Railway - Misleading Advertisting

[First class]

In the spirit of the Two Together misleading advert, can anyone find any statements other TOCs have made which are potentially misleading?

I'll start here:

http://www.merseyrail.org/tickets/off-peak-/-anytime.html

(Also ignoring the save 80% attached to the JourneyPlanner)

I also think the statement about the Family Ticket in this context is potentially misleading:

http://www.merseyrail.org/merseysid...ions-and-eventsentertainment/chester-zoo.html

You can enjoy a great day out with all the family at Chester Zoo all year round! An all in ticket is available from any Merseyrail station that includes return rail travel to and from Bache station from anywhere on the Merseyrail network. Bus fare from Bache station to the zoo and return plus entry fee to the zoo for £18.50 per adult and £14.00 per child (3 -15yrs). Alternatively, a Family Day ticket can be used for all day for up to 2 adults and 3 children travelling together for any journeys on the entire Merseyrail network during off peak hours. It is valid on all Northern, Wirral and City Line trains within the Merseytravel boundaries and costs just £9.95!

 

[Old Timer]

Merseyrail makes every attempt to ensure the accuracy and reliability of the information stored on and accessible from this web site. Please contact the individual attraction direct regarding access, opening times and entrance fees. Merseyrail will not be held responsible for any loss or inconvenience caused as a result of inaccuracy or error within this web site. Links to third party web sites on this site are provided solely as a convenience to you. If you use these links, you will leave this site. Merseyrail has not reviewed all of these third party sites and does not control and is not responsible for any of these sites or their content. Thus, Merseyrail does not endorse or make any representations about them, or any information, software or other products or materials found there, or any results that may be obtained from using them. If you decide to access any of the third party sites linked to this site, you do this entirely at your own risk.

Merseyrail Electrics 2002 Limited.

 

[Butts]

The current East Coast adverts where they show Alcohol being served to someone with a smile in 1st Class.

Judging by various posts on other threads the recipient has not asked for two drinks at once

 

[Masbroughlad]

I think XC adverts for advanced fares are misleading - you can never get them!

 

[Butts]

I think XC adverts for advanced fares are misleading - you can never get them!

1st Class advances between Edinburgh and Birmingham are readily available probably because it takes much longer than Virgin

Just seen Choo Choo Choo Trainline Advert on TV - forgets to mention you can buy the tickets they sell via other sources free of charge

 

[Martin nx]

"First Group- Transforming Travel" into what exactly?

 

[142094]

"First Group- Transforming Travel" into what exactly?

Profits?

 

[Robinson]

1st Class advances between Edinburgh and Birmingham are readily available probably because it takes much longer than Virgin

Just seen Choo Choo Choo Trainline Advert on TV - forgets to mention you can buy the tickets they sell via other sources free of charge

Was going to mention trainline as well - they also forget to mention they are comparing two very different sorts of ticket.

 

[Clip]

Was going to mention trainline as well - they also forget to mention they are comparing two very different sorts of ticket.

Its not misleading though is it. They tell you the maximum discount you can get from using their web-based ordering system.

Also if you watch the advert http://www.thetrainline.com/advertising-campaigns/index.shtml around 0:15 it clearly states that the difference is between advance fares and purchase on the day ticket types.

Im not sure what is misleading about that?

 

[Robinson]

The fact that information about the restrictions on advance tickets and walk-on tickets is not given and the booking process on their website doesn't help either.

I spent several years at boarding school in Manchester (until just over a year ago); initially my parents would be responsible for sending tickets down until I was old enough to arrange it myself. Neither of us had a clue that most of the journeys I made in those years were on walk-on Saver tickets which were not train-specific, or that such fares were available to buy on the day (eventually I worked it out as I developed more of an interest in the railways). Conversely you have people who see the prices and just choose the cheapest without getting information that the ticket they have just bought is valid only on the specified train.
But I suppose all this is for another thread.

 

[tbtc]

Its not misleading though is it. They tell you the maximum discount you can get from using their web-based ordering system.

Also if you watch the advert http://www.thetrainline.com/advertising-campaigns/index.shtml around 0:15 it clearly states that the difference is between advance fares and purchase on the day ticket types.

