Next priority project - re-doubling of SW mainline.

[yorksrob]

It's not a main line though, and hasn't been for many decades.

It is very much a main line for the area. The singling seemed to be very much an ill advised Beeching era experiment. The only other place I can think of it happening was north of Princes Risborough, and that has quite rightly been redoubled.

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These I would place with Farnworth as 'upgrades' (all 3 were to permit electrification, IIRC), rather than to maintain Business As Usual.

I think the route has long gone past the point where "business as usual" has been adequate.

More intensive services, longer trains, 159 replacement etc are required.

 

[zwk500]

It is very much a main line for the area.

Everywhere is a main line for it's area. Doesn't mean it's a 'main line' in the context of the national network, whatever the intentions of a board of directors 150 years ago.

 

[DelW]

It is very much a main line for the area. The singling seemed to be very much an ill advised Beeching era experiment. The only other place I can think of it happening was north of Princes Risborough, and that has quite rightly been redoubled.

My recollection is that singling west of Salisbury was the only way to stave off complete closure, which was thought to be a likely outcome of the Beeching review.

Another factor may have been that the line had been transferred from Southern to Western Region in the early 1960s, and (only fifteen years or so after nationalisation) there were senior figures there who still had the traditional GWR's hatred of anything Southern.

The usage of the West of England line at that time was not too much different from the S&D, itself previously a Southern / London Midland line, which the Western Region acquired and quickly closed.

So without the "ill advised Beeching era experiment" there would probably not have been a Salisbury to Exeter line at all today, just a few abandoned earthworks and maybe some cycle tracks.

 

[stuu]

It is very much a main line for the area. The singling seemed to be very much an ill advised Beeching era experiment. The only other place I can think of it happening was north of Princes Risborough, and that has quite rightly been redoubled.

The Cotswold line and the one to Stroud were both singled in places and have been redoubled in part. Seems to have been a WR thing

 

[zwk500]

The Cotswold line and the one to Stroud were both singled in places and have been redoubled in part. Seems to have been a WR thing

Wasn't there a government grant to rationalise track? Although Moreton on the SWML (the actual one to Weymouth) suggests it's not a purely WR thing

 

[Zomboid]

The WR seemed to be more into singling "main lines" than other regions, but there's other examples around such as Uckfield, the East Suffolk, Skegness...

 

[Recessio]

I don't know about this case, but often singling was done when a line needed renewing/resignalling/electrification, to cut down capital costs. One example is the Seaford branch when it was singled by BR in 1975.

While singling made a slight reduction in running/maintenance costs, it was the much larger reduction of capital costs (and the fact you could do it while the line was already closed for renewing/resignalling) that made it appealing.

 

[AndrewE]

I don't know about this case, but often singling was done when a line needed renewing/resignalling/electrification, to cut down capital costs. One example is the Seaford branch when it was singled by BR in 1975.

While singling made a slight reduction in running/maintenance costs, it was the much larger reduction of capital costs (and the fact you could do it while the line was already closed for renewing/resignalling) that made it appealing.

Crewe to Shrewsbury was being prepared for it too in about 2000. Long Welded Rail was laid on the up and down lines on alternate stretches, it was believed that they were going to slew the ends to give a single line of relatively newly-laid rail.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

My recollection is that singling west of Salisbury was the only way to stave off complete closure, which was thought to be a likely outcome of the Beeching review.

Another factor may have been that the line had been transferred from Southern to Western Region in the early 1960s, and (only fifteen years or so after nationalisation) there were senior figures there who still had the traditional GWR's hatred of anything Southern.

The usage of the West of England line at that time was not too much different from the S&D, itself previously a Southern / London Midland line, which the Western Region acquired and quickly closed.

So without the "ill advised Beeching era experiment" there would probably not have been a Salisbury to Exeter line at all today, just a few abandoned earthworks and maybe some cycle tracks.

The line was a victim of Gerry Fiennes WR GM and his hobby horse 'basic railway' concept, completely ignoring the operational difficulties. Ludicrously he even wanted to close Yeovil Jcn - its pasengers would have to make to do with Sherborne.

There was no danger of the line closing - it wasn't in Beeching Mk1 and still had very respectable passenger numbers. Granted it wasn't selected for development in Beeching Mk2 but neither was the Berks & Hants or ludicrously the ECML north of Newcastle. That report was rightly rejected by the government.

 

[Xavi]

The usage of the West of England line at that time was not too much different from the S&D, itself previously a Southern / London Midland line, which the Western Region acquired and quickly closed.

That is not really accurate. Traffic between Devon and London was broadly divided between the Waterloo and Paddington routes until the Western Region assumed control of the former Southern lines. Indeed, the ex-Southern route often generated more intermediate traffic, serving a larger number of towns and communities along its length.

 

[Magdalia]

The singling seemed to be very much an ill advised Beeching era experiment.

It wasn't. West of Salisbury had a 1tp2h service until more than 20 years after Beeching. At the time singling was a sensible decision based on the traffic levels

Seems to have been a WR thing

It wasn't. There are various examples near here. The East Suffolk has already been mentioned, but also Wroxham-Cromer, Cambridge-Newmarket, and Ely-Kings Lynn. All only had a 1tp2h service when the lines were singled.

