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Any service crossing in to England should transfer to GBR

LNW-GW Joint

LNW-GW Joint

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As I understand the money-go-round for TfW Rail, TfW (Wales & Borders) revenue will go to the Welsh Government, but there is an annual review mechanism for the funding of TfW within the overall devolution setup.
So the annual lump sum funding transfer from Westminster to Cardiff (HMG to WG) will take into account the performance (costs and revenue) of TfW, as well as devolved funds for eg the NHS or Education.

Also remember NR Wales is not devolved so that will be part of GBR regardless of the TOC complications.
NR Wales Route (which includes long stretches in England, some if it controlled from Cardiff) is part of NR's Wales & Western Region, yet another cut through the railway organization maze.

And remember TfW's main fleet, the 197s, are based 2 miles outside Wales in Chester.
 
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David M

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What would the OP's reaction be if I suggested a title change to

Any service crossing in to Scotland should transfer to Transport Scotland​

 
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NCT

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Oh great, another throwaway comment made into a new thread through moderator intervention with an absolutist thread title. Some OT discussions should just be allowed to fizzle away naturally.
 
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Verulamius

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In a similar context should TfL services transfer to GBR if they go outside Greater London?

What about Merseyrail?
 
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Ianigsy

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Verulamius said:
In a similar context should TfL services transfer to GBR if they go outside Greater London?

What about Merseyrail?
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As far as the parts of Merseyrail running outside Merseyside are concerned, Cheshire County Council provided funding for the Chester and Ellesmere Port extensions in the 1990s and the Ormskirk electrification was done by the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway before the First World War.
 
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RT4038

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David M said:
What would the OP's reaction be if I suggested a title change to

Any service crossing in to Scotland should transfer to Transport Scotland​

Click to expand...
Exchange stations at Gretna and Berwick, with through passengers having to change trains and rebook tickets. Or not even a common station, through passengers having to make their own way across the border. Which of course happens in the border areas of many, many countries (in fact is the norm outside of the EU).

However, we can take heart that this doesn't happen, and has never happened, on the border between the UK and ROI. It only becomes a problem* if one side insist on considerably higher standards than the other, and insist on the one with the lower standards having to pay for the higher standards on the joint service (e.g. TfL with adjacent shire counties, on bus services). Or similar situations. Hopefully common sense will prevail.

* Excluding Immigration or Customs or Political issues, which make up the most reasons....
 
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Krokodil

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RT4038 said:
However, we can take heart that this doesn't happen, and has never happened, on the border between the UK and ROI.
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The Enterprise started life because the GNR(I) grew tired of having its trains delayed by customs checks. By running non-stop these could instead be done at Dublin and Belfast.
 
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mrcheek

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Wonderful idea. stop all services at the border, or the nearest point possible.

Then we could save money on the pumps in the Severn Tunnel! switch them off, and let it flood!

And the Caledonian Sleeper, what about that? maybe we should force them to wake people up in the middle of the night to change trains!
 
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gallafent

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mrcheek said:
And the Caledonian Sleeper, what about that? maybe we should force them to wake people up in the middle of the night to change trains!
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You joke, but from Malaysia to Singapore it used to be like that! You'd actually get off the train, go through customs and so on, with your bags, then get back on to the same train to do the last little bit of the line into Singapore itself. This problem has been "solved" by simply closing the part of the railway which continued into the centre of Singapore, instead just terminating at what used to be the Woodlands checkpoint!
 
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Sir Felix Pole

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Krokodil said:
The Enterprise started life because the GNR(I) grew tired of having its trains delayed by customs checks. By running non-stop these could instead be done at Dublin and Belfast.
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Yes, Goraghwood station on the NI side, a bleak spot near Newry, was notorious for stony faced customs officials and extended delays. The 'Enterprise' buffet car had to have two spirit cabinets because of the differing excise rates in the two countries - the appropriate one was opened depending on the train's location.

The Co. Donegal Rly. had to contend with customs checks immediately after leaving Strabane at Lifford. The GNR (I) line from Dundalk to Bundoran crossed the border some five times.
 
styles

styles

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I'm not sure the way for Westminster to regain the trust and support of Welsh and Scottish residents is to compulsorily take over their railway operations again.

Transport Focus' latest railway user survey in particular puts ScotRail in 5th place for overall satisfaction, and Scotland's the more pro-independent one of the two. ScotRail have just abolished peak time fares, and froze their fares before England followed suit; meanwhile the DfT is using LNER to "trial" their supposed "simpler fares" which is screwing over passengers.

I'm also not sure the people living in the Highlands will appreciate the Caledonian Sleeper being taken over either (though maybe if it's coupled with a radical change in cost or economy offering!)
 
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Krokodil

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gallafent said:
You joke, but from Malaysia to Singapore it used to be like that! You'd actually get off the train, go through customs and so on, with your bags, then get back on to the same train to do the last little bit of the line into Singapore itself. This problem has been "solved" by simply closing the part of the railway which continued into the centre of Singapore, instead just terminating at what used to be the Woodlands checkpoint!
Click to expand...
Still is when travelling from Bulgaria into Turkey. I had that pleasure earlier this year. No customs checks on the return, just alight empty-handed for passport control.
 
Tetchytyke

Tetchytyke

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thealexweb said:
If anything any service crossing in to England should transfer to GBR asap as they are directly accountable to UK-wide DfT
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And any train crossing into Scotland and Wales should transfer to the devolved authorities, right?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

mrcheek said:
Wonderful idea. stop all services at the border, or the nearest point possible.
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Nope, should be the actual border. Nothing should cross.

IIRC the Marches line crosses the border five times in ten miles just north of Abergavenny. Should be fun. We can’t possibly have those dirty Welsh trains polluting our beautiful English railway.
 
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