Im not sure what is misleading about that?

You can buy advanced tickets anywhere, even at the station.

To pretend that this is something special about your website is disengenuous...

As another example, what about the NXEA boast about Stansted - London in only half an hour (?) - when "London" was "Tottenham" and not "Liverpool Street"

 

[Robinson]

You can buy advanced tickets anywhere, even at the station.

To pretend that this is something special about your website is disengenuous...

As another example, what about the NXEA boast about Stansted - London in only half an hour (?) - when "London" was "Tottenham" and not "Liverpool Street"

Didn't Heathrow Express do something similar, with "central London" actually being Paddington?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Its not misleading though is it. They tell you the maximum discount you can get from using their web-based ordering system.

Also if you watch the advert http://www.thetrainline.com/advertising-campaigns/index.shtml around 0:15 it clearly states that the difference is between advance fares and purchase on the day ticket types.

Im not sure what is misleading about that?

All companies use small print in advertising in the hope you won't actually read it. Those who are not aware of the small print, for whatever reason, are misled and get the impression that the company is doing something better than it actually is. 6 seconds of small print in a 30 second advert isn't much.

ISTR that Connex was asked to remove an advert about buying annual season tickets at their stations because it said that if you bought them through Connex, you'd only pay for 40 weeks rather than a year. It was entirely factual, but the implication was that it didn't apply elsewhere when infact it did and still does. It is really no different to what thetrainline are doing.

 

[brompton rail]

"First Group- Transforming Travel" into what exactly?

If you use their buses the answer is "a numb bum!"

 

[junglejames]

All companies use small print in advertising in the hope you won't actually read it. Those who are not aware of the small print, for whatever reason, are misled and get the impression that the company is doing something better than it actually is. 6 seconds of small print in a 30 second advert isn't much.

ISTR that Connex was asked to remove an advert about buying annual season tickets at their stations because it said that if you bought them through Connex, you'd only pay for 40 weeks rather than a year. It was entirely factual, but the implication was that it didn't apply elsewhere when infact it did and still does. It is really no different to what thetrainline are doing.

Were Connex told to remove an advert because of that? Well in that case, time to write a formal complaint about Thetrainline.com

If you wanted to be really picky, you could probably say that thetrainline never tell a lie on their adverts. However the insinuations are as good as lies, and claiming you save loads of money buying in advance, but not telling you this is a totally different ticket. They dont actually tell lies, but they make some bad insinuations. Just like Connex did with this advert (one i cant actually remember myself).

 

[Clip]

You can buy advanced tickets anywhere, even at the station.

To pretend that this is something special about your website is disengenuous...

As another example, what about the NXEA boast about Stansted - London in only half an hour (?) - when "London" was "Tottenham" and not "Liverpool Street"

So how is it misleading then? Can you or can you not buy Tickets at a cheaper price on the trainline if booked in advance then you can if you walked up to the booking office on the day?

If the answer is yes - then it is not misleading.

They do not have to tell you that you can buy them also somewhere else - they are advertising their product/website. No-one elses therefore they are not misleading you.


I dont seem to remember other travel agents having to plaster their adverts with all other sorts of warnings that you may be able to buy the same holiday somewhere else maybe at the same price or maybe even cheaper, do you? If not then are they not misleading the public also?


The small print is there only to tell you that the saving is against a full priced walk on ticket. They fully comply with ASA standards.


The only thing sad about it is that chiltern let them use Marylebone for the advert.

 

[SprinterMan]

Didn't GEx have to withdraw an advert claiming they were the fastest service from Gatwick to London when FCC to London Bridge is in fact quicker, making a joke out of GEx?

 

[junglejames]

Also if you watch the advert http://www.thetrainline.com/advertising-campaigns/index.shtml around 0:15 it clearly states that the difference is between advance fares and purchase on the day ticket types.

What they say is very very confusing to some people. Advance fares? What is that? Is that a fare you pay if you purchase a ticket in advance? Note that could also count for off peak tickets brought in advance.
They should say 'Advance tickets'.
Purchase on the day ticket types?? There are no such tickets. They can be brought anytime, and they refuse to actually name the ticket.

