Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[DDB]

That is what I would guess but why not say signallers or even signalbox which is a term outsiders would recognise and as you say the signalling system provides the same protection to a train in terms of not signalling another train onto the same bit of track regardless of whether it can talk to the static train.

 

[800001]

Presumably the emergency egress handles will still allow the doors to be released, were the stationary unit being reset be involved in some sort of incident?

Oh yes absolutely. Emergency egress will still work, it is just the doors operated by the open and close buttons that will not.

 

[Mattplans]

Behind a paywall, so can’t see it; but yet another serious sign if true.

Not a paywall, it's free. They just want you to create an account. I think it might be to do with preventing AI scraping. Meanwhile they're collecting a lot of personal info !

'Trains are likely to fail': RMT to strike over East Midlands Railway '810' safety concerns​

• By David Stubbings
• |
• 21 July 2026
• News

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East Midlands Railway’s (EMR) problems with Class 810s have intensified with the RMT confirming it will hold a series of one-day strikes due to safety concerns.
The union that represents on-train staff has been in dispute with the operator since April, accusing the operator of failing to address safety concerns with the Hitachi-built bi-mode units. Members will hold a one-day strike on August 1, 8 and 15 after more than 97% of those who voted agreed to the industrial action.
It has accused EMR of sending ‘810s’ into service that are likely to fail and require a full reset which leaves them no active safety systems. This includes a loss of communication between drivers, dispatches and trackside.
RMT has said this has happened three times in the last week.
The notice, seen by RAIL, says: “Under certain fault conditions it may be required to complete the train Aux Off/Aux on operation for the fault to (be) remedied.
“This procedure effectively turns all train systems off, and then on again, causing a period of approximately 20 minutes where essential safety systems become unavailable.”
Drivers have been told they must ensure the signaller is aware of the fault and that a full line block and alternative means of communication are in place.
Train managers must confirm passenger numbers and identify vulnerable passengers, while those standing near doorways are not at risk if services are full and standing. They must also ensure light sticks are used if resets take place after dark.
The notice also says they must remain visible to reassure passengers and that a “suitable announcement is made to inform passengers of expected time frame for completion”.
Sources have told RAIL that units are being rushed in to try and maintain services on EMR’s intercity routes from London to Sheffield and Nottingham.

The Class 810s were supposed to be in service from 2023 but the first only carried passengers in December 2025. Their late introduction into service has placed further wear on Class 222s they are replacing. Both fleets have suffered from poor reliability since the turn of the year.
RAIL understands staff morale is at rock bottom due to the reliability issues on EMR intercity services, with overcrowding, cancelled services and trains failing mid-journey all regular occurrences.

RMT General Secretary, Eddie Dempsey, said: “The company has even put out safety notices with no involvement, consultation or negotiation with our reps who represent those most at risk.
“RMT is demanding that whilst these faults exist and until these trains are shown to be operating properly, they should be taken out of service.”
An EMR spokesperson told RAIL: “Any suggestion that the Hitachi Rail Class 810 fleet does not meet the required safety standards is incorrect. These trains entered passenger service only after successfully completing all required testing and meeting the rigorous safety standards required by the independent regulator.
"We recognise the Class 810 fleet has encountered performance and reliability issues in service and are working with the manufacturer, Hitachi Rail, to resolve these issues as quickly as possible.
"EMR continues to engage in discussions with RMT regarding this dispute."
The announcement comes a day after EMR introduced its reduced timetable due to ongoing reliability issues.
It stated that while the Class 810s met all necessary safety standards and have received regulatory approvals, their operational reliability was "not to the standard EMR expects". The subsequent issues has left frontline teams struggling to manage services with trains, with regular cancellations and delays occuring across the EMR network.
Hitachi Rail has said it will "work closely with all industry partners during the entry-into-service phase of the Class 810 fleet, implementing improvements and supporting the transition from the existing fleet to new Aurora trains".

 

[800001]

the reset process described above is exactly the same as on all other 8XX fleets and I can guarantee happens several times a day on all the TOCs that operate these Hitachi fleets

 

[Nym]

You would of thought that unless they met the standards that ORR would not authorise them for traffic

Please don't uncover the rock of how "Well" RIR requirements are organised in the post Brexit UK.

 

[800001]

Please don't uncover the rock of how "Well" RIR requirements are organised in the post Brexit UK.

Rir?

