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SWR Class 458/4s: fleet status and withdrawal updates

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bb21

bb21

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Peter Sarf said:
I would expect similar to 455s with one, two or even three pairs out sporadically.
Assuming the 458/5s are not off lease yet ?.
Click to expand...
458/5s have been off lease for a (relatively) long time
 
Siemens Staines

Siemens Staines

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Just the one pair of 458s vice 701 allocated today (Tuesday 04.08.26) with 52 701s in service

458421 + 458423
06:22 London Waterloo to Weybridge due 07:38
08:02 Weybridge to London Waterloo due 09:28
09:52 London Waterloo to Weybridge due 11:08
11:33 Weybridge to London Waterloo due 12:58
13:18 London Waterloo to Reading due 14:43
15:09 Reading to London Waterloo due 16:35
16:48 London Waterloo to Reading due 18:14
18:39 Reading to London Waterloo due 20:07
20:18 London Waterloo to Reading due 21:41
20:48 London Waterloo to Reading due 22:13 (assumed a typo of 2C67 vice 2C76 22:09 Reading to London Waterloo)
23:52 London Waterloo to Hounslow due 00:30
Will be formed of 8 coaches instead of 10. Accessible toilet facilities are reduced.
Last Updated:04/08/2026 06:45
 
P

Peter Sarf

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bb21 said:
March 2027 if I recall although I'm a bit fuzzy on this one. Can be terminated early I think.
Click to expand...
My equally fuzzy memory agrees. It most likely seemed a long way off when first mentioned. But now its soon ish (half a year) !.

Also I would be inclined to agrre & remember it could be terminated early. Maybe unit by unit BUT then why fill up Bournemouth ? - perhaps early return has to be en masse.

I also recall that the 458/4s had to be returned in good condition so Bournemouth is possibly busy getting them back up to scratch. So they are ready on the dot.

Unlike the 458/5s which really look like they have no future. I still cannot understand why two of them are still stored on SWR given the other six are at Long Marston - perhaps awaiting repair to acceptable condition for return ?.
Or being used as Christmas trees ?.
 
Last edited:
43096

43096

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bb21 said:
March 2027 if I recall although I'm a bit fuzzy on this one. Can be terminated early I think.
Click to expand...

Peter Sarf said:
My equally fuzzy memory agrees. It most likely seemed a long way off when first mentioned. But now its soon ish (half a year) !.

Also I would be inclined to agrre & remember it could be terminated early. Maybe unit by unit BUT then why fill up Bournemouth ? - perhaps early return has to be en masse.

I also recall that the 458/4s had to be returned in good condition so Bournemouth is possibly busy getting them back up to scratch. So they are ready on the dot.

Unlike the 458/5s which really look like they have no future. I still cannot understand why two of them are still stored on SWR given the other six are at Long Marston - perhaps awaiting repair to acceptable condition for return ?.
Or being used as Christmas trees ?.
Click to expand...
Lease expiry on the 458/4s is 21/08/2027, as per the SWR national rail contract: https://assets.publishing.service.g...western-trains-ltd-national-rail-contract.pdf (page 70 and 71). While there is a note against the 455, 456 and 458 fleets saying "Units will be redelivered (and leases extended if required) in line with cascade requirements; dates for redelivery will be prior to ultimate lease end date (which is in line with last unit to be redelivered)." I would expect that to apply to the 458/5 fleet only.

I cannot see why Porterbrook would accept anything less than the full lease term of the 458/4 fleet as that will be the period over which they were expecting to recover the refurbishment cost. If SWR want to return them early, they will be expected to pay off the full lease value and likely be on the hook for storage costs for the period up to lease end.
 
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Peter Sarf

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43096 said:
Lease expiry on the 458/4s is 21/08/2027, as per the SWR national rail contract: https://assets.publishing.service.g...western-trains-ltd-national-rail-contract.pdf (page 70 and 71). While there is a note against the 455, 456 and 458 fleets saying "Units will be redelivered (and leases extended if required) in line with cascade requirements; dates for redelivery will be prior to ultimate lease end date (which is in line with last unit to be redelivered)." I would expect that to apply to the 458/5 fleet only.