Their statement makes out as if anything brought in advance is cheaper, and doesnt actually differentiate between the tickets.

Edit that. Close the youtube subtitles, and the advert only says 'Advance fares and selected routes only. Subject to availability'.

That is even worse. It makes out as if you can only ever buy advance fares, and that you can buy them on the day but at a more expensive price. There is no differentiation between fares at all, let alone between tickets.

 

[Clip]

What they say is very very confusing to some people. Advance fares? What is that? Is that a fare you pay if you purchase a ticket in advance? Note that could also count for off peak tickets brought in advance.
They should say 'Advance tickets'.
Purchase on the day ticket types?? There are no such tickets. They can be brought anytime, and they refuse to actually name the ticket.

Their statement makes out as if anything brought in advance is cheaper, and doesnt actually differentiate between the tickets.

I believe you are just being pedantic for the sake of an arguement.

Can you buy an advance ticket from the trainline that is cheaper then a walk up far at the station?

yes or no

And its bought not brought.

 

[LE Greys]

Were Connex told to remove an advert because of that? Well in that case, time to write a formal complaint about Thetrainline.com

If you wanted to be really picky, you could probably say that thetrainline never tell a lie on their adverts. However the insinuations are as good as lies, and claiming you save loads of money buying in advance, but not telling you this is a totally different ticket. They dont actually tell lies, but they make some bad insinuations. Just like Connex did with this advert (one i cant actually remember myself).

I think that's already been tried, which is why the television 'sheep' advert disappeared from ITV. Still, I would like to see what would happen if someone else tried.

Still, there are plenty of adverts saying that something is 'Less than £100!' when it is really £99:99p. The minimum for 'less than' should really be 10% less than that number, so the maximum for 'Less than £100' would be £90.

 

[junglejames]

So how is it misleading then? Can you or can you not buy Tickets at a cheaper price on the trainline if booked in advance then you can if you walked up to the booking office on the day?

If the answer is yes - then it is not misleading.

Its not a lie, but it is misleading. It is the insinuations. Anyway, even if we ignore the fact that they charge fees, they do not distinguish between the different tickets, and they do not tell you they are comparing 2 totally different tickets.
It is possible to tell the truth, and they do tell the truth. But also act in a misleading way. Im afraid you are mixing up lies and being misleading.
Then there is the fact they do make out as if they are the cheapest, when actually they arent.
At the end of the ad. 'To save on train tickets, choose thetrainline'.

That is as close to an actual lie you can get, without blatantly lying.

 

[Clip]

Its not a lie, but it is misleading. It is the insinuations. Anyway, even if we ignore the fact that they charge fees, they do not distinguish between the different tickets, and they do not tell you they are comparing 2 totally different tickets.
It is possible to tell the truth, and they do tell the truth. But also act in a misleading way. Im afraid you are mixing up lies and being misleading.
Then there is the fact they do make out as if they are the cheapest, when actually they arent.
At the end of the ad. 'To save on train tickets, choose thetrainline'.

That is as close to an actual lie you can get, without blatantly lying.

This last sentence of yours is alarming. They are not lying. And there must be something very wrong with you if you think they are. They are simply saying 'choose us when you want to purchase rail tickets' the same as any other retailer says in different ways 'choose us to buy your goods from'.



You make no sense at all. On the one hand you say they are misleading you and then in the very next sentence you are saying they are telling you the truth. And the truth is all they say - that you could save money by buying a ticekt from the trainline - and do you know why - because you could!

Unless of course your telling me that the trainline do not save you money on a walk up fare.

They also do not have to advertise on screen any charges they may apply when you purchase from them


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPaeZkJON0k

Here's an east coast trains advert telling you you can buy singles starting at a certain price at their website. Is this misleading because they dont tell you that there are limited amount of tickets at this price but that you can also buy them from a station or indeed any other website that is allowed to sell rail tickets?

If you dont think that this advert is misleading then please tell me the difference - one gives you a starting price of tickets the other gives you the saving you can make from a walk up fare. Same thing - different way of advertising.

And ill tell you why - because most people want to see how much they can save rather then a base price.

Go watch the advert again, more closely - and look out for these helpful hints.

