Who's Been Shafted by the Torie's

[AlterEgo]

There is yet to be an example where the ruling party has managed to keep everyone happy by giving them a rich and prosperous life with plenty of opportunities for everything we desire.

What about our North Korean friends? They'd have us believe that was possible!

 

[Geezertronic]

Not read all of the posts in this thread but will say that Labour shafted me big time in 1997 (I am self employed) and continued to shaft me through their terms to the extent that I have vowed never to vote Labour.

 

[mbonwick]

I was reading a rather interesting National Geographic article the other day, about the most recent period in geological history.

Long story short it was basically saying that while the temps were much higher, it was still survivable although pretty dicey. However, the researchers also reckoned that the rise in temperature at that time had required more carbon than is locked up in the world...

 

[SS4]

I was reading a rather interesting National Geographic article the other day, about the most recent period in geological history.

Long story short it was basically saying that while the temps were much higher, it was still survivable although pretty dicey. However, the researchers also reckoned that the rise in temperature at that time had required more carbon than is locked up in the world...

What does climate change have to do with this thread?

 

[43021HST]

Back on topic
I wonder who's shafted the country more,

The Tories: cuts, hatred for the working class, tripling of tuition fees.
New Labour: Starting tuition fee's, very dodgy foriegn affairs policy, too much spending.
Big Business: Using government as puppets, domination of the free market, upstart business mentality.
Mainstream press: Uses the general public as puppets, scaremongers the population, controls public opinion.

 

[deltic]

Back on topic
I wonder who's shafted the country more,

The Tories: cuts, hatred for the working class, tripling of tuition fees.
New Labour: Starting tuition fee's, very dodgy foriegn affairs policy, too much spending.
Big Business: Using government as puppets, domination of the free market, upstart business mentality.
Mainstream press: Uses the general public as puppets, scaremongers the population, controls public opinion.

Perhaps we have shafted ourselves - by believing we can spend more than we earn - by thinking we can keep voting in parties who tell us what we want to hear rather than what we need to hear, - by being more interested in which celeb is sleeping with who rather than more important things. But to put it into perspective even the poorest residents in the UK are easily in the richest 10% of the world's population

 

[SS4]

Perhaps we have shafted ourselves - by believing we can spend more than we earn - by thinking we can keep voting in parties who tell us what we want to hear rather than what we need to hear, - by being more interested in which celeb is sleeping with who rather than more important things. But to put it into perspective even the poorest residents in the UK are easily in the richest 10% of the world's population

Between first past the post and the party whip we haven't got much choice.

 

[Zoe]

Between first past the post and the party whip we haven't got much choice.

The people had a chance to change the voting system but they rejected it. Even with First Past the Post no-one is forcing people to vote Tory or Labour. If the majority of people in most costintuencies voted for a different party then there would be a government that wasn't Tory or Labour.

 

[newbie babs]

and how exactly would that be better

 

[Zoe]

and how exactly would that be better

It was in response to the above post that there is little choice. There is a choice every 5 years, people vote for the MP they want to represent them in parliament. The voting system does not make it impossible for the majority of MPs to be from a party other than Tories or Labour. At the end of the day if there are only two parties that ever form a majority government it's still the choice of the people. If the people really wanted something different then they should vote for it.

 

[newbie babs]

Yes they would you are right, but there are no other party`s to vote for

 

[Zoe]

Yes they would you are right, but there are no other party's to vote for

There are many parties to vote for. If only two represent the views of the majority then it's only fair that these are the only two parties that ever get into pwoer.

 

[Greenback]

It was in response to the above post that there is little choice. There is a choice every 5 years, people vote for the MP they want to represent them in parliament. The voting system does not make it impossible for the majority of MPs to be from a party other than Tories or Labour. At the end of the day if there are only two parties that ever form a majority government it's still the choice of the people. If the people really wanted something different then they should vote for it.

The voting system may not make it impossible, but it does make it very difficult.

 

[newbie babs]

which parties are they, for as long as I have been alive there has only ever been two parties

 

[Zoe]

which parties are they, for as long as I have been alive there has only ever been two parties

Britain is not a two party state, next time there is an election look at your ballot paper and you will most likely see more than two candidates on it. Yes only two parties have ever formed majority governments for many years but these are not the only two parties that field candidates.

 

[newbie babs]

yep I know that, but there is no other party big enough to take on the big two.

 

[Zoe]

yep I know that, but there is no other party big enough to take on the big two.

It's up to people to decide who they want to vote for. Any party can be elected if that's what the majority of people in each constituency want regardless of the size of the other two before the election. In 2010 the people decided that the Tories should have the most seats, that was their choice.

 

[NSEFAN]

It's like being stuck in a circular argument: nobody votes for the minority parties because nobody votes for them.

Given Labour and Conservative haven't been that much different in recent years, it would be interesting to see how one of the other parties does for a change.

