UK Stations no longer served by InterCity

[12CSVT]

It always surprises me when the 1710 and 1810 off Euston to Holyhead stop at Nuneaton! They seem well-used to there, too.

The real surprise in my opinion is that there's a 3 hour gap in the LM Trent Valley service during the evening peak

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Six pages and no mention of BOLTON!

 

[Buttsy]

Harbrough anyone?

 

[43106]

Six pages and no mention of BOLTON!

I would suggest that the Manchester - Scotland TPE services take the place of what were part of the InterCity network, even though they use 185's. Therefore Bolton is STILL on an InterCity line..

 

[hairyhandedfool]

TPE isn't an intercity operator though and I noted Manchester Oxford Road has already been mentioned (which the Manchester-Scotland trains stop at) with no-one mentioning that they thought the TPE train was an intercity service.

 

[cle]

Being interworked with the Cumbria services, being 3 car 185s and stopping at places like Chorley, I don't think it can be considered InterCity standard any more.

 

[Lee_Again]

Manchester Victoria, only inter city station without a direct service to London, apparently

Glasgow Queen St
Middlesborough (?)

 

[tbtc]

Being interworked with the Cumbria services, being 3 car 185s and stopping at places like Chorley, I don't think it can be considered InterCity standard any more.

Bolton's InterCity offering under BR was two coach 158s.

 

[87015]

Bolton's InterCity offering under BR was two coach 158s.

Only for the minority of services, most of the daytime service was HST/Mk2 sets that went a lot further south than Manchester Airport, although of course in BR proper days they did only go as far as Manchester.

As for the topic, Hemel, Berko, Leighton Buzzard, Wolverton and Long Buckby all had long lost calls on a Euston-Liverpool service which was a bonafida IC set not some 4 car EMU!
Anglia services stopped at Ingatestone and whatever other silly stations in a blatant revenue raid, sure there are plenty others that were a flash in the pan since privatisation.

 

[Batman]

Llandidno?

I think Virgin stopped serving there in 2008, although it had only been 1 tpd for a number of years before then.

Also, Lichfield City and Sutton Coldfield?

I think they were served by a handfull of Cross Country trains per day unitll the late 70's/early 80's before they were all diverted via Tamworth.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
So what destinations did Intercity run to from New Street in the mid-90's just before privatisation?

I take it some of the more obscure destination only had 1 or 2 tpd.

 

[flymo]

Troon. Didn't the southbound Royal Scot stop there in the 80's that started at Ayr?

Harbrough anyone?

I refer the honourable gentlemen to the answer I gave a few moments ago.

Sorry just been watching a few bits of PMQ's on YouTube....

Cleethorpes, Grimsby Town, Habrough, Barnetby, Market Rasen all had a daily HST service to London.

Mid 80's the up Royal Scot used to start from Ayr so to add to the list I will suggest, Ayr (as noted by Driver 9000 in post #3), Prestwick, Troon, Irvine, Kilwinning, Johnstone and Paisley Gilmour Street.

 

[Schnellzug]

TPE isn't an intercity operator though and I noted Manchester Oxford Road has already been mentioned (which the Manchester-Scotland trains stop at) with no-one mentioning that they thought the TPE train was an intercity service.

that brings up the question of what's Intercity, though. Manchester-Glasgow is surely intercity in anyone's book, it was operated by INTERCITY in BR days, even if it was with 158s, and before that by loco-hauled Mk2 stock.

 

[IanXC]

Ah - if stations now closed are allowed, can we include Bradford Exchange and Leeds Central?
For a short while, both stations had "Intercity" services to London Kings Cross, and I can remember seeing "Deltics" in both stations.

I'm not sure I can let you have Bradford Exchange! Surely its really Bradford Interchange now, and has 3 trains per day by Grand Central to Kings Cross.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

that brings up the question of what's Intercity, though. Manchester-Glasgow is surely intercity in anyone's book, it was operated by INTERCITY in BR days, even if it was with 158s, and before that by loco-hauled Mk2 stock.