 

[Kite159]

The simple solution is that if the train requires rebooting the service gets terminated at that station with all the passengers forced to leave the train, and once the train has rebooted it runs ECS to wherever it was going. That way the RMT will be happy no passenger is being put at risk during the process

 

[westcoaster]

This same procedure happens daily all over the country, on trains produced by all different manufacturers. lots of different names but the same procedure, Aux off/on, Battery off and on, tripping the auxhillaries.
Not sure why it's being made a big thing. Trains still have full signal protection, and as long as you make lots of PA's letting passengers know what to expect, and how long it takes to carry out the reset.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2026 ==

The simple solution is that if the train requires rebooting the service gets terminated at that station with all the passengers forced to leave the train, and once the train has rebooted it runs ECS to wherever it was going. That way the RMT will be happy no passenger is being put at risk during the process

not easy if you are not in a station

 

[Railperf]

I was once aboard a French TGV-Reseau set that seemed to need a full reset at two intermediate stations. The whole process took 20 minutes each time!!

 

[Doubleyellow]

Rir?

The Railways (Interoperability) Regulations 2011

These Regulations implement the provisions of Directive 2008/57/EC (the “Directive”) of the European Parliament and of the Council of 17th June 2008 (O.J. No. L 191, 18.7.2008, p1, as amended by Commission Directive 2009/131/EC O.J. No. L 273, 17.10.2009, p12 and Commission Directive 2011/18/EU...

www.legislation.gov.uk

 

[DDB]

If they are already refusing to operate 810s with certain faults there is no need to strike and refuse to operate the 222s on Saturdays. It certainly gives the impression the staff just want Saturdays off. Especially with that terrible press release that manges the incredible feat of both failing to explain the issue (why do guards need to speak to the lineside) and scaremongering (all safety systems disabled)

 

[800001]

If they are already refusing to operate 810s with certain faults there is no need to strike and refuse to operate the 222s on Saturdays. It certainly gives the impression the staff just want Saturdays off. Especially with that terrible press release that manges the incredible feat of both failing to explain the issue (why do guards need to speak to the lineside) and scaremongering (all safety systems disabled)

I agreed it seems no different to any other toc with any other fleet that has faults appearing during the day.

 

[LowLevel]

Which other TOCs have been in such a state for so many consecutive months recently?

The same trains fail with the same faults over and again. Find a 222 with 5 working engines in traffic.

The staff involved not only have to mitigate the faults (working on sealed trains with knackered air conditioning and playing hunt the working bog is no fun), they have to deal with the trains being randomly pulled out of service when they decide they've had enough. Or trying to get into a part of the train they need to access and finding their keys don't work.

Then they have to deal with the angry passengers who've also had months of their trains being cancelled/overheating/being overcrowded.

They don't seem to have any faith in imminent improvement.

The Midland Main Line was one of the most boringly reliable operations going for the last 20 years.

 

[800001]

Which other TOCs have been in such a state for so many consecutive months recently?

The same trains fail with the same faults over and again. Find a 222 with 5 working engines in traffic.

The staff involved not only have to mitigate the faults (working on sealed trains with knackered air conditioning and playing hunt the working bog is no fun), they have to deal with the trains being randomly pulled out of service when they decide they've had enough. Or trying to get into a part of the train they need to access and finding their keys don't work.

Then they have to deal with the angry passengers who've also had months of their trains being cancelled/overheating/being overcrowded.

They don't seem to have any faith in imminent improvement.

The Midland Main Line was one of the most boringly reliable operations going for the last 20 years.

They should check there keys work before the train starts its service as part of there pre-service checks.

 

[InTheEastMids]

If they are already refusing to operate 810s with certain faults there is no need to strike and refuse to operate the 222s on Saturdays. It certainly gives the impression the staff just want Saturdays off. Especially with that terrible press release that manges the incredible feat of both failing to explain the issue (why do guards need to speak to the lineside) and scaremongering (all safety systems disabled)

Certainly the timing of this union announcement, so soon after the other announcements seems quite interesting.

On standards/regulations comments upthread: I'm not familiar with rail standards but having managed standards assurance/compliance work in other sectors, compliance with standards and regulations is an area of deep specialism, particularly where they may not be completely prescriptive, and so nobody should be putting too much faith in things people* are saying on the internet unless they are providing corroboration (*"people" includes me. You don't know if I really have this experience).

I would hope/assume that EMR had technical support (consultants!) who were assessing Hitachi's work from design onwards to satisfy EMR that the trains complied with all relevant standards and regulations. Although it's possible that issues can emerge in service, and obviously technical faults can leave a train in a non compliant state.

 

[liamf656]

I agreed it seems no different to any other toc with any other fleet that has faults appearing during the day.