 

[Old Timer]

Back on topic
I wonder who's shafted the country more,

The Tories: cuts, hatred for the working class, tripling of tuition fees..

Oh really DO grow up !

The Conservatives gave a lot to enable the "Working Class"as you patronisingly call them, (and by the way would you kindly state what "working class" is these days because most people class themselves as middle class) to start up their own businesses, buy cars, own a lot more white goods, own their own property, and enjoy holidays abroad which is something I rather remember we did not have under Labour Governments in the 1970s - of course not being born then you will not be able to comment.

 

[Butts]

It's like being stuck in a circular argument: nobody votes for the minority parties because nobody votes for them.

Given Labour and Conservative haven't been that much different in recent years, it would be interesting to see how one of the other parties does for a change.

Time for the SNP to cross the border

 

[MidnightFlyer]

yep I know that, but there is no other party big enough to take on the big two.

But if the voting system is changed there there would be.

 

[newbie babs]

shame the British public didn`t want to change the system then

 

[Zoe]

But if the voting system is changed there there would be.

There could be even without a voting system change. As I said if enough people wanted a change then there would be one. If most people only ever vote Tory or Labour then there will never be a change, regardless of the voting system.

 

[newbie babs]

not since the 1920`s has their been a rival to the big two, so even though your suggestion could work I don`t think the British public would want to change

 

[Zoe]

not since the 1920's has their been a rival to the big two, so even though your suggestion could work I don't think the British public would want to change

There are only no rivals if the public don't want there to be any. If people were really fed up with having only two parties ever running the country then there is nothing preventing them voting for someone different.

 

[Yew]

My vote does t count for anything, I live in a labour safe seat...


And party whips are one thing that really annoy me, it's paramount to dictatorship.

 

[Old Timer]

..So I'm afraid that it was one very very foolish mistake to destroy, out of sheer political "Free Market" dogma and bloody-mindedness, this essential industry; and exactly the same could be said for shipbuilding, since how do we import everything we need? That's right. We have to rely on international conglomerates using ships built in (mostly) Far eastern shipbuilders. Again, we have to rely on others, which is, ironically, one of the things that Conservatives claim to disapprove of and insist that everyone should stand on their own two feet. Foolish.

All completely inaccurate and reliant upon Leftist lies and distortions.

We have been through this scenario many, many times on here before, with all the facts being ;aid open but still people come back with the same old tired and worn out lines. Assuming you have missed previous debates on the subject, coal was a declining industry in 1979, and had been for several years. Both the UK and international markets were being supplied by cheap (subsidised) coal from particularly the former Soviet Union counties (ironic given the political beliefs of many Unions leaders then) to the point where the public - thats the ordinary working Trade Union man as well - were buying coal delivered to the door, as it was costing UK mines to bring the coal to the pit head.

As the public - thats the ordinary working Trade Union man as well - were unwilling to pay more for coal from the UK there was an over-provision of coal. Scargill formulated an illegal Political fight in which there was no deliberately point of agreement or compromise. His actions led to the withdrawal of safety cover at mines which caused many to flood and thus become unworkable.

It is ironic is it not how the Left want men to be put back into work in an Industry which gives them a variety of very unpleasant Industrial diseases simply for the purposes of Political exploitation. Had there been a viable mining Industry then why did the Labour Governments post 1997 continue closing mines - even new mines ?

With regards to shipbuilding subsidised German and former Soviet Union shipyards, aided shipbulders in the Far East, produced ships for foreign Countries which were considerably cheaper and of much higher quality than the UK could. Maybe you will explain how building ships which nobody wants would have been such a good thing for the UK ?

 

[Zoe]

My vote does t count for anything, I live in a labour safe seat...

If everyone takes that attitude then there will never be a change. If enough people in your constituency though decide they don't want to elect the Labour candidate and go out and vote, there will be a change.

 

[starrymarkb]

I'd appreciate a Centralist Party for England (like the SNP seems to be). Does it really have to split into Left (Socialist) or Right (Conservative) battle, can there not be compromise taking the best of both idealologies.

 

[Old Timer]

My vote does t count for anything, ...

Every vote counts but only if it has been cast.

I remember a conversation with a checkout operator just prior to the last Election who was fed up to the back teeth with Labour but thought her vote would not change things and therefore was proposing not to vote as a form of "protest" :roll:

Every vote lost to a Party and gained by another, or an independent sends a message. Sometimes that message will not be understood for a while but eventually it is.

I live in a labour safe seat. ...

Is there such a thing ultimately ? There will always be Turkeys who will vote for anything with a red rosette - look at how Ed Balls and some of the most venomous and downright dishonest Labour MPs got relected - however the mantle are being drawn for the eyes of the normal, honest, discriminating voter as they realise just how much of a mess this Country has been left in.