'Save on average 43%' 'Save up to 6pm the day before'

This is attractive advertising - the way all advertising is - Its telling you that its possible to save money with them - which you can.No lies. No misrepresentation and no misleading.

 

[LE Greys]

Its not a lie, but it is misleading. It is the insinuations. Anyway, even if we ignore the fact that they charge fees, they do not distinguish between the different tickets, and they do not tell you they are comparing 2 totally different tickets.
It is possible to tell the truth, and they do tell the truth. But also act in a misleading way. Im afraid you are mixing up lies and being misleading.
Then there is the fact they do make out as if they are the cheapest, when actually they arent.
At the end of the ad. 'To save on train tickets, choose thetrainline'.

That is as close to an actual lie you can get, without blatantly lying.

It's the same as saying that Savalot's apples are 10p/lb cheaper than Safefare's. Thing is, they were looking at Safefare's organic apples and Savalot's 'saver' apples (they don't sell organic). In reality there is no price difference at all when you compare cheap with cheap. Safefare would be rather annoyed about this and would have every right to go to the Advertising Standards Agency.

Thing is, ATOC have no real grounds for complaint in that the tickets get bought anyway and they can reduce staffing levels at booking offices. They are outsourcing the sales function to The Trainline. The Unions have every right to be annoyed, since this could put their members' jobs at risk.

 

[junglejames]

This last sentence of yours is alarming. They are not lying. And there must be something very wrong with you if you think they are. They are simply saying 'choose us when you want to purchase rail tickets' the same as any other retailer says in different ways 'choose us to buy your goods from'.



You make no sense at all. On the one hand you say they are misleading you and then in the very next sentence you are saying they are telling you the truth. And the truth is all they say - that you could save money by buying a ticekt from the trainline - and do you know why - because you could!

Unless of course your telling me that the trainline do not save you money on a walk up fare.

They also do not have to advertise on screen any charges they may apply when you purchase from them


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPaeZkJON0k

Here's an east coast trains advert telling you you can buy singles starting at a certain price at their website. Is this misleading because they dont tell you that there are limited amount of tickets at this price but that you can also buy them from a station or indeed any other website that is allowed to sell rail tickets?

If you dont think that this advert is misleading then please tell me the difference - one gives you a starting price of tickets the other gives you the saving you can make from a walk up fare. Same thing - different way of advertising.

And ill tell you why - because most people want to see how much they can save rather then a base price.

Go watch the advert again, more closely - and look out for these helpful hints.

'Save on average 43%' 'Save up to 6pm the day before'

This is attractive advertising - the way all advertising is - Its telling you that its possible to save money with them - which you can.No lies. No misrepresentation and no misleading.

I could say you contradict yourself. Firstly you say that i say they are lying. Then you say that i say they are telling the truth. Contradictory?

Anyway, I never once said they are lying. The part of mine that you highlighted does not say they are lying. I say they get as close to it as possible, without actually doing it.
However, whilst they may not lie, it is possible to be misleading, and they are.

I have watched the advert. I saw the points you pointed out weeks and weeks ago. Problem is, they do not tell you they are comparing 2 very different products, brought at very different times. All that it needs is more obvious small print. The small print tells you nothing. The rest of the advert does try and make out they are the cheapest, but to be picky, they can probably get away with this.
So no, they do not lie. Ive said it before, and I will say it again to be fair. They do not lie. But it is misleading. Just like the connex advert mentioned. It is misleading.

EC are just saying what their cheapest fare is. There is no comparing. No probs. Plus its not on an advert on TV. If it was an advert off of their website, then the small print would have to make it obvious when these fares can be brought. Stena Line once fell foul with an advert when all they did was quote their cheapest fares.

The train line are saying you can save money with them on train tickets, but then dont tell you they are comparing 2 different train tickets. That is all I want. More obvious small print.
If Stena Line and Connex can get pulled up over supposed misleading adverts, then Tetrainline most definitely should be.

To you and I, no it isnt misleading because we are in the know. To others, yes it is misleading.

 

[Clip]

I could say you contradict yourself. Firstly you say that i say they are lying. Then you say that i say they are telling the truth. Contradictory?

