Not so Greater Anglia

[O L Leigh]

Exactly my point - the level of traffic between L St and Ipswich requires a more robust OH structure than it's got.

Clearly BR's crystal ball was faulty all those decades ago when the wiring was put up in the 1960s and then extended again in the early 1980s.

Sheesh!! What more do people want? :roll:

Anyhow, I wouldn't want to let National Express anywhere near another franchise after what they did to NXEA and NXEC - should stick to running buses.

Ah, this old chestnut again.

Honestly, if I had a quid for every time someone trots out this line I would be a very rich man.

NXEC failed for the same reason that GNER failed; they overbid on the basis of hollow promises from the DfT and were caught out when revenue fell. Can the Great God GNER please come in for the same stick, or are we using different measures?

As for East Anglia, how many times must I say that the majority of the failings that most people lay at NXEA's door were due to decades of neglect that no other operator could have fixed. We would be where we are now even if First had kept the franchise.

O L Leigh

 

[ainsworth74]

Sheesh!! What more do people want?

100% reliability, 100% punctuality, high frequency service from their station direct to their destination, a seat, never any engineering works causing disruption, oh and also they would like all that for fares that are cheap as chips.

At least something alone those lines anyway I think from what gets posted here.

 

[swt_passenger]

So since the DfT published this in October:

A total of 141 stations will be refreshed and the whole the train fleet will be deep cleaned (except the class 379s), including all surfaces and floor coverings, toilets and lighting. In addition the interior of the class 321 units will be refreshed and CCTV will be fitted to 68 class 321 vehicles.

...it is being suggested that Abellio have wormed there way out of the work highlighted?

 

[ginger]

100% reliability, 100% punctuality, high frequency service from their station direct to their destination, a seat, never any engineering works causing disruption, oh and also they would like all that for fares that are cheap as chips.

At least something alone those lines anyway I think from what gets posted here.

seats that are modern and not falling to bits, clean seats that are not full of fleas, train heating that actually works, toilets that are not locked out of use that actually work properly, PIS that actually tell you where you are, windows that you can look out of that are not blown, doors that don't rattle and let massive amounts of freezing air into carriages as you travel, wifi as the phone signal on the trains is crap, staff at Liv St that actually know what they are talking about........oh and a clean train??????? All for £4k a year!!!!

and that is just the TOC!!! Shall we start on Nitwit Rail???
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So since the DfT published this in October:



...it is being suggested that Abellio have wormed there way out of the work highlighted?

Abellio keep saying when asked that NO work is being carried out apart from a deep clean....even when asked in specific terms about the ex LM 321s.........

Is this an internal mis communication or a sly deception??? Who knows!!!!! But thats great customer service!!!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

seats that are modern and not falling to bits, clean seats that are not full of fleas, train heating that actually works, toilets that are not locked out of use that actually work properly, PIS that actually tell you where you are, windows that you can look out of that are not blown, doors that don't rattle and let massive amounts of freezing air into carriages as you travel, wifi as the phone signal on the trains is crap, staff at Liv St that actually know what they are talking about........oh and a clean train??????? All for £4k a year!!!!

and that is just the TOC!!! Shall we start on Nitwit Rail???
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Abellio keep saying when asked that NO work is being carried out apart from a deep clean....even when asked in specific terms about the ex LM 321s.........

Is this an internal mis communication or a sly deception??? Who knows!!!!! But thats great customer service!!!!

Mr Leigh...........this what the TOC is suppose to provide and why NX are so HATED!!!!! Before we even start on Nitwit and DAFT!

 

[O L Leigh]

Mr Ginger,

My rhetorical question was intended to draw attention to the specific point made about the robustness (or otherwise) of the OLE, and about BR's level of clairvoyancy. That it has been picked up with and made to illustrate some other point is not my intention.

Thank you.

O L Leigh (Mr)

 

[ginger]

Mr Ginger,

My rhetorical question was intended to draw attention to the specific point made about the robustness (or otherwise) of the OLE, and about BR's level of clairvoyancy. That it has been picked up with and made to illustrate some other point is not my intention.