I cannot see why Porterbrook would accept anything less than the full lease term of the 458/4 fleet as that will be the period over which they were expecting to recover the refurbishment cost. If SWR want to return them early, they will be expected to pay off the full lease value and likely be on the hook for storage costs for the period up to lease end.
Click to expand...
The only way Porterbrook would accept a premature termination would be if someone else wanted the 458/4s !. Then there might be room for negotiation. Other than that there may be an agreed charge BUT really, with no further use, Porterbrook might as well get the maximum they can for them up to the agreed contract termination date.

I cannot see the 458/4s getting extended beyond 21/08/2027.

It would make sense that Porterbrook would expect SWR to look after the 458/4s (storage) right up to contract term ending. So Bournemouth and other SWR locations preferable to Long Marston etc.

Just a little side thought regarding 458/4s - if anyone else ever wanted two more of them !.
Two of the 4598/5s are potentially more useful (458529 & 458530) than the rest. They were converted from 4car 458/0s so converting back to 4car 458/4s would leave them with no ex 460 coaches in. The last six 458/5s (458531 - 458536) however are 100% ex class 460s.
 
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Goldfish62

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Peter Sarf said:
The only way Porterbrook would accept a premature termination would be if someone else wanted the 458/4s !. Then there might be room for negotiation. Other than that there may be an agreed charge BUT really, with no further use, Porterbrook might as well get the maximum they can for them up to the agreed contract termination date.
Click to expand...
Is all that fact or conjecture? There will undoubtedly be an early termination clause in the lease. What leases don't have such a thing? Of course the leasee normally pays dearly for early termination, depending on the period left on the lease, but that doesn't mean to say that early termination clauses don't exist.
 
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Peter Sarf

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Goldfish62 said:
Is all that fact or conjecture? There will undoubtedly be an early termination clause in the lease. What leases don't have such a thing? Of course the leasee normally pays dearly for early termination, depending on the period left on the lease, but that doesn't mean to say that early termination clauses don't exist.
Click to expand...
I agree. It would therefore depend on the relative costs for SWR of storing 458s vs the penalty. But we are getting way into conjecture.

It is interesting to see how much SWR are having to store.
 
43096

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Peter Sarf said:
Two of the 4598/5s are potentially more useful (458529 & 458530) than the rest. They were converted from 4car 458/0s so converting back to 4car 458/4s would leave them with no ex 460 coaches in. The last six 458/5s (458531 - 458536) however are 100% ex class 460s.
Click to expand...
It's not just on the origins of the units. If you wanted to make 4-car units out of 458531-536 you have a problem with motor car/toilet configuration.

458501-530 were formed DMOS-TOS-TOSLW-MOSL-DMOS
458531-536 were formed DMOS-MOS-TOSLW-TOSL-DMOS

Given that the /4 conversion removes the TOS and an intermediate motor car is needed, there would be a conversion needed to add a toilet to the MOS.

So if more units were to be needed, 529/530 would be first choice.
 
Siemens Staines

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Two pairs of 458/4 vice 701 today (Wednesday 05.08.26)

458402 + 458415
06:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 07:29
07:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 08:52
09:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 09:56
10:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 11:19
11:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 12:26
12:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 13:49
14:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 14:58
15:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 16:19
16:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 17:28
17:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 18:49
19:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 19:56
20:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 21:19
21:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 22:26
22:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 23:52
Will be formed of 8 coaches instead of 10.
Last Updated:05/08/2026 06:03

But there is conflicting information about which diagram the second pair is working.

RTT & LRR show

458421 + 458423
2C03 0526 Staines to Reading
2C14 0639 Reading to London Waterloo
2C17 0818 London Waterloo to Reading
2C28 1009 Reading to London Waterloo
2S31 1152 London Waterloo to Weybridge
2S40 1333 Weybridge to London Waterloo
2C45 1518 London Waterloo to Reading
2C56 1709 Reading to London Waterloo
2C59 1848 London Waterloo to Reading
2C70 2039 Reading to London Waterloo
2S73 2222 London Waterloo to Weybridge

but journeycheck was updated 40 minutes after 2C03 departed and shows a different Feltham start diagram which RTT report as 701027

