Stopgap options to cover for delays to introduction of Class 175 for GWR?

[fgwrich]

mods note - split from this thread

Class 175s to GWR

So saw on rail express that 175s are to head to GWR suggesting 2025 entry to service? Quoted important sections GREAT Western Railway is set to take a fleet of 11 two-car and 16 three-car Class 175 diesel multiple units for use in the West of England. The fleet (Nos. 175001-011, 175101-116)...

www.railforums.co.uk

Perhaps, it’s time for the DfT to bite their own bullet and allow any of the stored pending scrap Welsh 150s to have another summer if there are any left in store?

Only the DfT is the reason why they have not found future use elsewhere. The DfT telling PB that they have no future, and therefore PB will not in turn put them through anymore overhauls.

 

[800301]

Perhaps, it’s time for the DfT to bite their own bullet and allow any of the stored pending scrap Welsh 150s to have another summer if there are any left in store?

Only the DfT is the reason why they have not found future use elsewhere. The DfT telling PB that they have no future, and therefore PB will not in turn put them through anymore overhauls.

Have we not learnt about trying to bring train back into service from storage.

The time it takes is far too long and brings far too many problems back into the mix

 

[TastyMaltesers]

Have we not learnt about trying to bring train back into service from storage.

The time it takes is far too long and brings far too many problems back into the mix

Rumour has it that EMR are about to try...

 

[fgwrich]

Have we not learnt about trying to bring train back into service from storage.

The time it takes is far too long and brings far too many problems back into the mix

But, those that have been bought back from storage have largely had issues with their complex electronics eg 387, 175…

150s thankfully are largely devoid of this. And are a fleet Exeter TMD know the insides of probably better than the back of their own hands. It’s like bringing a 1960s Landrover out of storage vs a 2000s Range Rover.

 

[REVUpminster]

The 769s are still about. Was it Mark Hopwood who decided they were not worth the bother?

 

[Harpo]

The 769s are still about. Was it Mark Hopwood who decided they were not worth the bother?

The Greenford branch toy isn’t doing any better today with service suspended. Sad times.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

The Greenford branch toy isn’t doing any better today with service suspended. Sad times.

230001 only runs on Saturdays
If anything has failed it's a 165 (cancellations all just "unknown cause")

 

[Anonymous10]

Perhaps, it’s time for the DfT to bite their own bullet and allow any of the stored pending scrap Welsh 150s to have another summer if there are any left in store?

Only the DfT is the reason why they have not found future use elsewhere. The DfT telling PB that they have no future, and therefore PB will not in turn put them through anymore overhauls.

They dont have any time left before a exam is the issue. Better chance of 153s but that would need a conversion course.

Personally id take them and put them with a 150.

 

[TastyMaltesers]

With the power of hindsight, it might have been worth keeping a few 153s around instead of sending them all off elsewhere...

 

[RPI]

Without wanting to stray, aren't there a load of 156's in storage? Much easier to resurrect! Ideal for Barny and Okehampton!

 

[Mollman]

Without wanting to stray, aren't there a load of 156's in storage? Much easier to resurrect! Ideal for Barny and Okehampton!

I think they're the ones with corrosion problems

 

[Apedlar12]

I think they're the ones with corrosion problems

Well they've been doing work on the 175s in Wolverton, so surely it wouldn't be dissimilar if they did the same for the 156s?

When the 150s had their first C6 exams after the company rebranded to GWR, didn't they have problems with corrosion which were rectified at Wolverton?

 

[CR165022]

There's only 4 of them, 2 at Ely and 2 at Wolverton, unless also counting 156907 which is basically scrap metal.

 

[T74]

Well they've been doing work on the 175s in Wolverton, so surely it wouldn't be dissimilar if they did the same for the 156s?

When the 150s had their first C6 exams after the company rebranded to GWR, didn't they have problems with corrosion which were rectified at Wolverton?

A number of the northern 156s that have been to wolverton have been stripped back to bare frames so can’t they do same to these . They going to get a few years out of them .

 

[paultucker1012]

Much as I'd like to see the stored 150s put through Wolverton and added to the GWR fleet to create a bit of slack, it wouldn't help with the immediate problem. As far as I can see, the only short-term solution would be to short-term hire some 150 or 158 units from another TOC with spare capacity - if such an animal exists!

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Much as I'd like to see the stored 150s put through Wolverton and added to the GWR fleet to create a bit of slack, it wouldn't help with the immediate problem. As far as I can see, the only short-term solution would be to short-term hire some 150 or 158 units from another TOC with spare capacity - if such an animal exists!