Thank you.

O L Leigh (Mr)

Dear Mr Leigh

I know and agree with pretty much most of what you say! But you cannot deny that NX took us all for a ride! Good to see pressure building on DAFT for the 15 yr franchise.....we might actually see some investment put in place!

Yours.....

 

[Schnellzug]

So since the DfT published this in October:



...it is being suggested that Abellio have wormed there way out of the work highlighted?

"Refreshed" can mean anything at all; it usually just means perhaps new seat covers at best. Yes, the dreadful seats in 321s (give me a 142 with bus seats any day) were designed by BR, perhaps the epitome of the complete disregard for comfort that came with Sectorisation, but having been in the private sector for over a decade now, none of the operators so far have been in any noticeable hurry to improve them, have they.

 

[GB]

Are all the 321 one seats "full of fleas" or is it just 1 or 2 have been found to be?

 

[87015]

Are all the 321 one seats "full of fleas" or is it just 1 or 2 have been found to be?

Don't know, but you certainly get less reports of that than a fleet of certain "elite" Intercity EMUs which have kitchens OOU due to cockroach infestations on a regular basis...

 

[swt_passenger]

"Refreshed" can mean anything at all; it usually just means perhaps new seat covers at best.

That isn't the point here.

DfT say the 321s will be refreshed, and the 17 will get CCTV. Ginger says that they won't, based on discussions with 'staff'.

What refreshed actually means in the context of this fleet - (or subfleet if it is only the 17 ex LM) is therefore a bit of a red herring...

 

[SprinterMan]

Don't know, but you certainly get less reports of that than a fleet of certain "elite" Intercity EMUs which have kitchens OOU due to cockroach infestations on a regular basis...

Which EMUs are these? 444s? 390s?

 

[Norwich317]

Greater Anglia Franchise - Invitation to Tender
The Franchisee shall carry out a programme of refresh works for 17 class 321 units (cascaded London Midland Units) by undertaking a minor refresh of the unit interiors. Works to include new 1st class carpet, new 1st class seat covers, new standard class seat covers, replacing standard class vinyl floor, recovering/replacing dado panels, replacing labels, recoating seat back handles and grab poles. Materials will be made available to the Franchisee to carry out this refresh and further details of these are available in the data site.

Perhaps Abellio don't want the work to be done as it will mean they will have a unit away for a number of weeks. They are struggling at the moment to keep to booked formations.

BTW could the above refresh be done in a week for each unit?

 

[ginger]

That isn't the point here.

DfT say the 321s will be refreshed, and the 17 will get CCTV. Ginger says that they won't, based on discussions with 'staff'.

What refreshed actually means in the context of this fleet - (or subfleet if it is only the 17 ex LM) is therefore a bit of a red herring...

it is the subject of speculation......I have asked the question directly to Abelio Customer Service and they say "no train refurbs at all will be carried out"

tbh I am unsure why they cant give a straight answer! some people say "yes it will be done" and some say "no"......strange!

 

[tbtc]

So Abelio are meant to be refurbishing the fleas, but they are planning on keeping them instead?

 

[ginger]

So Abelio are meant to be refurbishing the fleas, but they are planning on keeping them instead?

great travelling companions!

 

[NXEA!]

Are all 317/7s off lease now or is an odd one still lingering?
An 8 car 321 has more seats that a 12 car 317/7 so it isn't all bad tbh. Abellio just need to keep fleet reliability up and everybody wins.