Would you say that, when Central Trains took over the Birmingham-Cardiff services from VXC, they remained Intercity services? even when a 150 was running them?

I agree to an extent that it depends on your definition of intercity services, but to my mind, if it is run by a company that was part of Regional Railways, it's not an intercity service.

 

[Philip Elliott]

Would you say that, when Central Trains took over the Birmingham-Cardiff services from VXC, they remained Intercity services? even when a 150 was running them?

I agree to an extent that it depends on your definition of intercity services, but to my mind, if it is run by a company that was part of Regional Railways, it's not an intercity service.

How on earth are the former transpennine Liverpool - Newcastle services NOT intercity? Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds & Newcastle - it served more population than any other service. The current fTPE franchise has PPM10 punctuality measures - the DfT considers it an Intercity franchise. Nottingham - Cardiff is definitely an intercity service - it connects the capital of Wales with the UK second city and the capital of the East Midlands.

Many of these services were operated by Regional Railways as a fudge by BR so that it could meet its' obligation to run "Intercity" profitably. When sectorisation first occurred, Liverpool St. to Norwich was part of LSE/NSE. Do you consider it not to be an intercity route just because of the paint?

 

[tbtc]

I agree to an extent that it depends on your definition of intercity services, but to my mind, if it is run by a company that was part of Regional Railways, it's not an intercity service.

This is the problem with such threads.

You can have an "Intercity" style of service on board a train that stops at few big places (apart from Chester, the WAG Express serves nowhere that big north of Newport, but has a restaurant/ chef etc)...

...you can have two decent sized cities linked by only standard class (the poshest train you can get between Newcastle - Sunderland is a 156).

Is Sheffield - Manchester an Intercity route? Two big places, but the traction is 158/170/185s - where do you draw the line?

The "one size fits all" idea doesn't work for me.

 

[northwichcat]

The term 'city' is really fairly meaningless as anywhere that had a C of E cathedral automatically became a city, size didn't come in to it so that means places like Hereford and Wakefield are cities while places that are bigger than them such as Walsall, Huddersfield, Bolton and Warrington are classed as towns.

If we say an Intercity train can only call at cities then that would mean Virgin run non-intercity trains as Macclesfield, Crewe, Warrington, Wigan etc. are not cities.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Is Sheffield - Manchester an Intercity route? Two big places, but the traction is 158/170/185s - where do you draw the line?

At one point there were 170s on MML services and 170s on Hull-London services.

 

[phil8715]

Bolton's InterCity offering under BR was two coach 158s.

Only for the minority of services, most of the daytime service was HST/Mk2 sets that went a lot further south than Manchester Airport, although of course in BR proper days they did only go as far as Manchester.

As for the topic, Hemel, Berko, Leighton Buzzard, Wolverton and Long Buckby all had long lost calls on a Euston-Liverpool service which was a bonafida IC set not some 4 car EMU!
Anglia services stopped at Ingatestone and whatever other silly stations in a blatant revenue raid, sure there are plenty others that were a flash in the pan since privatisation.

Didn't the European stop at Bolton? The Glasgow/Edinburgh to Harwich Parkeston Quay service.

 

[tbtc]

The term 'city' is really fairly meaningless as anywhere that had a C of E cathedral automatically became a city, size didn't come in to it so that means places like Hereford and Wakefield are cities while places that are bigger than them such as Walsall, Huddersfield, Bolton and Warrington are classed as towns

See also Elgin City v Brechin City in Scottish football...

St Davids in Wales is a City (as is Bangor) - I've been on trains with more people than the population of St Davids

At one point there were 170s on MML services

True, although they were additional to HSTs (and not intended for long distance services - stopping at Leicester for ten minutes to allow connections to the HSTs which overtook them).

170s are borderline I guess.

 

[DJ737]

G'day

A few stations spring to mind : High Wycombe, Princes Risborough, Bicester, St. Albans City.

