Birmingham New Street the worst UK station?

[The Pelican]

I’m staggerered. We are always told that the Edinburgh platform numbering makes perfect sense if viewed from the International Space Station but from concourse level it seems completely random, quite apart from no fewer than five unique lines of approach on foot to the various ‘segments’. At least New Street’s platforms are in numerical order and basically parallel (noting the slight 4c anomaly).

What people don’t seem to remember is that the huge atrium takes away a huge amount of former retail space in the old Palisades. It also takes away an area of former multi-storey car parking. There are far fewer trading units than were there before, upstairs. The units at concourse and ‘lounge’ level are virtually all traveller-related rather than comparison goods. For example, living in a deep rural area means that a pharmacy and a vitamin shop are incredibly useful for a quick visit whilst changing trains.

The ‘retail’ objection is grossly overdone IMHO.

Part of what makes it confusing is no fault of the station designers- a reasonable number of the trains can leave from either end, which I think only Newcastle shares.

 

[50018_Reso]

I’m staggerered. We are always told that the Edinburgh platform numbering makes perfect sense if viewed from the International Space Station but from concourse level it seems completely random, quite apart from no fewer than five unique lines of approach on foot to the various ‘segments’. At least New Street’s platforms are in numerical order and basically parallel (noting the slight 4c anomaly).

What people don’t seem to remember is that the huge atrium takes away a huge amount of former retail space in the old Palisades. It also takes away an area of former multi-storey car parking. There are far fewer trading units than were there before, upstairs. The units at concourse and ‘lounge’ level are virtually all traveller-related rather than comparison goods. For example, living in a deep rural area means that a pharmacy and a vitamin shop are incredibly useful for a quick visit whilst changing trains.

The ‘retail’ objection is grossly overdone IMHO.

Disagree. Most of Birmingham New Street is given over to gross retail restaurant or food outlets way priced above what most people can afford. While Paul Whinging It or other Network Rail employment or otherwise overwhelmingly paid people on the railway who can then claim it back as an expense then it has just become yet another overpriced expense account unless you are a normal passenger.

 

[AlterEgo]

Part of what makes it confusing is no fault of the station designers- a reasonable number of the trains can leave from either end, which I think only Newcastle shares.

That shouldn't really matter so much - the previous iteration of New Street was a grim place but it was much more logically laid out.

 

[The Pelican]

That shouldn't really matter so much - the previous iteration of New Street was a grim place but it was much more logically laid out.

I used to find it more confusing- I think the current atrium helps me work out a direction in comparison to the building.

 

[Bald Rick]

This thread astounds me. Quite patently, New St is not the worst station in the country. It’s not even the worst major station, or worst station in a major city, in the country. Opinions differ as ever, but I find New St much much better than Manchester Piccadilly, or Leeds, or dare I say Clapham Junction (don’t ever be caught short snd need the toilet there).

The way to use New St, as it has been for 60 years, is to stay topside until your train is a few minutes away. The concourse is now a much more pleasant place to be than it was before the rebuild; back then your options were WH Smiths, The Bridge Inn, or hanging around the taxi rank. There is so much space now, a couple of decent places to get drinks (and Wetherspoons), Cafes, shops, and a much brighter environment.

I shall never understand why some people find it difficult to navigate since the rebuild, to me it is quite simple; I use it maybe 3-4 times a year and used a map the first time (and not since). But I can understand that some people do find it diffiuclt to navigate, so I suggest using a map to help. In my opinion it is certainly less confusing than the Kings Cross / St Pancras complex, or the Paddington complex, or Moorgate, or Stratford.

As for additional platforms at New St itself. That option was lost a generation ago, when they dug a great big hole next to the Derby tunnel, and put the Bull Ring shopping centre in the hole, rather than build an extra 2 tracks, and put the Bull Ring on top.

That wouldn‘t be any more platforms though. That would be more tracks to the same platforms. But also more tracks that couldn’t be of any use, as they wouldn’t lead anywhere eastwards unless you also demolished various other buildings in the way, including Moor St and the Proof House itself.

But Network Rails function is not to "generate" revenue as it was brought back in house.

Actually, it is.

 

[Harpo]

New Street does have one solitary redeeming feature.


Photo of Ozzy complete with shades.

 

[The Planner]

Disagree. Most of Birmingham New Street is given over to gross retail restaurant or food outlets way priced above what most people can afford. While Paul Whinging It or other Network Rail employment or otherwise overwhelmingly paid people on the railway who can then claim it back as an expense then it has just become yet another overpriced expense account unless you are a normal passenger.