To answer your question, yes one is still with us here in Anglia, 317710. It worked the Romford-Upminster shuttle several days last week, and today (well, yesterday now) it worked an all day Cambridge diagram due to the unavailability of 317511, which despite being repaired recently after 6 years out of traffic, is still rather poorly and is currently at Ilford. The other 8 317/7's are dotted around Ilford depot. Now a couple of other-things: the other long-term stoppages that NXEA were too lazy to repair, 315850 and 321425, have returned. 315850 has entered traffic in One livery, and 321425 made a re-appearance in it's Silverlink-liveried frock for a couple of days before being packed off to Doncaster to be repainted in NX White. 321446 has returned from Doncaster in overall white and looks very nice, so much better than when it was in tatty ''One'' livery. 321445 should be next to return from Doncaster. 315804 is in the shops at Ilford being painted into NX Polar Bear white, and I would expect it to re-emerge with Greater Anglia brandings too.
90001 is currently out of traffic at Norwich Crown Point, very poorly as I understand it from people in the know on Anglia-Gen, but it will be back at some point. 90015 is at Crewe Works. So that leaves 13 90's to operate 11 diagrams, and with 90009 as of Friday at Colchester as the Thunderbird covering for a poorly 47828 which reduces that number to 12, don't be surprised if services have to be stepped-up or cancelled until the 47 is fixed or 90015 is returned. Personally I'm hoping that 47828 will make an appearance on a passenger service! I can but live in hope. Hope that summary is of interest to people.

 

[YorkshireBear]

So what albelio have done is fix some long term cronks to reduce the fleet size and therefore fleet cost.

Now that sounds like a good idea to me and something they should be praised for surely. But i still think its disgraceful in the current overcrowded world that we have some lovely 4 car units that are not to be used. Give em to northern!!! preferably in yorkshire to operate a york newcastle service as i would use it and i love older EMUs.

 

[Eagle]

preferably in yorkshire to operate a york newcastle service as i would use it and i love older EMUs.

York to Newcastle is already five trains an hour, totalling over 30 coaches an hour... how much more capacity can it need? :P

 

[YorkshireBear]

York to Newcastle is already five trains an hour, totalling over 30 coaches an hour... how much more capacity can it need? :P

lots more !!!!! it was in no way a serious suggestion I am aware its ridiculous as i travel leeds newcastle all the time

Although i was on a full and standing leaving people at leeds service (TPE of course)

 

[Pugwash]

I would love to think that were the case, I just cannot see them increasing the reliability of the 321 fleet without having enough slack in the system to allow some of the fleet enough overhaul maintanance.

It is a recipe for short hauls and cancellations.

 

[IanXC]

So Abelio are meant to be refurbishing the fleas, but they are planning on keeping them instead?

great travelling companions!

I'm not sure they're so good at paying their fares though.

 

[317666]

I think it was a stupid idea to put the 317/7s into store when they're currently not needed elsewhere. Transferring them to Northern once the NW Electrification is complete makes sense, as they're continuing in service, but at the moment you have 8-9 perfectly usable EMUs sitting about doing nothing whilst more people have to stand, which quite frankly seems ridiculous.

 

[Eagle]

...but at the moment you have 8-9 perfectly usable EMUs sitting about doing nothing whilst more people have to stand, which quite frankly seems ridiculous.

Like the 508/2 and /3s? (Okay, perhaps not perfectly usable.)

 

[Essexman]

I was on the 18.00 from Norwich which failed at Colchester tonight. Following train from Norwich held at Manningtree. Everyone moved to stopping train at Platform 3, but this couldn't go as the Norwich train in platform 4 couldn't be moved and blocking line. So all over to platofrm 2. Then Norwich bound trains comes in here and we're moved to platform 1. Lots of muttering but to be honest staff seem to handle it pretty well.

 

[knight2004]

i feel sorry for this franchise, they've taken on poorly maintained and badly refurbished stock especially in Gtr London- the state of the commuter trains is well awful dirty seats filthy interior and exterior, not Abeillos fault but not an easy job either.
Encouraging to see today no more NXEA livery at my near ish station and Greater Anglia logos appearing at stations and trains good riddance nx

 

[HH]

As for East Anglia, how many times must I say that the majority of the failings that most people lay at NXEA's door were due to decades of neglect that no other operator could have fixed. We would be where we are now even if First had kept the franchise.

O L Leigh

Saying it lots of times doesn't make it true. Many of the failings that have been laid at NXEA's door are fairly and squarely put there.

Probably there are some issues that go back years, but the games that NXEA played with staff numbers; their IR record; their non-existent staff training; their failure to repair, refresh and clean trains; etc. are down to no-one else.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Not allowed. If you don't meet the specifications laid down by the DfT, your bid is thrown out. Simple as. No negotiation.

