This one has stumped another group - any ideas? An advertising sign for Wagstaff’s Pianos which were made in Manchester to the right.
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Gloster
Veteran Member
Lower Quadrant signals were the norm early on, but most railways gradually changed over to Upper Quadrants. Only the GWR stuck with Lower Quadrants.
The lamps may be LNWR style.
Oh to be able to read the detail on all those posters! Wagstaff's would appear to have been a piano retailer rather than a manufacturer. This implies that that the station was in shopping distance of central Manchester, though presumably folk seeking their choice of instrument would be prepared to travel further than they would for a loaf of bread. I agree with Gloster about the lower quadrant signal as being an indicator of period rather than location (though a somersault would have been a strong indicator of GNR - unlikely near Manchester). Is the absence of platform awnings of any significance? The station appears to be well equipped in terms of platform illumination (gas rather than oil, in which case an urban location?), so despite the low staff headcount, presumably handled significant numbers of passengers after dark. Strange there was such little provision to keep them dry.
It doesn't help with location, but the ganger posing in the four-foot is a nice pre-Health and Safety detail. Given photographic shutter speeds of the period, it seems prudent that he is facing the direction of oncoming traffic!
It doesn't help with location, but the ganger posing in the four-foot is a nice pre-Health and Safety detail. Given photographic shutter speeds of the period, it seems prudent that he is facing the direction of oncoming traffic!
Albert Wagstaff seem to have had three shops:
1-3 St Marys Gate (using the Deansgate tunnel as storage) - now the site of One Deansgate
280-282 Ashton Old Road
Somewhere in Rochdale
Just wondering if the advert on the station indicates it's close to one of those.
Was there ever a station on the line which runs north from Ashburys and crosses Ashton Old Road?
Regarding dates it seems the first (Ashton) shop opened in the 1890's, while he died in 1927 - not sure when the shop closed
1-3 St Marys Gate (using the Deansgate tunnel as storage) - now the site of One Deansgate
280-282 Ashton Old Road
Somewhere in Rochdale
Just wondering if the advert on the station indicates it's close to one of those.
Was there ever a station on the line which runs north from Ashburys and crosses Ashton Old Road?
Regarding dates it seems the first (Ashton) shop opened in the 1890's, while he died in 1927 - not sure when the shop closed
Pyewipecarshed
Member
The badge on the cap of the tallest staff member suggests the London and North Western Railway.
And the "Manchester" on the Wagstaff advert suggests it isn't in Manchester itself (if it was within Manchester Deansgate/Ashton Old Road would be sufficient, you would imagine).
However I've looked at photos of lots of LNWR stations in the north west and there are some that look similar in style, but not the same.
And the "Manchester" on the Wagstaff advert suggests it isn't in Manchester itself (if it was within Manchester Deansgate/Ashton Old Road would be sufficient, you would imagine).
However I've looked at photos of lots of LNWR stations in the north west and there are some that look similar in style, but not the same.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
It's curious that there is a signal for trains entering the further platform but not for trains leaving the nearer one. If there was a signal box here then there would normally be a "platform starter", which suggests to me that there is no signal box and the visible signal may be a distant for a box some way behind the camera. Before the 1920s distants were painted the same as stop signals so the only distinguishing feature would be the notch in the end of the arm, which isn't discernable one way or the other at the biggest magnification I can get here.
If my theory is correct then it would probably be a fairly minor station and the lack of canopies tends to support this. Also with no goods yard, which may narrow things down somewhat.
If my theory is correct then it would probably be a fairly minor station and the lack of canopies tends to support this. Also with no goods yard, which may narrow things down somewhat.
Merle Haggard
Established Member
The signal arms, post and cap also look LNWR.
I can't work out whether the background is level with the railway or a roofscape. If the latter it could almost be Deansgate or a 2-platform Oxford Rd - if that station was ever just 2 platforms and a pair of through lines... NMS historical maps (https://maps.nls.uk/geo/find/#zoom=5.0&lat=56.00000&lon=-4.00000&layers=102&b=1&z=0&point=0,0) beckon...
Mcr Warrior
Veteran Member
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Apparently the Albert Wagstaff Ltd. pianos and music business had a presence in Central Manchester on St. Mary's Gate until late 1940 when it was completely destroyed in the Blitz, after which the firm then relocated to Llandudno. Before that, the business had operated from various other locations, including Openshaw (Manchester) and 33 Piccadilly (Manchester), this in the late 1890s/early 1900s. Born in 1858, Albert Wagstaff himself died in December 1927, his son Vincent Wagstaff not until 1979, so the Wagstaff's Pianos trading name was around for quite some time.
eastwestdivide
Established Member
I wouldn’t be 100% on ruling out Manchester from the use of Manchester on the ad. They could have had a lot made all the same, regardless of the location where the advert was to be placed, or it could be a marketing thing - local pride kind of idea.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Navigating to the 1892-1914 25" , both Deansgate and Oxford Road were on curves. Oxford Road had one straight-ish platform but no platform on the track opposite this one.