Lowlevel has pretty much summed it up perfectly but just to add on their point, if you search the 222/810 fleets as a whole on RTT+, and search back each day for about a month or two, you'll be able to roughly count the sheer amount of in-service failures on both fleets

They should check there keys work before the train starts its service as part of there pre-service checks.

I've seen that they keys/locks will work for most of the day, before the key jams or snaps in the lock later on. It's unforseen unfortunately

Certainly the timing of this union announcement, so soon after the other announcements seems quite interesting.

The ballot and mandate will have been done before the emergency timetable was announced. It's usually a few weeks between balloting and the strike announcement

 

[YamYamDave]

Beyond 221s pencilled for XC and ex Chiltern mk3 sets (both not easily available id imagine) what other options do EMR have to resolve this?

 

[liamf656]

If they are already refusing to operate 810s with certain faults there is no need to strike and refuse to operate the 222s on Saturdays. It certainly gives the impression the staff just want Saturdays off. Especially with that terrible press release that manges the incredible feat of both failing to explain the issue (why do guards need to speak to the lineside) and scaremongering (all safety systems disabled)

It's not about refusing to work a 222 or 810. The point of the strike will be to put a strong and firm message out that this needs addressing ASAP, hence going for the biggest impact

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jul 2026 ==

Beyond 221s pencilled for XC and ex Chiltern mk3 sets (both not easily available id imagine) what other options do EMR have to resolve this?

This thread speculates a lot on potential options. I personally don't see anything being drafted in at this time but we'll see how things progress I suppose

Stopgap options to cover for delays to introduction of Class 810 for EMR?

Moderator note: split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-810-for-east-midlands-railway-construction-introduction-updates.195052/page-115#post-7169043 Recent rumour control (and I emphasise RUMOUR, albeit from “inside”)… First 222s to leave in December for full refurb prior to...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[800001]

Lowlevel has pretty much summed it up perfectly but just to add on their point, if you search the 222/810 fleets as a whole on RTT+, and search back each day for about a month or two, you'll be able to roughly count the sheer amount of in-service failures on both fleets

i was referring to the process for dealing with faults eg aux off/on

 

[Snow1964]

Beyond 221s pencilled for XC and ex Chiltern mk3 sets (both not easily available id imagine) what other options do EMR have to resolve this?

Really EMR management from 2019 when they ordered the trains should have thought of this, any competent managers would have done stress test scenarios regarding plans if new trains didn't work properly or where delayed.

Or they might have just 'winged it' and not had a backup plan, and not done any managing. A thinned out service at very short notice is not a strategic plan, it is panic reaction

 

[Russel]

Really EMR management from 2019 when they ordered the trains should have thought of this, any competent managers would have done stress test scenarios regarding plans if new trains didn't work properly or where delayed.

Or they might have just 'winged it' and not had a backup plan, and not done any managing. A thinned out service at very short notice is not a strategic plan, it is panic reaction

And this is why EMR cannot be allowed to pass all of the blame onto Hitachi alone here.

 

[dosxuk]

I can actually accept that the 810 issues are out of EMR's control. I doubt Hitachi themselves are happy with the situation and would much rather the stock was fully delivered and in service several years ago.

On the other hand, they've got to own the problems with the 222's. They've clearly and obviously been scrimping on the maintenance and upkeep of this stock, which has gone from being highly reliable and comfortable trains to a dirty, unkempt, broken mess in only a few years, and only after they took over the franchise. Sure they didn't expect to need them as long as they have, but they've clearly been looking after them as if they've only got 6 months left for 5 years now. When it became clear that the 810's were not going to be fully available, they should have been proactively extending the leases - the whole situation with Lumo would never have happened if EMR had committed to retaining the 222's for longer.

Luckily for EMR, some of the blame can also be pointed at the Government for it's never ending failures to electrify the route. At least there is an argument for keeping the 810's. It would have been rather embarrassing if they'd managed to get wires all the way to Sheffield before the new bi-mode stock was fully introduced. At this point an old fleet of 379's or 350's would have been preferable to to what we're actually getting and the mess that we've ended up with.

Always worth remembering that their original stock plans for the regional side involved them taking the 171's... that went well too.

 

[fishwomp]

Really EMR management from 2019 when they ordered the trains should have thought of this, any competent managers would have done stress test scenarios regarding plans if new trains didn't work properly or where delayed.

Or they might have just 'winged it' and not had a backup plan, and not done any managing. A thinned out service at very short notice is not a strategic plan, it is panic reaction

Seriously?

Is it that ridiculous to expect that ..

