£33.4 million for next batch of ticket gates

[BG2024]

I'd love to see them at lime street p10, maybe 3 gates at a squeeze for a full cl390 is going to make for an experience

I got off a 6-car TPE there a couple of weeks ago and it took forever to get out. The crowd wasn't moving at all and people at the back were getting frustrated about missing connections. Dumping a Pendolino's worth of passengers there and then adding barriers at the end could get really messy.

 

[Mattplans]

The new FEnX gates are much, much harder to push through from what I've heard. One of the Cubic technicians said some of his colleagues tried to bump the demo they have in their office and none of them could. He showed a picture of the mechanism and I can see why they failed to force the paddles. They have heavy duty chains, sprockets, and a big motor. In all fairness, the current design is supposed to open with force to prevent crowd crushes. I think the new design uses cameras and sensors to detect this instead.

And in an emergency how do you get out of the station then?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

And in an emergency how do you get out of the station then?

Someone presses the emergency button on the gateline that opens them all?
Maybe wire it into the fire alarm too?

 

[Mattplans]

Someone presses the emergency button on the gateline that opens them all?

Right... I don't think this is made very clear to passengers that such a button even exists though?

It's been covered on the forum before that more and more toc's are becoming patchy in supervision of gatelines. Not uncommon to see unsupervised gatelines.

No big deal as with the current gatelines if there's an emergency it is not very difficult to push your way through the WAG without pressing the emergency plunger. Although I note some customers have been aggrieved by unsupervised gatelines and a reluctance to bump them to avoid violating the byelaws, I imagine in an emergency that concern goes out of the window. Also, isn't that plunger usually in a locked cabinet?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Right... I don't think this is made very clear to passengers that such a button even exists though?

It's been covered on the forum before that more and more toc's are becoming patchy in supervision of gatelines. Not uncommon to see unsupervised gatelines.

No big deal as with the current gatelines if there's an emergency it is not very difficult to push your way through the WAG without pressing the emergency plunger. Although I note some customers have been aggrieved by unsupervised gatelines and a reluctance to bump them to avoid violating the byelaws, I imagine in an emergency that concern goes out of the window. Also, isn't that plunger usually in a locked cabinet?

In the one at Wigan at least, the cabinet itself is lockable, but the emergency button is outside of it.

 

[MrJeeves]

Also, isn't that plunger usually in a locked cabinet?

It's (usually) behind a piece of glass on the control cabinets, to dissuade reckless use of it.

A gateline being closed with no staff nearby and you unable to leave wouldn't be misuse of it, though.

 

[jon0844]

The last paragraph is very interesting in being a recognition that a lot more stations will be gated. Presumably the value of having more robust gates and possibly getting to a stage where all urban stations are gated is being noted given ticketing changes.

I note that Stevenage and Worthing are already gated, so perhaps in line for the new more robust gatelines. If so, it would seem odd to just discard the existing gates rather than reinstalling them elsewhere.

Stevenage is supposed to be getting gates for the lifts (I thought they should already be in place, but aren't), but assuming the new style gates go there - I expect they'll change the main gateline too.

 

[Russel]

Right... I don't think this is made very clear to passengers that such a button even exists though?

It's been covered on the forum before that more and more toc's are becoming patchy in supervision of gatelines. Not uncommon to see unsupervised gatelines.

No big deal as with the current gatelines if there's an emergency it is not very difficult to push your way through the WAG without pressing the emergency plunger. Although I note some customers have been aggrieved by unsupervised gatelines and a reluctance to bump them to avoid violating the byelaws, I imagine in an emergency that concern goes out of the window. Also, isn't that plunger usually in a locked cabinet?

Simple solution, other than the emergency button is to link the gates up to the fire alarm system.

Not sure why we are so averse to using remote monitoring of gatelines outside of staffed hours.

 

[jon0844]

The major long-term cost is of course reliably staffing them for the majority of service hours.

You can have the most fancy gates you like but without being staffed and monitored regularly (in person or possibly remotely), they’ll be open so they because considerably less of a deterrent.

The DfT has apparently been visiting stations and discussing things like first and last cover for the gates, and I wonder if they're looking at staffing more stations for the whole time trains run - similar to what TfL did when taking over stations for London Overground.

That could mean a lot of new staff as there's no way you can run a gateline late at night with less than two people, or possibly supported by Travel Safe Officers.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jul 2026 ==

Or alternatively to change their role from confrontation and challenge to one of providing passenger assistance. If the gates do the revenue protection role well, the attendant can assist passengers who need it.