06:22 London Waterloo to Weybridge due 07:38
08:02 Weybridge to London Waterloo due 09:28
09:52 London Waterloo to Weybridge due 11:08
11:33 Weybridge to London Waterloo due 12:58
13:18 London Waterloo to Reading due 14:43
15:09 Reading to London Waterloo due 16:35
16:48 London Waterloo to Reading due 18:14
18:39 Reading to London Waterloo due 20:07
20:18 London Waterloo to Reading due 21:41
22:09 Reading to London Waterloo due 23:35
23:52 London Waterloo to Hounslow due 00:30
Will be formed of 8 coaches instead of 10.
Last Updated:05/08/2026 06:06
 
nctd2306

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Siemens Staines said:
06:22 London Waterloo to Weybridge due 07:38
08:02 Weybridge to London Waterloo due 09:28
09:52 London Waterloo to Weybridge due 11:08
11:33 Weybridge to London Waterloo due 12:58
13:18 London Waterloo to Reading due 14:43
15:09 Reading to London Waterloo due 16:35
16:48 London Waterloo to Reading due 18:14
18:39 Reading to London Waterloo due 20:07
20:18 London Waterloo to Reading due 21:41
22:09 Reading to London Waterloo due 23:35
23:52 London Waterloo to Hounslow due 00:30
Will be formed of 8 coaches instead of 10.
Last Updated:05/08/2026 06:06
Click to expand...
I can confirm that 701027 is currently on this diagram, seen on 2S18 at Virginia Water.
 
Siemens Staines

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Only the one pair of 458s out today (Thursday 06.08.26) which I believe is vice 701 although it is not shown as such on journeycheck.

458402 + 458426
2U09 0633 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U16 0753 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U19 0903 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U26 1023 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U29 1133 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U36 1253 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U39 1403 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U46 1523 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U49 1633 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U56 1753 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U59 1903 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U66 2023 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U69 2133 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U76 2253 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U79 0003 London Waterloo to Staines

The two moves from Wimbledon to Strawberry Hill are planned again for tomorrow

5Q95 1215 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to Strawberry Hill C.S.D.

5Q97 1515 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to Strawberry Hill C.S.D.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

There are three pairs of 458/4 allocated vice 701 today (Friday 07.08.26).

458404 + 458412
05:48 London Waterloo to Reading due 07:11
07:39 Reading to London Waterloo due 09:07
09:18 London Waterloo to Reading due 10:43
11:09 Reading to London Waterloo due 12:35
12:52 London Waterloo to Weybridge due 14:08
14:33 Weybridge to London Waterloo due 15:58
16:18 London Waterloo to Reading due 17:42
18:09 Reading to London Waterloo due 19:35
19:52 London Waterloo to Weybridge due 21:08
21:33 Weybridge to London Waterloo due 22:58
23:18 London Waterloo to Reading due 00:42
Will be formed of 8 coaches instead of 10.
Last Updated:07/08/2026 04:06

458402 + 458426
06:09 Staines to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 06:26
06:56 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 07:54
08:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 08:56
09:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 10:19
10:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 11:26
11:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 12:49
13:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 13:56
14:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 15:19
15:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 16:26
16:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 17:49
18:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 18:58
19:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 20:20
20:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 21:26
21:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 22:49
23:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 23:56
Will be formed of 8 coaches instead of 10.
Last Updated:07/08/2026 04:02

458415 + 458423
06:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 07:29 will be cancelled.
07:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 08:52 will be cancelled.
09:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 09:56
10:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 11:19
11:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 12:26
12:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 13:49
14:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 14:58
15:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 16:19
16:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 17:28
17:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 18:49
19:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 19:56
20:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 21:19
21:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 22:26
22:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 23:49
00:22 London Waterloo to Hounslow due 00:59
Will be formed of 8 coaches instead of 10.
Last Updated:07/08/2026 04:17
 
Last edited:
43096

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458412/404 currently working 2C07 0548 Waterloo to Reading; return on 2C18 0739 Reading to Waterloo.
 
W

WWTownEnth

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Siemens Staines said:
Only the one pair of 458s out today (Thursday 06.08.26) which I believe is vice 701 although it is not shown as such on journeycheck.

458402 + 458426
2U09 0633 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U16 0753 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U19 0903 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U26 1023 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U29 1133 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U36 1253 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U39 1403 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U46 1523 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U49 1633 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U56 1753 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U59 1903 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U66 2023 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U69 2133 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U76 2253 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U79 0003 London Waterloo to Staines

The two moves from Wimbledon to Strawberry Hill are planned again for tomorrow

5Q95 1215 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to Strawberry Hill C.S.D.