Hitachi, with a substantial deployment of similar technology (ie. 800/1/2/3) (yes, we know it's not identical), would - at worst - deliver something six months or a year late?

That Japanese design and quality control would be superb?

There would be no pandemic - just like the previous 98 years? (even if this accounts for only one year at worst)

???

I don't think it's something that can reasonably be attributed to EMR management.

If them, why not also DfT - who have pulled _every_ string of theirs since 2020 and hold a more global picture of the fleet, who foolishly - in spite of the obviously foreseeable pandemic and Hitachi failures, allowed the 222s to be lined up for Scotrail?

Obviously - and particularly given its proximity to Sheffield, they _should_ have been activating the strategic reserve from the Woodhead tunnel.

 

[richardderby]

less than 3 months of the EMR franchise left, EMR Management are probably just treading water (and taking the money) until they hamd back the keys..

 

[jthjth]

I can actually accept that the 810 issues are out of EMR's control. I doubt Hitachi themselves are happy with the situation and would much rather the stock was fully delivered and in service several years ago.

On the other hand, they've got to own the problems with the 222's. They've clearly and obviously been scrimping on the maintenance and upkeep of this stock, which has gone from being highly reliable and comfortable trains to a dirty, unkempt, broken mess in only a few years, and only after they took over the franchise. Sure they didn't expect to need them as long as they have, but they've clearly been looking after them as if they've only got 6 months left for 5 years now. When it became clear that the 810's were not going to be fully available, they should have been proactively extending the leases - the whole situation with Lumo would never have happened if EMR had committed to retaining the 222's for longer.

Luckily for EMR, some of the blame can also be pointed at the Government for it's never ending failures to electrify the route. At least there is an argument for keeping the 810's. It would have been rather embarrassing if they'd managed to get wires all the way to Sheffield before the new bi-mode stock was fully introduced. At this point an old fleet of 379's or 350's would have been preferable to to what we're actually getting and the mess that we've ended up with.

Always worth remembering that their original stock plans for the regional side involved them taking the 171's... that went well too.

Has any of this been under the control of EMR’s management? Remember that since Covid non nationalised franchises have been operated under National Rail Contracts, where the DfT specifies exactly what can be spent where.

 

[222001]

On the other hand, they've got to own the problems with the 222's. They've clearly and obviously been scrimping on the maintenance and upkeep of this stock, which has gone from being highly reliable and comfortable trains to a dirty, unkempt, broken mess in only a few years, and only after they took over the franchise. Sure they didn't expect to need them as long as they have, but they've clearly been looking after them as if they've only got 6 months left for 5 years now. When it became clear that the 810's were not going to be fully available, they should have been proactively extending the leases - the whole situation with Lumo would never have happened if EMR had committed to retaining the 222's for longer.

Hitachi are also responsible for maintenance of the 222s, and I'd say it's been a downward slope ever since they took over the maintenance from Alstom.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jul 2026 ==

less than 3 months of the EMR franchise left, EMR Management are probably just treading water (and taking the money) until they hamd back the keys.

EMR being 'nationalised' hasn't been announced yet, and with December officially announced for GWR, I'd guess EMR won't be until after then at the very least.

 

[jthjth]

Hitachi are also responsible for maintenance of the 222s, and I'd say it's been a downward slope ever since they took over the maintenance from Alstom.

Depends on what budget and maintenance specifications Hitachi have been given by the DfT via EMR. There’s a world of difference between proactive maintenance and only fixing what has immediately failed.

 

[londonmidland]

Got anyone interested, you can see what onboard facilities are, or should I say aren’t, in use on board the train.

The Class 810 services usually stick out, as more than often, there’s a message about one or more toilets being out of use.

This link takes you to the Wordline’s departure website, which lists the same messages as what you’d see on the customer information screens at the station.

The link takes you to departures from Leicester, however you can choose your desired station - providing they utilise Worldline LICC.

Departures from Leicester station, provided by Worldline.

 

[whoosh]

Japanese design and quality control.

But isn't it the Italian quality control at former Ansaldobreda? The company that had to buy back high speed trains from the Dutch railways because they didn't work.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Got anyone interested, you can see what onboard facilities are, or should I say aren’t, in use on board the train.

The Class 810 services usually stick out, as more than often, there’s a message about one or more toilets being out of use.

This link takes you to the Wordline’s departure website, which lists the same messages as what you’d see on the customer information screens at the station.

The link takes you to departures from Leicester, however you can choose your desired station - providing they utilise Worldline LICC.


View attachment 208047

Sorry does that say the 10:10 is a 5 coaches with the rear 3 coaches locked? 2 coaches surely won't be fun.