If the gates are that good at stopping someone from pushing through, any staff are at potential risk as the person demands to be let out.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jul 2026 ==

The new FEnX gates are much, much harder to push through from what I've heard. One of the Cubic technicians said some of his colleagues tried to bump the demo they have in their office and none of them could. He showed a picture of the mechanism and I can see why they failed to force the paddles. They have heavy duty chains, sprockets, and a big motor. In all fairness, the current design is supposed to open with force to prevent crowd crushes. I think the new design uses cameras and sensors to detect this instead.

The current gates have adjustable levels of resistance (out of 10). I think they're all set relatively low (like around 5 or 6) which makes it easier to bump, presumably because of the fear of someone being hurt. Apparently they're slightly harder to bump on the way in than out (I expect to allow someone to push through easier in an emergency) but the point is they could be better than they are.

 

[saismee]

Simple solution, other than the emergency button is to link the gates up to the fire alarm system.

Not sure why we are so averse to using remote monitoring of gatelines outside of staffed hours.

They are linked into the fire alarm. The gates automatically open in the event of power failure, fire alarm, or EMO (emergency plunger) activation. The emergency plunger is located in a locked box, but covered by either glass, a magnetic cover, or nothing.

Without the push-through safety feature I can't see any reasons the gates wouldn't be safe. Gateline staff are told that the safety of the gateline is their responsibility, though management seem to disagree whenever the gates are opened for safety!

 

[Russel]

They are linked into the fire alarm. The gates automatically open in the event of power failure, fire alarm, or EMO (emergency plunger) activation. The emergency plunger is located in a locked box, but covered by either glass, a magnetic cover, or nothing.

Without the push-through safety feature I can't see any reasons the gates wouldn't be safe. Gateline staff are told that the safety of the gateline is their responsibility, though management seem to disagree whenever the gates are opened for safety!

With that many safety precautions in place, it does raise the question of why they are so easy to push through.

 

[saismee]

With that many safety precautions in place, it does raise the question of why they are so easy to push through.

Poor design of the parts, they are known to loosen or outright fail. The wide gate at Colchester had a part snap in half, causing one paddle to be completely floppy until a new part could be sourced (not quickly).

 

[Russel]

Poor design of the parts, they are known to loosen or outright fail. The wide gate at Colchester had a part snap in half, causing one paddle to be completely floppy until a new part could be sourced (not quickly).

May be pure coincidence, but every time I use Colchester the gates are open, usually a Saturday morning.

 

[CyrusWuff]

With that many safety precautions in place, it does raise the question of why they are so easy to push through.

Cubic's Wide Aisle Gates are deliberately designed to have a lower push-through force than the Standard ones. Possibly due to the larger paddles and/or higher risk of entrapment given they're generally used by less mobile passengers.

 

[Benjwri]

All this talk of in an emergency, but when using CCST I probably have a 50% success, rate in it working, my local station's TVM has been unable to encode properly for a year and GWR don't care. How do I get out if it's unstaffed? The current remote datelines only connect to the other don't they? Are they going to outsource opening them to a call centre like NRE? How long before people have to sit in a queue to speak to someone to get out a station?

 

[saismee]

May be pure coincidence, but every time I use Colchester the gates are open, usually a Saturday morning.

Around what time, which gateline?

 

[Bletchleyite]

They are linked into the fire alarm. The gates automatically open in the event of power failure, fire alarm, or EMO (emergency plunger) activation.

This worries me. Escaping from a fire or crush should always be passive, never active. It strikes me that this is an attempt - a potentially dangerous one - to avoid funding proper staffing both at gatelines and on trains.

I have twice had to push through gates because of there being no staff there and the plunger not working or not being accessible.

It also concerns me that if the gates are designed to encourage scanning even when open that that may lead to de facto compostage (mandatory scanning before boarding and on exit) and thus the end of split ticketing.

 

[Russel]

Around what time, which gateline?

Usually around 10am on a Saturday morning and the exit on the Asda side of the station, I've only left the station a couple of times, usually to get the bus if I've arrived just in time to miss the Town shuttle, so probably pure coincidence.

I didn't actually know there was more than one exit from the station, I've always used the same one!

 

[paulmch]

Barriers at Tamworth and Nuneaton is great news for XC - I dread to think how much revenue the 170 routes lose from those two stations!

 

[Russel]

Barriers at Tamworth and Nuneaton is great news for XC - I dread to think how much revenue the 170 routes lose from those two stations!

To be fair, I don't think XC care, their onboard ticket checks are almost non existent, even when the TM's can get through the train.

 

[dk1]

So good to hear. Doing away with Delay Repay 15 would be another logical step.

