Caledonian Sleeper

DelW · 3 Jun 2026

Deepgreen said:
I magine a suitably-fitted 66 or a pair of almost any other locos could do it, as the CS doesn't need to get much above 75mph. Diesel is far from ideal of course, but it's an option.

Don't the mk5s need a lot of hotel power? So you'd be needing something else as well, to provide a lot of electricity.

RailUK Forums

marks87 · 3 Jun 2026

Deepgreen said:
I magine a suitably-fitted 66 or a pair of almost any other locos could do it, as the CS doesn't need to get much above 75mph. Diesel is far from ideal of course, but it's an option.

A class 92 is the only locomotive capable of providing the necessary hotel power to the full 16 coach train.

BRX · 3 Jun 2026

It's groundhog day on the CS thread again...

Statto1965 · 3 Jun 2026

See 92014 is working the Highland sleeper tonight after yesterday mornings fiasco so hopefully they have fixed whatever caused the multiple breakdowns. I’m on it from Crewe to the Highland Capital; and before anyone picks me up on it, yes I am aware of the locomotive swaps at Edinburgh.

Krokodil · 4 Jun 2026

Deepgreen said:
I magine a suitably-fitted 66 or a pair of almost any other locos could do it, as the CS doesn't need to get much above 75mph. Diesel is far from ideal of course, but it's an option.

So long as you don't mind running on emergency lights, with no heating or power for cooking. 66s are freight locos. They can only haul passenger trains (Mk1s in summer don't count) if a generator van is in the consist.

92s were designed for hauling Nightstar. That they were selected for hauling CS after replacement of Mk3s with modern stock is no mere coincidence, they are the only locomotives up to the task.

CW2 · 4 Jun 2026

Remember the Nightstar concept also included pairs of 37/6s either side of a generator van working the trains. So the idea of freight loco + Genny van isn't entirely mad. Well, OK, maybe it's still mad, but not original.

Krokodil · 4 Jun 2026

CW2 said:
Remember the Nightstar concept also included pairs of 37/6s either side of a generator van working the trains. So the idea of freight loco + Genny van isn't entirely mad. Well, OK, maybe it's still mad, but not original.

I saw the Britannic Explorer a couple of hours ago. Which does use 66s + genny van. Seems nuts to do this just because a particular 92 is playing up.

JamieL · 4 Jun 2026

In other CS news, I see the seated carriage on both the Highlander and Lowlander have been repainted in an Outlander theme.

hexagon789 · 4 Jun 2026

JamieL said:
In other CS news, I see the seated carriage on both the Highlander and Lowlander have been repainted in an Outlander theme.

I believe there are four, each in a slightly different scheme.

JamieL · 4 Jun 2026

I can't post a picture because the Attach File button isn't doing anything on my mobile.

43096 · 4 Jun 2026

JamieL said:
In other CS news, I see the seated carriage on both the Highlander and Lowlander have been repainted in an Outlander theme.

Vinyled, not painted.

Peter Mugridge · 4 Jun 2026

JamieL said:
I can't post a picture because the Attach File button isn't doing anything on my mobile.

I find if you post the post, then go back in to edit it, the images will attach during the editing function.

Deepgreen · 5 Jun 2026

Krokodil said:
So long as you don't mind running on emergency lights, with no heating or power for cooking. 66s are freight locos. They can only haul passenger trains (Mk1s in summer don't count) if a generator van is in the consist.

92s were designed for hauling Nightstar. That they were selected for hauling CS after replacement of Mk3s with modern stock is no mere coincidence, they are the only locomotives up to the task.

Sorry - I should have said to include a 73/9 for hotel power.

Tetragon213 · 5 Jun 2026

Krokodil said:
There's not really anything else capable of doing the job. 92s were designed with exactly this sort of work.

Nothing else can do the job of hauling a sleeper? Dear gods, how do the Night Riviera crew cope on a normal running day?! :lol:

I imagine Class 68 and 88s should be able to do it as well? Fairly certain the 88 was designed to be able to haul pax services.

35B · 5 Jun 2026

Tetragon213 said:
Nothing else can do the job of hauling a sleeper? Dear gods, how do the Night Riviera crew cope on a normal running day?!

I imagine Class 68 and 88s should be able to do it as well? Fairly certain the 88 was designed to be able to haul pax services.

I think the issue is about the amount of power required for the facilities on board, not being able to pull a train per se. Night Riviera use shorter trains, with lower power demands

JamesT · 5 Jun 2026

35B said:
I think the issue is about the amount of power required for the facilities on board, not being able to pull a train per se. Night Riviera use shorter trains, with lower power demands

To add some numbers to that.
Classes 68 and 88 apparently have a ETH index of 96, Night Riviera's 57s are 100, but the Class 92s are index 180 on OLE.
The Mk3 sleepers are apparently an ETH of 6/7, but the Mk5a can be between 9 and 18 depending on the type.
I don't know if you could do something clever and have two locomotives supplying ETH to a train, but as it stands the 92s are the only ones capable of doing a full length Caledonian Sleeper. If at some point the Night Riviera stock requires replacement, presumably a similar issue would crop up.

styles · 5 Jun 2026

JamieL said:
In other CS news, I see the seated carriage on both the Highlander and Lowlander have been repainted in an Outlander theme.