You have seen the NR expense policy then? Clearly I am missing out on the overwhelming pay too, stop being so ignorant and flinging out tropes.

 

[yorksrob]

Don't know who told you that but I thought there are toilets outside the barriers? But in any case the toilets are not inaccessible to anyone travelling by train.

There are, but they're a very long way at the top of the shopping centre.

In New Street's defence, one of the bars did a decent bottle of Atlantic pale, last time I was there.

On one recent occasion I was changing trains there and had half an hour. I struggled to get to the loo and Maccy D's and back to my connection in that time, so it is a bit unwieldy.

 

[Dr Hoo]

The trick is to visit the toilets (if needed) immediately on arrival before going through the barriers. Never ‘follow the crowd’.
The Grand Central toilets and the McDonalds on the old ‘ramp’ are on opposite ‘corners’ of the New Street side so don’t lend themselves to a single sweep.
Suitably relieved I will often pop out to the largish Tesco in New Street and grab something from Greggs on the way back in before heading to the barriers for my next train. (I know that there’s a smaller Tesco Express in Grand Central too.) Dead easy in 30 minutes.

 

[yorksrob]

The trick is to visit the toilets (if needed) immediately on arrival before going through the barriers. Never ‘follow the crowd’.
The Grand Central toilets and the McDonalds on the old ‘ramp’ are on opposite ‘corners’ of the New Street side so don’t lend themselves to a single sweep.
Suitably relieved I will often pop out to the largish Tesco in New Street and grab something from Greggs on the way back in before heading to the barriers for my next train. (I know that there’s a smaller Tesco Express in Grand Central too.) Dead easy in 30 minutes.

I'll look out for those loo's next time.

 

[mmh]

You have seen the NR expense policy then? Clearly I am missing out on the overwhelming pay too, stop being so ignorant and flinging out tropes.

Five years out of date, but here's a list, "the top 73 highest earners at Network Rail earn a combined total of £15 million per year": https://www.tssa.org.uk/find-your-company/network-rail/news/nr-top-bosses-and-what-they-are-paid

We're biased on here by our interest and like of the railway, but I'm afraid much of the public on seeing salaries like those will just see another out of control quango.

 

[edwin_m]

Five years out of date, but here's a list, "the top 73 highest earners at Network Rail earn a combined total of £15 million per year": https://www.tssa.org.uk/find-your-company/network-rail/news/nr-top-bosses-and-what-they-are-paid

We're biased on here by our interest and like of the railway, but I'm afraid much of the public on seeing salaries like those will just see another out of control quango.

That's an average of 200k. Check out top salaries elsewhere - quick search shows the CEO of Thames Water on £2m, a company which most would probably agree is in more trouble than Network Rail.

 

[The Planner]

Five years out of date, but here's a list, "the top 73 highest earners at Network Rail earn a combined total of £15 million per year": https://www.tssa.org.uk/find-your-company/network-rail/news/nr-top-bosses-and-what-they-are-paid

We're biased on here by our interest and like of the railway, but I'm afraid much of the public on seeing salaries like those will just see another out of control quango.

73 from a workforce of 40000? Wow.

 

[Harpo]

That's an average of 200k. Check out top salaries elsewhere - quick search shows the CEO of Thames Water on £2m, a company which most would probably agree is in more trouble than Network Rail.

12 UK water companies vs 1 Network Rail.

 

[Mikey C]

Considering the amount of money spent on it, I still find New Street a triumph of style over function.

It will be much nicer when all the diesels are finally banished though.

 

[Harpo]

Considering the amount of money spent on it, I still find New Street a triumph of style over function.

The upstairs bit presumably? Downstairs carefully avoided both style and function.

 

[Dr Strider]

Regular traveller here so opinions may be a bit biased. The rebuild works for me very well. I can make much tighter connections than I used to be able to, because of the extra escalators and the way the crowd flows have been dispersed a lot better. The regular crowd pile-ups on the main concourse bridge of the old station felt at times dangerous IMO.

The toilets are behind the barriers but they used to be in the old station too. (As they are in many other stations)
I get the zone confusion thing but the concourse is a vast improvement on what used to be there. I don't see how the confusion can be resolved without getting rid of the barriers completely.