Anyway, I never once said they are lying. The part of mine that you highlighted does not say they are lying. I say they get as close to it as possible, without actually doing it.
However, whilst they may not lie, it is possible to be misleading, and they are.

Ok i concede on that part about you mentioning them lying. How are they misleading when they are stating that if you shop with them you can save money on a walk up fare if you buy in advance?

Answer this please. Yes or no.

I have watched the advert. I saw the points you pointed out weeks and weeks ago. Problem is, they do not tell you they are comparing 2 very different products, brought at very different times. All that it needs is more obvious small print. The small print tells you nothing. The rest of the advert does try and make out they are the cheapest, but to be picky, they can probably get away with this.
So no, they do not lie. Ive said it before, and I will say it again to be fair. They do not lie. But it is misleading. Just like the connex advert mentioned. It is misleading.

Quite clearly they do - Advance compared to a walk on purchased on the day ticket they can save you money.

* See attachment


Answer me this. Can they save you money on the Advance ticket for your journey compared to a walk up fare bought on the day . Yes or no.

EC are just saying what their cheapest fare is. There is no comparing. No probs. Plus its not on an advert on TV. If it was an advert off of their website, then the small print would have to make it obvious when these fares can be brought. Stena Line once fell foul with an advert when all they did was quote their cheapest fares.

They have had plenty of these 'little people' adverts on TV all the time even when it was NX all saying the same - tickets from them can be bought from £xx.xx.

No mention of other sellers, so according to your logic with TL then they are misleading you to think that you can only buy this ticket from EC as they dont mention any other seller be that web based TOC(who can also give discounts ) and at stations. That is what your claiming in the case of TL.

Answer me whether you think that EC are misleading people by not telling them that the same fares can be found at other places and not just through them . Yes or No.

The train line are saying you can save money with them on train tickets, but then dont tell you they are comparing 2 different train tickets. That is all I want. More obvious small print.

They dont really have to. They are claiming they can save you up to 43% on the cost of a train ticket. This is a fact. They can. The small print is actually quite large on the TV ad properly but the web based add there its cut off a bit so they added it on.


This is the comparions that the trainline state


'Saving based on Advance fare Vs walk up on the day fare'


So with that in mind just answer me simply - Can the trainline save you money on buying a train ticket based on their own written out criteria.

Yes or no?

Its simple. Answer me that with no ifs or buts or moaning about charges. Can they?

If Stena Line and Connex can get pulled up over supposed misleading adverts, then Tetrainline most definitely should be.

They both got done for claiming the saving could only be made through them. The trainline are not making any of these claims at all - they are just saying that they are able to save you on the price of a ticket if you go through them.


P.S as an aside - why dont you write to the ASA and state that they are misleading you and please include the reasons why they are missleading you - because you appear to think that they cant save people money on purchasing a train ticket.
Then post back with your reply from them

 

[junglejames]

Clip, you keep asking me the same question. I have answered it everytime I say they are not lying. ie yes they are telling the truth. I am purely on about how misleading it is. That is all.
Stena Line were done for more than claiming prices could only be bought through them. They had to point out when these fares could be found.
Connex I do not know enough about.

As for your attachment. That is not on the advert. Plus as I said before, and i wasnt being pedantic. That small print, which actually I cannot see on the advert in its entirety, is not very obvious. It can mean a number of things. It should state the tickets.
Stena Line were done for being misleading. So can thetrainline.

I have never claimed they are lying. But we shall have to agree to disagree over whether they are misleading.
I have already submitted my complaint to ASA.
Somebody said thats why the sheep advert was pulled? Having watched the sheep advert again, it is actually a better advert. It explains why and how you are saving. The new one is misleading in that respect.

Anyway clip, we are not going to agree. So I say we shake on it here and now, and agree to disagree.

 

[Butts]

If you use their buses the answer is "a numb bum!"

The 38 from Falkirk to Edinburgh is not to bad - they put the newer vehicles on that service. The charabancs are on the non-priority routes.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Its not misleading though is it. They tell you the maximum discount you can get from using their web-based ordering system.

Also if you watch the advert http://www.thetrainline.com/advertising-campaigns/index.shtml around 0:15 it clearly states that the difference is between advance fares and purchase on the day ticket types.

Im not sure what is misleading about that?

