Stations with poor facilities of an evening

[The exile]

Why do you want taxpayers money spent on keeping buffets etc open when its not commerical to do so?

Yes and no. The yes in terms of not demanding inflated commercial rent in return for extended opening hours - especially when the alternative is an empty boarded up unit.

 

[Bishops]

I think it's quite reasonable to expect large stations to have somewhere to get a cup of tea and a sandwich during operational hours.

Possibly but the business would've done its sums and it obviously doesn't pay to stay open late on a Sunday. Without subsidy businesses who lose money don't normally stay in business for too long.

You should ask the station operator to get a machine in the waiting room - im sure costa would jump at the chance with one of their fancy machines in there to make a few quid

 

[Djgr]

I think it's quite reasonable to expect large stations to have somewhere to get a cup of tea and a sandwich during operational hours.

And it is a reasonable expectation that the train fare paid includes provision for this to be the case.

 

[lowe1409]

Why do you want taxpayers money spent on keeping buffets etc open when its not commerical to do so?

Same with having tax payers money pay for on board catering when they don't necessarily generate a profit either. It enhances the service as a 45 minute connection somewhere is a lot more pleasant with somewhere warm to sit and buy a coffee or something. Long connections in the middle of no where with nothing to do can put people off traveling.

 

[skyhigh]

I may be wrong but the toilets at Harrogate close when the ticket office closes (1900 Mon to Sat & 1800 Sun) but you have got the Tap pub next door.

They close at 2100 now when the barrier staff go home. Until the barrier line was given reduced staffing hours last month the toilets were open until the last train.

 

[Falcon1200]

I think it's quite reasonable to expect large stations to have somewhere to get a cup of tea and a sandwich during operational hours.

I agree, but presumably the commercial businesses which nowadays provide the catering facilities at stations do not believe keeping them open at quiet times of the day is financially viable - So should they be subsidised to allow staffing for longer hours, or operate at a loss?

 

[Dr Hoo]

Train stations aren’t the only transport stations. What about major bus stations? Sheffield Interchange is a miserable place in the evening whilst waiting for a bus to the Hope Valley when the trains are disrupted again.

 

[mike57]

I think there are several levels of facilities to consider depending on station size/usage.

At a really basic level every station should have somewhere dry and out of wind and weather to wait. Quite a few stations even fail at this level. I dont consider a semi open shelter with no proper seats meets this requirement, certainly during bad weather.

Lack of toilets are a problem, unsupervised they become a magnet for anti social behaviour, but fail to provide them and people will relieve themselves if they reach a stage of desperation, and remember as people age 'personal plumbing' becomes less effective, so you can reach a point where you have to do something about it before you soil yourself.

At large stations you would also expect a heated space in winter, and ideally limited refreshments during operational hours, but the current model of rail service delivery in the UK doesn't make this possible.

To be honest this is where the idea that each railway operational section / support operation has to make a profit falls down, as the whole concept of 'public transport' is to provide a national resource. Given levels of taxpayer subsidy required for the current service level trying to make it 'profitable' is never going to happen. So this brings one to a point where one organisation is in charge, and facitilies which may not in themselves be profitable are kept open as part of the service. Obviously some common sense is needed, you wouldn't provide extensive evening facilities at a minor station on a branch line in the middle of nowhere, but equally significant stations (such as Peterborough mentioned in earlier replies) there is probably a case for a 'minimum service' level when ever the station is open.

I suspect the reality is that nothing will change.

 

[Bishops]

Same with having tax payers money pay for on board catering when they don't necessarily generate a profit either. It enhances the service as a 45 minute connection somewhere is a lot more pleasant with somewhere warm to sit and buy a coffee or something. Long connections in the middle of no where with nothing to do can put people off traveling.

I ask this with genuine curiosity but where are these places in the middle of nowhere with long connections?

And it is a reasonable expectation that the train fare paid includes provision for this to be the case.

I dont agree with this - I pay my fare for getting a train from A-B not to subsidise a station cafe to stay open later of an evening

 

[Bletchleyite]

I ask this with genuine curiosity but where are these places in the middle of nowhere with long connections?

