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London to Birmingham Avanti
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Rail Engineering works: BHI 14 June | National Rail
Buses replace trains between Leamington Spa / Rugby and Nuneaton / Birmingham International on Sunday 14 June. See details of routes affected by planned rail engineering works, including when they take effect, alternative timetables, advice for alternative travel, including info about...
Also listed here if you plug your journey in: https://www.avantiwestcoast.co.uk/travel-information/plan-your-journey/planned-engineering-works
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Line closed Rugby - Birmingham International for Engineering works.
Your options are essentially:
Euston to Rugby, replacement bus to International, train to New St
Euston to Lichfield, Cross City train service Lichfield to New St
Chiltern Marylebone - Birmingham Moor St
Sparks807Evo
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There are some additional and lengthened trains on the Marylebone to Birmingham route so that might be your best bet - it looks to be approximately every 30 minutes from Moor Street.
Is every 30mins more frequent then ?
This has happened before when the avanti trains didnt run due to engineering work. The queue at Marylebone extended outside the station and i couldn't get onto my booked train as it was too full. Luckily i wasnt under a time pressure and the next train departed 30mins after my booked one. The train i got on still had a lot of people standing all the way from London to Birmingham. It was packed full before its scheduled departure time. There were people who were elderly , with children and a lot of luggage so it wasnt very pleasant at all. I dont understand why they cant put on an extra train on the Mrylebone to Birmingham line if they know in advance there will be no avanti service.
This has happened before when the avanti trains didnt run due to engineering work. The queue at Marylebone extended outside the station and i couldn't get onto my booked train as it was too full. Luckily i wasnt under a time pressure and the next train departed 30mins after my booked one. The train i got on still had a lot of people standing all the way from London to Birmingham. It was packed full before its scheduled departure time. There were people who were elderly , with children and a lot of luggage so it wasnt very pleasant at all. I dont understand why they cant put on an extra train on the Mrylebone to Birmingham line if they know in advance there will be no avanti service.
Sparks807Evo
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Yes, it is more frequent - normally you'll have sporadic gaps of an hour (e.g. between 1137 and 1237, so there wouldn't normally be a 1213 as there is planned to be on Sunday). Hopefully post December the norm is 30 minutes and that'll be the case throughout the week.
Unfortunately this sort of problem has been going on a while - Chiltern has been short on units even before Covid and is doing the absolute best it can. The slow progress on the Class 168 overhaul and refurbishment plus 168329's prolonged absence means they are down on the number of Class 168s available to bolster the service, and the 165s are not as reliable as they once were. The pre-overhaul 168s are also struggling.
This means there's very little resilience on the weekends to cope with shutdowns on the WCML. Ironically, you're getting to the point with the amount of leisure travel on weekends that you wonder whether it would instead be better to do shutdowns on certain weekdays to avoid such disruption. I agree, it gives a poor impression to the leisure traveller with luggage and children, potential mobility issues as it causes far more hassle.
With the full MK5 rollout in December, this should give some more flexibility, albeit it will all depend on how they can utilise the MK5s to free up 165/168s on such occasions given the latter have far more capacity when coupled up. I would like to think one day with GBR you could clear what are the WMT 172s to Marylebone to provide further cover on a Sunday given plenty of those sit in the depot on a Sunday with the limited Snow Hill line timetable.
If you're able to, and I appreciate it's an extra hassle, I would consider driving down the M40 and parking at Amersham on the Metropolitan line to get in / out of London. * EDIT - Completely agree with @AlterEgo below, the coach is a good shout!
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LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
In the past VT would operate 221s via Nuneaton to Birmingham New St to avoid works via Coventry.
Could 805s not be used to do the same today?
They can't all be used on Chester/North Wales services on a Sunday.
Could 805s not be used to do the same today?
They can't all be used on Chester/North Wales services on a Sunday.
Sparks807Evo
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I think there is a blockade at Water Orton also, otherwise yes - would be a good idea. Whilst the line via Kenilworth is also shut, you could see arguments for clearing 805s down the Chiltern line also to allow for any future WCML South blockades.
Without going off topic, it all comes back to perhaps not putting blockades on at the same time on multiple lines which means you have limited options for moving people - but that's another debate altogether...
There should be no reservations issued by Chiltern for these Sunday blocks affecting London to Birmingham trains.
Specifically, also, there should no advanced fares, either, due to the aforementioned capacity issues.
Certain trains are full and standing without the additional Avanti / LNWR passengers.
My point being, do not be concerned with travelling on a 'booked train'with Chiltern on the Sunday between Marylebone and Birmingham as there shouldn't be any tickets being sold for specific trains.
They are more likely to be being advised as trains booked with the itinerary provided by whichever retailer you're using.
(Happy to be corrected on any of the above).
Bizarrely, though, I believe the Delay Repay rules still exist however if you're unable to board the service to which you wanted to.
Specifically, also, there should no advanced fares, either, due to the aforementioned capacity issues.
Certain trains are full and standing without the additional Avanti / LNWR passengers.
My point being, do not be concerned with travelling on a 'booked train'with Chiltern on the Sunday between Marylebone and Birmingham as there shouldn't be any tickets being sold for specific trains.