Northern has stock shortages with booked short-forms, EMR is struggling with short forms as is Wales and WMT only has 3 x 150s, so in essence no spare 150s/158s from English TOCs.

 

[TastyMaltesers]

Northern has stock shortages with booked short-forms, EMR is struggling with short forms as is Wales and WMT only has 3 x 150s, so in essence no spare 150s/158s from English TOCs.

...which is probably how GWR were left with 175s as the only choice in the first place!

 

[LowLevel]

I actually think the provision of trains in this country is a bit of a national scandal beyond the usual moans about ROSCOs making money.

In an industry that is heavily subsidised by the taxpayer despite trains clearly having a service life beyond their current operations for years operators and ROSCOs have allowed them to miss exams, acquire running defects and then be placed in cold storage to be a total disaster when reactivated, causing significant extra disruption and costs.

Should not have been allowed and some serious questions should be asked of those in all organisations party to it.

Trains like class 222, 379 and 175 were never likely to be withdrawn bar petty arguments about how much they'll cost for the next operator and yet they are years past their due date for exams and falling to bits.

Government downwards have a lot to answer for in what is in my opinion despite it's private ownership a collection of assets important to the nation.

 

[TastyMaltesers]

Not a serious suggestion, but aren't there a few Voyagers spare? Could have nabbed them to cover stuff on the main line (and Laira should be familiar with the type already!)

 

[CR165022]

Not a serious suggestion, but aren't there a few Voyagers spare? Could have nabbed them to cover stuff on the main line (and Laira should be familiar with the type already!)

Between Cross Country making a case for those and EMR potentially having them short term, I don't see them going anywhere near GWR unfortunately

 

[RPI]

Between Cross Country making a case for those and EMR potentially having them short term, I don't see them going anywhere near GWR unfortunately

All joking aside, they'd probably be alright on Cardiff - Exeter

 

[Bletchleyite]

All joking aside, they'd probably be alright on Cardiff - Exeter

Bar the lack of gangway they'd be fine on anything presently 158 worked, they are basically just a poshed up one of those. (OK, technically a poshed up 156).

IF they were reliable. The big problem is that they aren't. That was always the issue with them - if only we'd had a unit that was a 170 below the solebar and a 175 above it, that would have been the ideal regional express unit.

 

[Harpo]

Divert all GWR services between Bristol and Cardiff into Bristol Parkway to terminate (to free up IETs & DMUs) and connect into Parkway to Cardiff EMUs. (One or two lying around spare aren’t there?)

Anyone who howls ‘you can’t force people to change trains midway through a journey’ probably won’t have travelled on TfW recently.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Not a serious suggestion, but aren't there a few Voyagers spare? Could have nabbed them to cover stuff on the main line (and Laira should be familiar with the type already!)

Could we just offer one voyager to every TOC who needs one. Problem solved?

 

[brad465]

How about Chiltern loan a few 165/0s to cover the Thames branches, then send 165/1s over to Bristol and Exeter, which then cascade other units onto 175 routes? The main challenge will be training drivers as the class is technically different to 165/1s.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Divert all GWR services between Bristol and Cardiff into Bristol Parkway to terminate (to free up IETs & DMUs) and connect into Parkway to Cardiff EMUs. (One or two lying around spare aren’t there?)

Anyone who howls ‘you can’t force people to change trains midway through a journey’ probably won’t have travelled on TfW recently.

All you do there is move the shortage from being a rolling stock one to a traincrew one. The ‘West’ crews who operate the Bristol to Cardiff services do not sign 387 traction.

 

[Harpo]

All you do there is move the shortage from being a rolling stock one to a traincrew one. The ‘West’ crews who operate the Bristol to Cardiff services do not sign 387 traction.

Got to be way easier and more reliable than trying to batter that barn-find fleet into life. Environmental benefits from eliminating passenger diesel running through the Severn Tunnel too.

 

[TastyMaltesers]

And what would platform occupancy at B. Parkway look like if you did that? A nightmare?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Got to be way easier and more reliable than trying to batter that barn-find fleet into life. Environmental benefits from eliminating passenger diesel running through the Severn Tunnel too.

Better trying to fix the problems with the 175s surely?

Training vast numbers of crew on new stock is not easy.

 

[Harpo]

Better trying to fix the problems with the 175s surely?

Agreed. But that’s off topic.