Oxenholme can be an example depending on where you're connecting from and to. The north WCML timetable is a bit messy to be able to do the connections totally consistently, sadly. There is a great little coffee place next to it but it doesn't keep long hours.

 

[Bishops]

Oxenholme can be an example depending on where you're connecting from and to. The north WCML timetable is a bit messy to be able to do the connections totally consistently, sadly. There is a great little coffee place next to it but it doesn't keep long hours.

So how long is the longest connection after it closes then?

 

[mike57]

I ask this with genuine curiosity but where are these places in the middle of nowhere with long connections?

Seamer is another one, up to an hour to wait if you miss a connection, however you can carry on to Scarborough, but people from out of the area are not always aware of that option.

Harbrough, changing for Barton on Humber branch, seem to remember there is a pub by the station, but I dont know when or if its open.

There are no doubt others

 

[Bletchleyite]

So how long is the longest connection after it closes then?

From a quick Realtime Trains look, you have a Windermere arriving at 1718 and a Manchester Airport connection not until 1814 on a Sunday, but you could reposition to Preston sooner than that if you wanted sustenance if on a walk up ticket. Irritatingly the next Windermere arrival is just a few minutes later and just misses it.

Sunday seems to be the greater problem there, and Willan's shuts at 4 on a Sunday and the "cafexpresshop" doesn't open at all. On a weekday the connections seem better and in the above slot there's a through Manchester. It looks a bit like the 7 day timetable is done assuming a through Manchester at the same times on a Sunday as a weekday, but presumably due to Northern's crewing issues it's in a different slot a bit later. I guess that's just one of those things - most of the WCML is a 7 day timetable once you get into the clockface period, and changing it just to placate Northern's woes is probably too complex.

 

[lowe1409]

I ask this with genuine curiosity but where are these places in the middle of nowhere with long connections?

There's plenty of major stations mentioned in previous posts which lack facilities. Many of these such as Peterborough and reading can have people waiting a long time, especially if a connection gets missed/canceled. Having facilities open in the station can be a big factor in mitigating how frustrating a delay can be for a passenger if they have somewhere to sit and get a drink or a bite to eat.

Oxenholme can be an example depending on where you're connecting from and to. The north WCML timetable is a bit messy to be able to do the connections totally consistently, sadly. There is a great little coffee place next to it but it doesn't keep long hours.

Oxenholme is probably one of the best examples being a fairly busy interchange with literally nothing surrounding the station. Doesn't help that some journey planners recommend oxenholme as a change point for services from north to south on the WCML such as Stafford to Edinburgh (such connections would be much better in Preston, Lancaster or Carlisle than oxenholme)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oxenholme is probably one of the best examples being a fairly busy interchange with literally nothing surrounding the station. Doesn't help that some journey planners recommend oxenholme as a change point for services from north to south on the WCML such as Stafford to Edinburgh (such connections would be much better in Preston, Lancaster or Carlisle than oxenholme)

Or even where both trains call Penrith. It's way out of town but has a drive through style McD right next to it which keeps long hours, and some "warehouse style" food shops including an Aldi not a long walk away.

The Willans place at Oxenholme is quite good to be fair aside from having no public toilets (which is a pain if you get there early on a Sunday before the station opens, but otherwise you just use the station toilets) but it doesn't keep long hours. Connections there to be fair are mostly good - it's Sunday where the WCML operates pretty much the standard pattern but Northern doesn't that you get particularly long connections.

 

[lowe1409]

Connections there to be fair are mostly good - it's Sunday where the WCML operates pretty much the standard pattern but Northern doesn't that you get particularly long connections.

It's not just booked connections however, all it takes is one train to be late or cancled (as is too common on north WCML) and it becomes a very painful wait. Having a coffee on a cold winters day in the lake district is one way of mitigating the effect, making a passenger less upset about a delay and overall improving their experience of the railway

 

[Aaron_TTL]

I dont agree with this - I pay my fare for getting a train from A-B not to subsidise a station cafe to stay open later of an evening

I agree with you, as has been said, if it was commercially viable for these places to be open - they would be open. Thus they either operate at a loss, which they wont do, or they are paid to be open and then our ticket prices go up. Be an adult and take appropriate food and drink with you for the trip.

