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EMR Regional and Connect refurbishments
- Thread starter londonmidland
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RailUK Forums
WestCountry
Member
I don't think that's the right thread - no mention of 221s there that I can see.
It is discussed from here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...class-810-for-emr.281944/page-22#post-7883950
Thanks. An issue I keep having with bookmarks on here. Will amend
360109 failed at St Pancras before (not) working 1Y01 0545 St Pancras International to Corby
tram21
Established Member
1Y07 failed at West Hampstead Thameslink with 106 and 116 this morning. Customers transferred onto following 222 operated Connect service
Oh dear - down to five working 360s today.
QSK19
Member
Absolutely disgraceful. Normally, I wouldn’t harp on about the whole “diesel under the wires” thing; but there’s no excuse to send out 222s to cover 360s unless there are electricity supply issues.
I can only presume that it’s down to the somewhat nomadic maintenance regime for the fleet. Other Desiro UK units of a similar age are putting in day to day reliable service. Basing them at Bedford and converting that to a Siemens Depot would probably go some way to alleviate that than dragging them over to Northampton each time.
QSK19
Member
Which is why any EMU running the Connect service would be flawed: EMR could order brand spanking new 382s (piggy-backing on the Northern order) and maintenance location issues would come up.
43096
On Moderation
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- 18,722
There is a trend though…
Regional fleet - low availability leading to cancellations
360 fleet - low availability leading to cancellations
222 fleet - low availability leading to cancellations
810 fleet - low availability leading to cancellations
Not all of that is on Hitachi.
InTheEastMids
Established Member
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- 1,382
As we all know, IC is also a shambles due to lack of trains. If ever there was a time when Connect should not be robbing a train set from the IC operation to stave off collapse, it is now.
And the question is of course "how did we end up with the nomadic maintenance regime?". Perhaps another triumph for EMR's bid team who - perhaps correctly - concluded that if they included the costs of a long-term contract with Siemens to guarantee (or heavily incentivise) availability and good performance for customers, then they wouldn't win.
The next crunch point is that the whole Connect plan was based on cutting the number of seats per unit to provide better 2+2 accommodation and luggage space for Airport customers. But that makes 12-car operations increasingly essential to avoid overcrowding. Can't see any significant 12-car operations being likely unless there is a real step-change in fleet performance. I wonder if EMR have a credible plan of how this comes about?
At this point I'd suggest it would be better to run the Connects as a shuttle from Corby to Bedford only, and have Thameslink pick up the slack. Ideally via taking over the diagrams but anything is better than what we've got at present.
That way the majority of the fleet can have whatever time it needs to get it's problems sorted (hint, subtract 10 from the class number...)
Yes Thameslink would suffer a bit, but in percentage terms much less than EMR at present.
That way the majority of the fleet can have whatever time it needs to get it's problems sorted (hint, subtract 10 from the class number...)
Yes Thameslink would suffer a bit, but in percentage terms much less than EMR at present.
Merle Haggard
Established Member
Would make it even more tedious to travel from Luton to anywhere on the EMR Intercity network; for Derby/Sheffield/the North was 2 changes that's making it 3.
It's also possible that passengers from North of Bedford might want to travel to or from the Airport.
Would also be the final nail in the coffin of any Wellingborough - London commuting (or any) traffic.
tocguard
Member
Quite! Having to change at Leicester and then again at Kettering as it is now and then getting the DART sometimes makes it pretty tedious and can me much easier to just go to Pancras direct and change once at Pancras for Gatwick. From past experience even if it took longer, it didnt seem it.
STINT47
Member
Right now I would imagine that anyone who doesn't have to travel to London with EMR is already not travelling. An extra change probably won't make much difference.
London-Sheffield is a good example, easier to change at Doncaster via the ECML than take EMR nowadays. At least a seat is almost guaranteed!
QSK19
Member
Which is exactly why I’m travelling from KX to Nottingham via Grantham in October - the change is worth it for better accommodation and reliability.
It’s unacceptable that this should even have to be thought of, but it’s a shambles.
To bring my point OT, there are such fundamental issues with EMR that refurbishments are merely polishing a turd. I’d rather have 3+2 grubby 360s that actually work versus shiny ones which are part of a flawed operation.
STINT47
Member
As someone who lives on Nottingham via Grantham has also become my default route. Even more so if traveling in first as the offering is light years ahead.
westcoaster
Established Member
They are based at Bedford and the Depot is run by Siemens.
InTheEastMids
Established Member
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Do you have any thoughts on the disparity between 360 and 700 availability? It might be interesting to compare the penalties for non-availability across the two contracts.
EMR appear to have thrown in the towel with regards Connect. It is now a Kettering-Corby shuttle, with ticket validity on Thameslink and IC picking up some of the slack with additional Bedford/Wellingborough calls. This obviously isn't ideal given there are many cancellations this evening on EMR IC services, and with the exception of the 1602 Sheffield, they are all 5-car.
Merle Haggard
Established Member
On the contrary, it is common to turn back down Corby trains at Kettering if they're running late. Today, between the 0951 departure from Kettering to Corby and the 1919 one there's been 14 cancellations so far - not all turned back at Kettering but also includes train failures. I don't know what happens to intending passengers - one of the gaps was of 7 consecutive services.
The Corby Electrics situation has been dire for a while, it's not attracted attention for some reason. Surprising considering the effort pout into starting a new service and then electrifying the line.
Service has been suspended out of London due to the wires coming down.
Merle Haggard
Established Member
Departures from St Pancras for Corby between 1415 to 1747 (inclusive) were all cancelled with the exception of the 1545. All these cancellations were given on RTT as 'problem with the train'. The 1545 was turned back at Kettering - late running..
The last train to run before the series of cancellations - the 1345 - expired at Kettering - 'problem with the train'.
So nothing through to Corby from 1315 .
Sorry I know this is off topic for this thread but thank you, and do you know where they have come down? (Just arrived back in London trying to plan my journey home!!)
Looks to be around Elstree and Borehamwood. All lines blocked for the rest of the day. Pax are using Avanti and LNER to get back up north
QSK19
Member
Maybe the MML’s “Cinderella” status IMO. Not worth caring about - as evidenced by the refurbishment finally being signed off ~5 years after EMR’s conception.