Therefore there must've been no refresh specified. So it's the DfT's fault for not specifying one.

True, but you can put it in as an option, which, if you win, the DfT have the option of "buying". Can't see it happening on this, but I'll try to find out.

 

[ginger]

Saying it lots of times doesn't make it true. Many of the failings that have been laid at NXEA's door are fairly and squarely put there.

Probably there are some issues that go back years, but the games that NXEA played with staff numbers; their IR record; their non-existent staff training; their failure to repair, refresh and clean trains; etc. are down to no-one else.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


True, but you can put it in as an option, which, if you win, the DfT have the option of "buying". Can't see it happening on this, but I'll try to find out.

could not agree more.....the all the TOCs have been encouraged by the Dft to "out bid" each other on cost savings and revenue projections with the result that investment by the TOC in the trains gets slashed, maintenance get paired back to bone in the name of efficiency and passengers end up suffering some of the worse trains in the country.......

the "caretaker" franchise is just a stealth tax collection exercise with yet more time where no improvements are made. For gods sake why did NX not clean the trains? They are disgusting!

Whilst signal failures, points etc etc is clearly Nitwit Rails fault, the state of the trains is one that can be laid squarely at NXs door!

 

[O L Leigh]

Whilst signal failures, points etc etc is clearly Nitwit Rails fault, the state of the trains is one that can be laid squarely at NXs door!

Oh, how simplistic. Shame that the simple approach misses out on so much of the actual detail that you seem to love when it comes to other matters.

Ilford has always struggled with a large intensively used fleet of units on a small site, even back in the dark days of BR where an "Ilford Prep" on a slammer meant going around and checking that they'd put the brake shoes back on. Staff morale had always been low with the obvious knock-on effect on staff retention. But back in those days the fleet was a fraction of it's current size, and Ilford were helped out by units being maintained by Clacton and Hornsey depots too.

However, whoever took over the Greater Anglia franchise was going to be handicapped when it came to traincare. Before the franchise had been let, First Group closed Clacton depot. Then, as part of the franchising agreement, the DfT insisted that the franchisee moved all it's units out from Hornsey depot and transfer them to Ilford. With Ilford already creaking at the seams it's hardly surprising that they failed to cope very well under NX. Morale dipped even lower and staff retention became an even bigger problem. There simply wasn't the time nor resources to address all the problems surrounding traincare.

But of course, that's all NX's fault. Or at least that seems to be the simple, straightforward view. That NX presided over this situation makes them the obvious candidate, but that ignores a lot of the problems such as the legacy they took over from First and the operating conditions imposed on them by the DfT. Ilford isn't a massive facility like some of those south of the river, and yet it has to look after a massive fleet of somewhere in the region of 1000 vehicles.

O L Leigh

 

[Jonny]

York to Newcastle is already five trains an hour, totalling over 30 coaches an hour... how much more capacity can it need? :P

At the risk of going off-topic, they are all intercity. Exclude East Coast and you have 12, including two XC services (9 cars +/-) which are almost next to each other and that's down to 9+1/2 if you only count standard class*. OK so add on East Coast and you have about 19-20 carriages standard, but many are "through" services, in fact they all are. No locals run at all between 9am and 9pm, or at all Darlo <> York .

Also, one of the stations on that section has 1tp2h during the day and very sparse evening service; which just happens to be the one closest to where I live...

As well, many of the 317/7s could take over the Newcastle<>Chathill (<> Belford ECS) services which would relieve the 75mph stock, often pacers, currently used and give a much better frequency especially north of Morpeth.

So, @JimmyOwl, you're onto something.

* assuming 1 each of classes 220, 221, 185 (Voyager, Supervoyager, Pennine)

 

[Eagle]

... including two XC services (9 cars +/-) which are almost next to each other ...

That's because they've taken different routes through Yorkshire. They're evenly spaced at Sheffield. I know XC would probably run everything via Leeds if they could, even if it would mean a 20-minute penalty on those services currently running via Doncaster.