I was talking about the fact they fail to mention the booking fee which can be avoided by using most other sources to purchase tickets online.

As for adverts who really believes them - weve all seen the mud caked sports top transformed to brilliant white by a 15 degree wash in Persil et al bull-*****

We need Alexsandr and Sergei on the case .......

 

[Clip]

Clip, you keep asking me the same question. I have answered it everytime I say they are not lying. ie yes they are telling the truth. I am purely on about how misleading it is. That is all.
Stena Line were done for more than claiming prices could only be bought through them. They had to point out when these fares could be found.
Connex I do not know enough about.

As for your attachment. That is not on the advert. Plus as I said before, and i wasnt being pedantic. That small print, which actually I cannot see on the advert in its entirety, is not very obvious. It can mean a number of things. It should state the tickets.
Stena Line were done for being misleading. So can thetrainline.

I have never claimed they are lying. But we shall have to agree to disagree over whether they are misleading.
I have already submitted my complaint to ASA.
Somebody said thats why the sheep advert was pulled? Having watched the sheep advert again, it is actually a better advert. It explains why and how you are saving. The new one is misleading in that respect.

Anyway clip, we are not going to agree. So I say we shake on it here and now, and agree to disagree.

Go watch the advert again @ 0:15 seconds. Its there alright. They cannot have everything plastered all over the screen because it wont ever shown what the advert is for - and will cost too much as over the 20-30 second clip that most ads are.

They can save you money - they tell you against which ticket. To deny it is just staggering.

Ive just watched the sheep advert again and cant see nothing wrong with it at all either.So someone will have to show proof as to why it was pulled or else its all rubbish just like a lot of this thread.

I was talking about the fact they fail to mention the booking fee which can be avoided by using most other sources to purchase tickets online.

As for adverts who really believes them - weve all seen the mud caked sports top transformed to brilliant white by a 15 degree wash in Persil et al bull-*****

We need Alexsandr and Sergei on the case .......

They dont need to make any claim about a booking fee - the same as advertised holidays do not say that they include flight taxes and such like when advertised on the telly too. But yet they still do so.

Just like EC dont mention the availability of any other supplier when when they categorically state 'Fares from £xx.xx at www.Eastcoast.co.uk'

Given all your reasoning they are misleading you to think that it is only there you can buy their fares.

And we need to kill the meerkats and their creators

 

[Butts]

Go watch the advert again @ 0:15 seconds. Its there alright. They cannot have everything plastered all over the screen because it wont ever shown what the advert is for - and will cost too much as over the 20-30 second clip that most ads are.

They can save you money - they tell you against which ticket. To deny it is just staggering.

Ive just watched the sheep advert again and cant see nothing wrong with it at all either.So someone will have to show proof as to why it was pulled or else its all rubbish just like a lot of this thread.




They dont need to make any claim about a booking fee - the same as advertised holidays do not say that they include flight taxes and such like when advertised on the telly too. But yet they still do so.

Just like EC dont mention the availability of any other supplier when when they categorically state 'Fares from £xx.xx at www.Eastcoast.co.uk'

Given all your reasoning they are misleading you to think that it is only there you can buy their fares.

And we need to kill the meerkats and their creators

I suppose you have a point but I can't remember if they quote specific fares or just savings in general on a % basis. If it is a particular fare the booking fee should be asterixed at the bottom.

The Meerkats are fab - by far the best adverts on at the moment - especially the one where Sergei takes the pi** out of Alexsandr by impersonating him until he receives a withering look -priceless

 

[Robinson]

Again - if you're not already "in the know" regarding tickets you need to be made aware of the fact that Advance fares are much more restrictive than walk-ons. Because the advert does not tell you this, and because the booking process does not distinguish between the two and even if you choose a walk-on fare you have to go through the same process of choosing a train and seat, it is easy to assume Advance fares are the same as walk-on fares bought on the day, just cheaper. Knowing this is not enough. This information needs to be obvious to anyone, otherwise people will buy the wrong tickets and, as I said, either they assume walk-on fares are still train-specific, or get caught out on Advance tickets because they didn't know the restrictions.
The restrictions on Advance tickets is the main reason why I almost never buy Advance!