Gloster
Veteran Member
My feeling it is Manchester area, but that could mean anything within twenty or thirty miles of the city, and probably a station primarily for suburban traffic. It is most likely on the LNWR.
Sir Felix Pole
Established Member
It is a rural location somewhere - trees in the background - certainly not central Manchester. As you say it looks to be an 'economy' station (with no canopies) on a relatively minor route.
Harlequinuk
On Moderation
Im leaning towards Crumpsall or Preswich , station does look very L&YR with the layout and signage, and putting it between 1900 to 1910
The lack of signalling is intriguing. Presumably the grand gent sitting on the chair is the Station Master. Surely there can't have been many stations which were not block posts, yet were significant enough to have a designated Station Master?
that's something else that's curious - the apparent stationmaster doesn't have a watch, the guy standing behind him does. Suggests the station master didn't despatch trains???
It's not too clear, but does the SM have a watch chain hanging down from just below his right collar? Others will know how to attach a watch chain to a double buttoned frock coat.
If those lights are gas lights, then there must have been a gasworks, with all its associated sidings (and signalling) not too far away.
If those lights are gas lights, then there must have been a gasworks, with all its associated sidings (and signalling) not too far away.
LNWR Audenshaw Station, at Manchester Road? A mile or so from the Openshaw Piano shop. The station closed in 1919, there was no signal box, nearest was Ashton Moss Junction towards Denton, no sidings . All on an embankment , the ticket office and stationmaster's house still exist!
ETA, the trees in the background are in the grounds of Ryecroft Hall. Photo is looking towards Denton , station was accessed from Manchester Road, there was a white tile brick lined subway connecting the platform to Denton from the ticket office, still visible about 30 years ago until the retail park was built.
ETA, the trees in the background are in the grounds of Ryecroft Hall. Photo is looking towards Denton , station was accessed from Manchester Road, there was a white tile brick lined subway connecting the platform to Denton from the ticket office, still visible about 30 years ago until the retail park was built.
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Gloster
Veteran Member
No. Hooley Hill/Audenshaw station had a tunnel at one end and the line curved to the left at the other end.
I think that the piano advert indicates that the station is anywhere in the area where Manchester was where you went for major purchase, such as a piano, rather than Liverpool, Stoke, etc.
No ,you are wrong, Hooley Hill, on the Guide Bridge avoiding line was renamed Audenshaw (closed 1952) after the station I refer to was closed. I can see where the confusion is, both lines came together at Denton Junction , the one I refer to was on the line between Denton and Droylsden.
Gloster
Veteran Member
That could be. Certainly the general appearance of the station and the distance fits with what can be deduced by looking at a 25” map from shortly after closure; annoyingly, the earlier map isn’t in the NLS collection. If it is, then it is presumably looking south with Manchester Road behind the camera.
What it needs is a photo to confirm: there might be something on Facebook. (I am not of Facebook on principle.)
Sir Felix Pole
Established Member
Tameside Local Image Archive have a plan of Audenshaw Station (by Ryecroft Hall) but not an image unfortunately.
Tameside
(Search for Audenshaw Station).
It also has views of the overbridge on Manchester Road in the '70s.
Tameside
(Search for Audenshaw Station).
It also has views of the overbridge on Manchester Road in the '70s.
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zwk500
Veteran Member
Is it possible the Station Master wasn't based at this station, but covered it as part of his responsibilities?
Pyewipecarshed
Member
I did think that, as it was one of the few stations I couldn't find a photo of online.
It would fit the simple track and signalling layout, and it appears that we can only see the tops of the trees on the right suggesting that the land level is falling and the line is on an embankment.
Plus neither of the visible buildings appears to house a booking office, indicating that it was elsewhere; as @billh says Audenshaw's was down at road level.
If only we could find a photo!!!
That plan just about shows platform buildings similar to the photo but I suppose many stations would be laid out like that. I have noted on here before about the LNWR building Audenshaw Station in anticipation of the Manchester Racecourse moving to here as the site in Salford was requisitioned for nos 9 and 10 dock of the Manchester Ship Canal. The move never happened and Audenshaw Station was a complete waste of money!
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Audenshaw certainly fits with what we know. The signal (and lack of signal on the other track) matches the NLS map, presumably the distant for Ashton Moss. The racecourse story could explain the relatively substantial buildings but lack of canopies, if they planned to add some but they were cancelled when the racecourse didn't go ahead.
Gloster
Veteran Member
Quick gives the closure date as 1 May 1905, with the Manchester Evening News of 17 April saying ‘after 30th of this month’. 1 May was a Monday, so presumably the last trains were on the Saturday before unless there was a Sunday service, which seems unlikely.
No Sunday service according to wiki