5Q97 1515 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to Strawberry Hill C.S.D.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

There are three pairs of 458/4 allocated vice 701 today (Friday 07.08.26).

458404 + 458412
05:48 London Waterloo to Reading due 07:11
07:39 Reading to London Waterloo due 09:07
09:18 London Waterloo to Reading due 10:43
11:09 Reading to London Waterloo due 12:35
12:52 London Waterloo to Weybridge due 14:08
14:33 Weybridge to London Waterloo due 15:58
16:18 London Waterloo to Reading due 17:42
18:09 Reading to London Waterloo due 19:35
19:52 London Waterloo to Weybridge due 21:08
21:33 Weybridge to London Waterloo due 22:58
23:18 London Waterloo to Reading due 00:42
Will be formed of 8 coaches instead of 10.
Last Updated:07/08/2026 04:06

458402 + 458426
06:09 Staines to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 06:26
06:56 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 07:54
08:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 08:56
09:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 10:19
10:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 11:26
11:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 12:49
13:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 13:56
14:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 15:19
15:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 16:26
16:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 17:49
18:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 18:58
19:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 20:20
20:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 21:26
21:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 22:49
23:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 23:56
Will be formed of 8 coaches instead of 10.
Last Updated:07/08/2026 04:02

458415 + 458423
06:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 07:29 will be cancelled.
07:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 08:52 will be cancelled.
09:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 09:56
10:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 11:19
11:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 12:26
12:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 13:49
14:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 14:58
15:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 16:19
16:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 17:28
17:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 18:49
19:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 19:56
20:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 21:19
21:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 22:26
22:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 23:49
00:22 London Waterloo to Hounslow due 00:59
Will be formed of 8 coaches instead of 10.
Last Updated:07/08/2026 04:17
Click to expand...
Forgive my ignorance but are the moves to Strawberry Hill effectively putting these units into warm store?
 
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Goldfish62

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NSEWonderer said:
I believe thats the busiest morning Rush hour Reading too
Click to expand...
It's been a year or so since I last commuted, but in my experience the 0639 and 0709 were the busiest (with the former being a current favourite for 458 substitution). However, as others have said it's a Friday, plus summer hols so I can should imagine no problems.
 
Siemens Staines

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WWTownEnth said:
Forgive my ignorance but are the moves to Strawberry Hill effectively putting these units into warm store?
Click to expand...

Yes, I believe so. 5Q95 ran today with 458416 + 458427. 458416 was already in warm store and is now at its third location - Bournemouth, Wimbledon and now Strawberry Hill.
 
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WWTownEnth

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WWTownEnth said:
Status of fleet

458401 stored at Bournemouth
458402 In passenger service
458403 stored at Bournemouth
458404 In passenger service
458405 stored at Bournemouth
458406 stored at Bournemouth
458407 stored at Bournemouth
458408 In passenger service
458409 In passenger service
458410 stored at Bournemouth
458411 stored at Bournemouth
458412 In passenger service
458413 In passenger service
458414 In passenger service
458415 In passenger service
458417 stored at Strawberry Hill
458417 stored at Bournemouth
458418 stored at Bournemouth
458419 stored at Bournemouth
458420 stored at Bournemouth
458421 In passenger service
458422 stored at Bournemouth
458423 In passenger service
458424 In passenger service
458425 stored at Bournemouth
458426 In passenger service
458417 stored at Strawberry Hill
458428 In passenger service

13/28 in passenger service
13/28 stored at Bournemouth
2/28 stored at Strawberry Hill
Click to expand...
Have updated the list - please let me know if anything is wrong.
 
Siemens Staines

Siemens Staines

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WWTownEnth said:
Have updated the list - please let me know if anything is wrong.
Click to expand...
458408 is stored Strawberry Hill since 24.07.26
458409 is stored Strawberry Hill since 27.07.26
458413 is stored Strawberry Hill since 27.07.26
458414 is stored Strawberry Hill since 24.07.26
458417 first entry should be for 458416 (at Strawberry Hill)
458424 is stored Strawberry Hill since 31.07.26

There are 7 in service (458402,404,412,415,421,423,426) although I do not know what the status of 458428 is, except that it has been inactive since 14.07.26, so could possibly return to service.
 