The main negative elements for me are the ridiculous decision to get rid of all "regular" train announcements, the poor main departures board and the state of the whole of the Navigation Street bridge. Which doesn't seem to have had a lick of paint since it was built 30-odd years ago.

Dr Strider

 

[blimmo]

Is there good signage on the platforms that makes it clear to go up the red escalators if changing trains? I'd like something like airports' "transfers" signs. I think they'd help station newbies to not get confused by the zones.

 

[AlterEgo]

Is there good signage on the platforms that makes it clear to go up the red escalators if changing trains? I'd like something like airports' "transfers" signs. I think they'd help station newbies to not get confused by the zones.

No. Firstly that isn't an accessible way of transferring, but more importantly you don't get to pass any of the "retail opportunities" that way

 

[mmh]

That's an average of 200k. Check out top salaries elsewhere - quick search shows the CEO of Thames Water on £2m, a company which most would probably agree is in more trouble than Network Rail.

Thames Water is a private company, not a quango. I think most people would prefer it to be a quango, but it isn't.

 

[AlterEgo]

Thames Water is a private company, not a quango. I think most people would prefer it to be a quango, but it isn't.

They're still competing for the same people to fill C-suite jobs.

 

[Falcon1200]

Then Notwork Fail should stop wasting money on rubbish that does not need money spending on.

That rubbish being please?

Is there good signage on the platforms that makes it clear to go up the red escalators if changing trains?

Could be better, but I have heard Train Managers announcing on the approach to New Street which exit to use for an easy change; This should be standard.

 

[alxndr]

Five years out of date, but here's a list, "the top 73 highest earners at Network Rail earn a combined total of £15 million per year": https://www.tssa.org.uk/find-your-company/network-rail/news/nr-top-bosses-and-what-they-are-paid

We're biased on here by our interest and like of the railway, but I'm afraid much of the public on seeing salaries like those will just see another out of control quango.

Lunch expenses are still £8. And by definition the majority are not the top 73 earners.

 

[gg1]

Five years out of date, but here's a list, "the top 73 highest earners at Network Rail earn a combined total of £15 million per year": https://www.tssa.org.uk/find-your-company/network-rail/news/nr-top-bosses-and-what-they-are-paid

We're biased on here by our interest and like of the railway, but I'm afraid much of the public on seeing salaries like those will just see another out of control quango.

Now do the top 73 highest earners for a private company of broadly equivalent size and turnover.

 

[dvboy]

84 posts in this thread and not one person has thought of “ask a member of staff”?

 

[blimmo]

84 posts in this thread and not one person has thought of “ask a member of staff”?

Frankly if you have to ask a member of staff to navigate a station the signage/design/announcements have failed. Asking a member of staff should only be for bespoke problems that can't be solved with signs or similar since otherwise you'll have a whole train of people trying to talk to a single member of staff and nothing will get done.

 

[edwin_m]

I was surprised and pleased to have a member of staff walk up to me on platform 9A this afternoon to tell me my train was now going from 9B. Unfortunately it was almost impossible to hear her due to a couple of Voyagers "idling near full revs" nearby - which may be why they don't bother with routine announcements.

 

[blimmo]

I was surprised and pleased to have a member of staff walk up to me on platform 9A this afternoon to tell me my train was now going from 9B. Unfortunately it was almost impossible to hear her due to a couple of Voyagers "idling near full revs" nearby - which may be why they don't bother with routine announcements.

While I can't speak for those with disabilities, from a purely selfish perspective I much prefer no announcements over those I can't hear. An inaudible annoucement means I'll worry I missed something important.

 

[Starmill]

Bringing it back to the actual situation at hand, which the station's operator could actually do something about, I'd be satisfied to see the layout as now (recognising the serious drawbacks of it but being willing to compromise) if the loos are to be refurbished shortly. The most recent visit I made, which I admit was months back now, saw both sets of loos in unpleasant condition with missing taps, cracked tiles, broken flushes, ground-in dirt and so on. The smaller of the two sets of loos were so dirty I actually sent a feedback form about them.

Tl;dr refurbished loos would make a huge improvement even if nothing else were changed.

 

[317 forever]

There are, they are just up the central escalators in Grand Central. They're not operated by the station, instead by Hammerson who operate Grand Central, but really the distinction is academic, it's the same building.

The problem here, I suspect, is that you have to know about them and perhaps the signage could be improved.

A simpler solution would be to use the toilets in Wetherspoon at New Street station.