Cheers
DJ737
Melbourne, Australia

 

[Bevan Price]

Queen Street- unless you count the Inverness and Aberdeen services? They were never "InterCity" brand though. It had a brief period of being served by HSTs that caused joyous operational problems by overhanging into the tunnel.

In the 1980's, there was an Inverness - Bristol service that ran into and out of Glasgow Queen Street. Before the new curve at Cowlairs was opened, this was dragged out of Queen Street to near Eastfield depot by whatever loco Eastfield had available - anything from Class 20 upwards.....It then detached the dragging loco and the train ran forward to Motherwell and the south.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
St. Helens Junction and (later) St. Helens Central (ex-Shaw Street) once used to be served by Liverpool - Glasgow / Edinburgh services. At one time, the 07:45 from Lime Street was booked for 2 Class 50's plus 4 Mark 2 coaches as far as Preston, where it joined the portion from Manchester Victoria.

 

[IanXC]

Would you say that, when Central Trains took over the Birmingham-Cardiff services from VXC, they remained Intercity services? even when a 150 was running them?

I agree to an extent that it depends on your definition of intercity services, but to my mind, if it is run by a company that was part of Regional Railways, it's not an intercity service.

And then do we consider they resume their Intercity status when Central Trains was broken up?

 

[Batman]

[/QUOTE]
Many of these services were operated by Regional Railways as a fudge by BR so that it could meet its' obligation to run "Intercity" profitably. When sectorisation first occurred, Liverpool St. to Norwich was part of LSE/NSE. Do you consider it not to be an intercity route just because of the paint?[/QUOTE]

When BR was facing subsidy cuts in the early 90's recesion, I thought BR managers woud have tried to define routes like Nottigham - Cardiff as part of Regional Railways in order for them still to qualify for government subisdies.

Or was it civil servents and pen pushers at the DfT who were resposable for deciding which routes went into each sector?

 

[SprinterMan]

Harwich International and Ingatestone lost their IC services at the death of Anglia Railways.

Witham, Romford, Highbury & Islington, Camden Road, West Hampstead, Brentford, Feltham, Staines, Woking & Farnborough (Main) lost theirs at the demise of the Anglia Crosslink services.

 

[Welshman]

I'm not sure I can let you have Bradford Exchange! Surely its really Bradford Interchange now, and has 3 trains per day by Grand Central to Kings Cross.

Hmmmm - Bradford Interchange is on a different site to Bradford Exchange, but I take your point - it was built to replace it.

So can I have New Pudsey instead? IIRC the 0720 to Kings Cross and the 1605 return stopped there, whereas today's Grand Central services go via Halifax and Brighouse of course.

 

[bnm]

The term 'city' is really fairly meaningless as anywhere that had a C of E cathedral automatically became a city,

A common misconception. There are towns with Anglican Cathedrals (Blackburn, Guildford, Chelmsford, Bury St Edmunds, Rochester) just as there are cities without Anglican Cathedrals (Bath, Nottingham, Cambridge, Leeds, Southampton)

City status is no longer linked to having a Cathedral, and hasn't been for over 120 years.

 

[Bungle73]

A common misconception. There are towns with Anglican Cathedrals (Blackburn, Guildford, Chelmsford, Bury St Edmunds, Rochester) just as there are cities without Anglican Cathedrals (Bath, Nottingham, Cambridge, Leeds, Southampton)

City status is no longer linked to having a Cathedral, and hasn't been for over 120 years.

Rochester used to have City status, but lost it in some mix up or other.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Rochester used to have City status, but lost it in some mix up or other.

When it joined Medway Council I believe...

 

[Bungle73]

When it joined Medway Council I believe...

Could be. It happened before I moved into the area, I think.

 

[IanXC]

Hmmmm - Bradford Interchange is on a different site to Bradford Exchange, but I take your point - it was built to replace it.

So can I have New Pudsey instead? IIRC the 0720 to Kings Cross and the 1605 return stopped there, whereas today's Grand Central services go via Halifax and Brighouse of course.

I have no objection to this solution!