 

[Llandudno]

Train stations aren’t the only transport stations. What about major bus stations? Sheffield Interchange is a miserable place in the evening whilst waiting for a bus to the Hope Valley when the trains are disrupted again.

Problem is that the huge, but impressive Sheffield Interchange is actually devoid of many buses, as most services in Sheffield don’t operate from it!

 

[yorksrob]

Or even where both trains call Penrith. It's way out of town but has a drive through style McD right next to it which keeps long hours, and some "warehouse style" food shops including an Aldi not a long walk away.

And the agricultural inn nearby.

There's a pub near Oxenholme, however the road to it is narrow, windy and pavementless, so I tend not to risk it.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Problem is that the huge, but impressive Sheffield Interchange is actually devoid of many buses, as most services in Sheffield don’t operate from it!

Fair enough but ‘my’ buses to the Hope Valley still do! In any event, the motley assemblage of stops in Arundel Gate are even worse to wait at on a dark, wet evening.

 

[canary fan]

There's a pizza vending machine outside Brighton station, pretty decent.

Pizza Rebellion

There is a Sainsburys Local located a stone's throw from the station entrance with a Tesco Express not much further. Plus plenty of other takeaway options within 5 minutes.

Just don't use the older building near the ticket office as that is quite bleak these days.

The older building does still contain a Costa and a branch of Burger King, which is open late, as well as a small store.

 

[Bishops]

From a quick Realtime Trains look, you have a Windermere arriving at 1718 and a Manchester Airport connection not until 1814 on a Sunday, but you could reposition to Preston sooner than that if you wanted sustenance if on a walk up ticket.

But most if not all journey planners will force you to change at Preston for Manchester on the following avanti and not make you wait for the Northern Service

 

[Bletchleyite]

But most if not all journey planners will force you to change at Preston for Manchester on the following avanti and not make you wait for the Northern Service

Generally Advances on TPE and Northern are a lot cheaper than Avanti, so you could save a fair bit by hanging around.

If you were waiting for the through Northern (not long behind that TPE) you might as well do so in a pub in Windermere.

 

[Pyewipecarshed]

I don't know about Travellers fare (I wasn't out that late in BR days), however I dis spend the night at Manchester Piccadilly some years ago, owing to oversleeping on the train and having a big gap to the morning train.

To its credit, it had a tea/coffee kiosk open all night.

Sadly the all-night Costa on the station was a victim of COVID, it closes at 11 nowadays.
Still, a lot better than most stations.

 

[The exile]

Seamer is another one, up to an hour to wait if you miss a connection, however you can carry on to Scarborough, but people from out of the area are not always aware of that option

Which doesn’t exist if you only find out that your onward connection has been cancelled after you’ve got off.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sadly the all-night Costa on the station was a victim of COVID, it closes at 11 nowadays.
Still, a lot better than most stations.

Plenty of late night stuff on the station approach to be fair. Fairly rough out there though!

 

[Bishops]

Generally Advances on TPE and Northern are a lot cheaper than Avanti, so you could save a fair bit by hanging around.

If you were waiting for the through Northern (not long behind that TPE) you might as well do so in a pub in Windermere.

Exactly - so really no one is going to be waiting at Oxenholme for an hour on a sunday evening unless their train has been cancelled.

 

[yorksrob]

Sadly the all-night Costa on the station was a victim of COVID, it closes at 11 nowadays.
Still, a lot better than most stations.

Yes, it's not the only thing quietly done away with.

Given that TPE operate through the night, it seems sensible for it to be open.

 

[yorksrob]

Exactly - so really no one is going to be waiting at Oxenholme for an hour on a sunday evening unless their train has been cancelled.

There are always going to be many people waiting late on Sunday evenings at stations like Peterborough though.

 

[Butts]

£25 entry fee according to the Derby Telegraph though. Mind you, it does include a 30 minute massage so you could probably expect a cup of Nescafe to be thrown in if you asked nicely.

Would that be a case of two "happy endings" ?