Aye they did some social media stuff on it. I think they had some of the Outlander cast at Waverley for a photo shoot.

Tetragon213 · 5 Jun 2026

JamesT said:
To add some numbers to that.
Classes 68 and 88 apparently have a ETH index of 96, Night Riviera's 57s are 100, but the Class 92s are index 180 on OLE.
The Mk3 sleepers are apparently an ETH of 6/7, but the Mk5a can be between 9 and 18 depending on the type.
I don't know if you could do something clever and have two locomotives supplying ETH to a train, but as it stands the 92s are the only ones capable of doing a full length Caledonian Sleeper. If at some point the Night Riviera stock requires replacement, presumably a similar issue would crop up.

Now you've piqued my interest. How can a Mk5 coach (with presumably better insulation and more efficient equipment) require 2.5x more kW to operate than a Mk3?

JamesT · 5 Jun 2026

Tetragon213 said:
Now you've piqued my interest. How can a Mk5 coach (with presumably better insulation and more efficient equipment) require 2.5x more kW to operate than a Mk3?

En-suite showers?

Cheshire Scot · 5 Jun 2026

JamesT said:
If at some point the Night Riviera stock requires replacement, presumably a similar issue would crop up.

Albeit a much shorter formation, shorter even than the Inverness portion which a 73/9 can supply.

JamieL · 5 Jun 2026

styles said:
Aye they did some social media stuff on it. I think they had some of the Outlander cast at Waverley for a photo shoot.

Back on my desktop PC now and able to attach files. Picture 1 was Monday's Lowlander (which I took enroute to the lounge after having left the Highlander at Preston and made the rest of the journey on Avanti!). Picture 2 is the Outlander badge that was given to CS guests on the train (picture isn't great - it is in its plastic wrapper).

Krokodil · 5 Jun 2026

Deepgreen said:
Sorry - I should have said to include a 73/9 for hotel power.

They can supply half of the train, certainly. 16 coaches though?

Tetragon213 said:
Nothing else can do the job of hauling a sleeper? Dear gods, how do the Night Riviera crew cope on a normal running day?!

With a train half of the length, without many of the luxuries provided on Caledonian Sleeper and once planned for Nightstar.

Bill57p9 · 5 Jun 2026

British Rail standard ETS/ETH connectors and wiring are rated at 400A (ETH index 66) or 600A (ETH index 100). A full rake of mk5s exceeds this consumption. The class 92s (and Nightstar generator vans) can exceed ETH index 100 by delivering a higher voltage - this was an extension to the ETS design originally for Nightstar.
As far as I am aware 73/9s only support standard ETS. Somewhere I have a photo of a 73/9 data plate which states the ETH index...

Eastern Rail Services still have a serviceable Nightstar generator van.

hexagon789 · 5 Jun 2026

Bill57p9 said:
Somewhere I have a photo of a 73/9 data plate which states the ETH index...

Just to add, the ETH index of a 73/9 is 70

800002 · 5 Jun 2026

Bill57p9 said:
As far as I am aware 73/9s only support standard ETS. Somewhere I have a photo of a 73/9 data plate which states the ETH index...

I believe this may answer the point.
ETH value of 70, according to this plate on 73966

JModulo · 6 Jun 2026

Yes, whilst the standard ETH voltage is 1000v, the power supplied by the 92s is 1500v to cope with demand. Its why you also can't power traditional stock now with the sleeper 92s.

P Binnersley · 8 Jun 2026

London-Glasgow/Edinburgh sleeper cancelled Sunday (7th June) due to

"A safety fault affecting one of our carriages"

Couldn't even get the coaches to Euston so just had 4 hours in a hotel before catching the 05:31 Avanti. Hopefully I will get some more sleep on the train.

Hoping Avanti accept my Club Solo ticket in First Class.

Sealink · 8 Jun 2026

Disovered I made an error in my booking for Inverness... was able to change it without fee on the website, and choose a "better" seat, effortless and no fees charged.

dmkc · 9 Jun 2026

Bill57p9 said:
Yes, however be aware that, if running late (which isn’t uncommon) then 1Y11 usually runs via Falkirk High and the north Cowlairs curve avoiding Glasgow Queen Street to make up a substantial amount of time (circa 20 minutes). Therefore without a reservation you have a non-negligible chance of being unable to catch it.

Sorry for dredging this one up again - but if one were to assume a reservation was in hand for 1Y11 off GLQ (Did check RTT and can see it stops to uplift Pax only) would there still be a risk of the late running divert by passing GLQ (I mean I get it, just trying to balance off where to overnight the night before with my kiddo thats not miles from the embarkation station

)

185143 · 10 Jun 2026

dmkc said:
Sorry for dredging this one up again - but if one were to assume a reservation was in hand for 1Y11 off GLQ (Did check RTT and can see it stops to uplift Pax only) would there still be a risk of the late running divert by passing GLQ (I mean I get it, just trying to balance off where to overnight the night before with my kiddo thats not miles from the embarkation station )

I was on one night running late and we had some passengers alighting at Glasgow. Not sure how, but the crew were aware of them being onboard, so they clearly had it officially agreed.

As we passed Edinburgh Park the TM came down to tell them we were diverting so they'd have to come to Dalmuir.

So yes, it can happen.

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