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WWTownEnth

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WWTownEnth said:
Status of fleet

458401 stored at Bournemouth
458402 In passenger service
458403 stored at Bournemouth
458404 In passenger service
458405 stored at Bournemouth
458406 stored at Bournemouth
458407 stored at Bournemouth
458408 stored at Strawberry Hill
458409 stored at Strawberry Hill
458410 stored at Bournemouth
458411 stored at Bournemouth
458412 In passenger service
458413 stored at Strawberry Hill
458414 stored at Strawberry Hill
458415 In passenger service
458416 stored at Strawberry Hill
458417 stored at Bournemouth
458418 stored at Bournemouth
458419 stored at Bournemouth
458420 stored at Bournemouth
458421 In passenger service
458422 stored at Bournemouth
458423 In passenger service
458424 stored at Strawberry Hill
458425 stored at Bournemouth
458426 In passenger service
458417 stored at Strawberry Hill
458428 In passenger service

8/28 in passenger service
13/28 stored at Bournemouth
7/28 stored at Strawberry Hill
Click to expand...
Many thanks. Updated…..I’ve left 428 listed as in service for now.
 
43096

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nctd2306 said:
It will cope fine on a Friday, I've been on 4 car 455 2C18s on a Friday that didn't leave people behind. That's how empty most Friday morning "peak" trains are these days!
Click to expand...
Indeed. I was on 2C14 this morning and it was empty. Had a pair of seats to myself throughout.
 
Siemens Staines

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Two pairs of 458/4 out vice 701 today (Saturday 08.08.26)

458404 + 458412
04:58 Staines to London Waterloo due 05:46
06:18 London Waterloo to Reading due 07:43
08:09 Reading to London Waterloo due 09:37
09:52 London Waterloo to Weybridge due 11:08
11:20 Weybridge to Virginia Water due 11:32
11:40 Virginia Water to Weybridge due 11:53
12:03 Weybridge to London Waterloo due 13:28
13:48 London Waterloo to Reading due 15:11
15:39 Reading to London Waterloo due 17:05
17:22 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 18:30
18:48 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 19:58
20:18 London Waterloo to Reading due 21:43
22:09 Reading to London Waterloo due 23:35
Will be formed of 8 coaches instead of 10.
Last Updated:08/08/2026 05:17

458402 + 458426
06:33 Staines to London Waterloo due 07:28
07:48 London Waterloo to Reading due 09:11
09:39 Reading to London Waterloo due 11:05
11:22 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 12:30
12:48 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 13:58
14:18 London Waterloo to Reading due 15:43
16:08 Reading to London Waterloo due 17:35
17:52 London Waterloo to Weybridge due 19:08
19:20 Weybridge to Virginia Water due 19:32
19:40 Virginia Water to Weybridge due 19:53
20:03 Weybridge to London Waterloo due 21:28
21:48 London Waterloo to Reading due 23:11
Will be formed of 8 coaches instead of 10.
Last Updated:08/08/2026 05:17
 
S

Snow1964

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Peter Sarf said:
I agree. It would therefore depend on the relative costs for SWR of storing 458s vs the penalty. But we are getting way into conjecture.

It is interesting to see how much SWR are having to store.
Click to expand...
Having to, is probably not strictly correct.

If they are leasing them anyway, then they are choosing (rather than having to) not to use them and store them. In theory whilst they are on the books and available, they could keep using them and transfer the 450s to mainline work, or if they don't have crowded services that need strengthening store some 450s instead.

At the moment SWR appear to be leasing, but not using about 220 coaches (170 class 701, and around 50 class 458). There is element of standardisation (and shoddy service ready condition of 701/5 so can't yet be used) but there is a financial cost of having this stock. And which is least worst cost, to store or return. There has been no takers to sub-lease them to another operator either.

I am not clear if a 458 or a 450 is cheaper to operate, both require maintenance at mileage intervals, but which is cheaper to use over next 12 months until lease expires is not obvious.

It might even be as simple as trying to free up maintenance space at Wimbledon so they can take on remaining 701s, whereas 450s are Northam's responsibility
 
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