They are more likely to be being advised as trains booked with the itinerary provided by whichever retailer you're using.
(Happy to be corrected on any of the above).
Bizarrely, though, I believe the Delay Repay rules still exist however if you're unable to board the service to which you wanted to.
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
Mmm not sure I'd agree with that, but maybe I'm just haunted by the many coach journeys I did from Cardiff to Manchester in 2024 when I was too poor for the train.
The Planner
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No route knowledge, and no intention to learn it either from what I gather.
Chiltern won't get learnt either I suspect, potentially route conducted for a blockade but thats it. I don't see Water Orton and the Cov corridor being an issue unless its a weekday as it causes big problems for freight.
With the added factor of that they would have no where to go at Marylebone, and there would not be the paths available up or down the chiltern main line without major interventions.
If, by miracle, they could get up the main line they'd have to turn right and head for the Western / Acton and Willesden to make Euston, which i suspect would be an even greater challenge than getting chiltern to replan their entire service to accommodate someone else's passenger trains.
I think it's likely I won't travel at all.
I'm not convinced a long distance coach will be comfortable. I was aiming to get the very first train so that i can spend the whole day in Birmingham, but I assume its most likely to be affected by overcrowding. I thought I had booked an Advance ticket as this is normally what I do.
The last time I arrived 15 mins before departure and the train was full, so luckily I got on the one that was 30 mins later. If I had arrived less than 15 mins before departure then its likely I wouldn't have been allowed on the next service as it was full way before its scheduled departure time, and they were loading people onto the next train whilst the train I was on still had at least 10 mins before its scheduled departure time. The queue stretched outside the station onto the road so you couldn't see the departure board and just had to keep my fingers crossed I was in the right queue as you would have to go into the station to find a staff member to ask.
I didn't realise this was a regular occurrence and don't fully understand all the reasons given above as to why they can't increase the frequency, judging by the number of people I got the feeling that from a finance perspective the extra people would cover the cost
I'm not convinced a long distance coach will be comfortable. I was aiming to get the very first train so that i can spend the whole day in Birmingham, but I assume its most likely to be affected by overcrowding. I thought I had booked an Advance ticket as this is normally what I do.
The last time I arrived 15 mins before departure and the train was full, so luckily I got on the one that was 30 mins later. If I had arrived less than 15 mins before departure then its likely I wouldn't have been allowed on the next service as it was full way before its scheduled departure time, and they were loading people onto the next train whilst the train I was on still had at least 10 mins before its scheduled departure time. The queue stretched outside the station onto the road so you couldn't see the departure board and just had to keep my fingers crossed I was in the right queue as you would have to go into the station to find a staff member to ask.
I didn't realise this was a regular occurrence and don't fully understand all the reasons given above as to why they can't increase the frequency, judging by the number of people I got the feeling that from a finance perspective the extra people would cover the cost
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In reality, it's about three things.
Train paths
Driver resource
Train manager resource
All three are in very short supply.
The train paths get stuck at 2 per hour, realistically, before you need to near total rewrite south of Banbury.
Paths north of Banbury don't exist beyond the two, either, when you account for diverted services between Leamington and Birmingham.
There is no more driver or Train manager resource available to fulfill more Train paths, either.
The best all round solution is to provide two trains an hour, near as long (number of carriages) as possible and to reduce the local passenger opportunities as much as possible (not forgetting Chilterns day to day customers are crowded out by people going London / Birmingham and vice versa).
So many services become pick up / set down only to assist in getting people to / from the north and forcing them onto the other services the heartlands and Londons.
Train paths
Driver resource
Train manager resource
All three are in very short supply.
The train paths get stuck at 2 per hour, realistically, before you need to near total rewrite south of Banbury.
Paths north of Banbury don't exist beyond the two, either, when you account for diverted services between Leamington and Birmingham.
There is no more driver or Train manager resource available to fulfill more Train paths, either.
The best all round solution is to provide two trains an hour, near as long (number of carriages) as possible and to reduce the local passenger opportunities as much as possible (not forgetting Chilterns day to day customers are crowded out by people going London / Birmingham and vice versa).
So many services become pick up / set down only to assist in getting people to / from the north and forcing them onto the other services the heartlands and Londons.
The Planner
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For a STP blockade, as long as you work together with Chiltern, XC and the FOCs, arguably all bets are off as you can timetable what you want.
Can't help but smile when people say things like that.
barbette165
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The 172/1s were surely already cleared into Marylebone. Has anything been done to them to cancel that clearance? If still active, does the clearance also apply to the other sub-classes?
I havent travelled by train from London to Birmingham early on a Sunday for a long time, but I can’t imagine that the 0800 off Marylebone next Sunday is going to be over subscribed.
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
They’ll be cleared but Chiltern drivers would surely need a conversion course from 168s this late after their withdrawal. That’d be an issue for a start. But of course, 172s are already deputising for 196s on 2/3 Hereford diagrams a day now as well — madness while 196/1s are wasted on Camp Hill shuttles!
The Planner
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Why, it can be done, and has been.