 

[JonathanH]

Barriers at Tamworth and Nuneaton is great news for XC - I dread to think how much revenue the 170 routes lose from those two stations!

Odd not to see Lichfield Trent Valley completing the set on the Trent Valley, although Atherstone and Rugeley Trent Valley missing out are perhaps a bit more understandable.

 

[saismee]

Usually around 10am on a Saturday morning and the exit on the Asda side of the station, I've only left the station a couple of times, usually to get the bus if I've arrived just in time to miss the Town shuttle, so probably pure coincidence.

I didn't actually know there was more than one exit from the station, I've always used the same one!

Strange. It's rostered as 2 morning, 1 middle (meal break cover), and 2 late. Colchester is properly staffed, or has been for the past couple months, so I don't see why they would be open, unless both people took a break at the same time. The management in that area is quite attentive as I hear, so it is certainly being monitored.

 

[Starmill]

It also concerns me that if the gates are designed to encourage scanning even when open that that may lead to de facto compostage (mandatory scanning before boarding and on exit) and thus the end of split ticketing.

The IanVisits article implies that this is how the Fenx gate is configured. Probably just a misinterpretation though.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jul 2026 ==

At last, Worcester!

Let's hope they actually get installed there this time, rather than last time when they were delivered to WMT and then ended up at Bury St Edmunds...

 

[Russel]

Odd not to see Lichfield Trent Valley completing the set on the Trent Valley, although Atherstone and Rugeley Trent Valley missing out are perhaps a bit more understandable.

Not sure where barriers would go at Lichfield, there is very little undercover space and Atherstone is unstaffed and would require two separate gatelines, one for each platform, so can't see it happening for the handful of passengers it gets each hour, given both north and southbound services arrive within 5 minutes of each other, you'd be paying staff to stand around doing very little for 40 minutes out of 60 each hour.

Strange. It's rostered as 2 morning, 1 middle (meal break cover), and 2 late. Colchester is properly staffed, or has been for the past couple months, so I don't see why they would be open, unless both people took a break at the same time. The management in that area is quite attentive as I hear, so it is certainly being monitored.

Gates were certainly open on Saturday morning, though maybe the disruption at Stratford could explain it?

The previous time was a couple of months ago, similar time on a Saturday morning, as I said, probably coincidence.

I got a train from Clacton later in the evening and it was good to see ticket checks being done there to access the platform, GA certainly take revenue protection seriously, it's good to see, plenty of other TOC's could learn from them.

 

[JonathanH]

Not sure where barriers would go at Lichfield, there is very little undercover space and Atherstone is unstaffed and would require two separate gatelines, one for each platform, so can't see it happening for the handful of passengers it gets each hour.

They would go in a shelter, much as has happened at stations elsewhere, with improved fencing fitted along the rest of the length of the platform.

 

[Starmill]

They all have the same effect.

Not really. The entrance on platform 1 isn't gated. It's very common that the TPE gates are open while the Avanti ones are closed, and vice versa. You could always get between the paid and unpaid sides by using the footbridge anyway when it was just the Avanti gates.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The IanVisits article implies that this is how the Fenx gate is configured. Probably just a misinterpretation though.

I now forget where I read it, but earlier on I read another article that wasn't his that confirms that the gates are designed to "nudge" you into scanning/tapping even when open, by beeping at you if you fail to do so.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jul 2026 ==

Push-through should be seen as a last resort in terms of opening gates.

Absolutely, but it is potentially dangerous if it is not possible for someone (by which I mean "the smallest child likely to be out on their own") to do so. There is a reason that fire exits are required to have panic bars or similar and not just a key on the other side of the room.

This is just a ploy to reduce staffing, and one that does so by putting passengers at risk in the event of fire or crush. Yes, the fire alarm might release them or yes image analysis might look for a crush, but those are active technologies, and thus they have the potential to fail wrong-side. And fires, floods and the likes have a nasty habit of playing havoc with electrical systems and causing them to do strange things.

 

[saismee]

I got a train from Clacton later in the evening and it was good to see ticket checks being done there to access the platform, GA certainly take revenue protection seriously, it's good to see, plenty of other TOC's could learn from them.

That's because all the on-train revenue staff are being used to "push back" anyone attempting to board ticketless while the government is doing revenue surveys. I do agree it is good, but it often means fewer on-train staff. A lot of random stations have surprise blockades at once, but only to prevent entry AIUI. It does appear to be effective, especially against kids.

 

[AlterEgo]

Netherlands seems to manage without staffing gates, even gating unstaffed stations.

It does have a much simpler ticketing system to be fair.