My knowledge of Salisbury-Exeter mainly comes via a friend who uses the line frequently for local journeys. Last year we played a sort of Top Trumps game about disruption on single lines: they had Salisbury-Exeter, I had Ely-Kings Lynn.

For both, the fundamental issue is the same: the planned service requires the trains to run through the single track sections at line speed, and long temporary speed restrictions throw the timetable out. In both cases those long temporary speed restrictions are a consequence of climate change. Redoubling is a very expensive response that only partially reduces the delays, the more complete solution is to make the infrastructure more resilient so that long temporary speed restrictions are not needed.

 

[yorksrob]

Everywhere is a main line for it's area. Doesn't mean it's a 'main line' in the context of the national network, whatever the intentions of a board of directors 150 years ago.

It's the main route linking swathes of Somerset and Dorset to the outside world, so it's clearly a main line in that respect.

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My recollection is that singling west of Salisbury was the only way to stave off complete closure, which was thought to be a likely outcome of the Beeching review.

Another factor may have been that the line had been transferred from Southern to Western Region in the early 1960s, and (only fifteen years or so after nationalisation) there were senior figures there who still had the traditional GWR's hatred of anything Southern.

The usage of the West of England line at that time was not too much different from the S&D, itself previously a Southern / London Midland line, which the Western Region acquired and quickly closed.

So without the "ill advised Beeching era experiment" there would probably not have been a Salisbury to Exeter line at all today, just a few abandoned earthworks and maybe some cycle tracks.

Frankly the whole Beeching inspired closure debacle was an ill-advised disaster to my mind, however that's probably for another thread.

The Cotswold line and the one to Stroud were both singled in places and have been redoubled in part. Seems to have been a WR thing

Wasn't there a government grant to rationalise track? Although Moreton on the SWML (the actual one to Weymouth) suggests it's not a purely WR thing

Yes and yes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2026 ==

It wasn't. West of Salisbury had a 1tp2h service until more than 20 years after Beeching. At the time singling was a sensible decision based on the traffic levels

Wasn't it in the 1970's barely ten years after singling that they had to put the loop back at Yeovil Junction. The thing doesn't seem to have been planned with resilience in mind.

 

[Krokodil]

Well, if you go back a bit there was the Harecastle Deviation in Staffordshire (1967) and the new Woodhead Tunnel (1954). More recently there was a minor diversion on the Newcastle - Carlisle line due to unstable ground and the ECML has been realigned in several places in Co. Durham (e.g Ferryhill and Reilly Mill).

Go back even further to circa 1906 and a stretch of the Cornwall Railway got a deviation.

 

[marshlinker]

It's the main route linking swathes of Somerset and Dorset to the outside world, so it's clearly a main line in that respect.

Honiton gets 330,000 entries/exits, Axminster 420k. Not really major passenger flows to be honest. Certainly wouldn't have thought it could justify major investment.

 

[zwk500]

It's the main route linking swathes of Somerset and Dorset to the outside world, so it's clearly a main line in that respect.

By this argument the Cumbrian Coast Line, the Cambrian Line and the Heart of Wales lines are all main lines.

 

[Zomboid]

Wasn't it in the 1970's barely ten years after singling that they had to put the loop back at Yeovil Junction. The thing doesn't seem to have been planned with resilience in mind

It's only comparatively recently that it's gone hourly over the full length, and whilst it's not hyper resilient, it does generally work on the existing infrastructure. Given how long it's been since the singling and then later provision of more passing places, it has held up pretty well really.

Given that all trains beyond Salisbury are effectively all stops, operated by the same rolling stock type and there's no freight it shouldn't be too hard to predict passing places and provide accordingly.

The intervention most likely to do some good is probably extending Tisbury loop to the west so that minor delays to an up train will be less likely to affect a down train. Otherwise the question is what service does the line need? Running times in the public timetable suggest that there's already sufficient loops to run half hourly Salisbury to Yeovil, and beyond there it'd need a loop somewhere around Feniton to run half hourly all the way to Exeter.

 

[yorksrob]

Honiton gets 330,000 entries/exits, Axminster 420k. Not really major passenger flows to be honest. Certainly wouldn't have thought it could justify major investment.

It's probably not living up to its potential, given its been shorn of all its feeder routes.

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By this argument the Cumbrian Coast Line, the Cambrian Line and the Heart of Wales lines are all main lines.

Cumbrian coast is certainly in that category, hence why that tunnel needs fixing sharpish.

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It's only comparatively recently that it's gone hourly over the full length, and whilst it's not hyper resilient, it does generally work on the existing infrastructure. Given how long it's been since the singling and then later provision of more passing places, it has held up pretty well really.

Given that all trains beyond Salisbury are effectively all stops, operated by the same rolling stock type and there's no freight it shouldn't be too hard to predict passing places and provide accordingly.

The intervention most likely to do some good is probably extending Tisbury loop to the west so that minor delays to an up train will be less likely to affect a down train. Otherwise the question is what service does the line need? Running times in the public timetable suggest that there's already sufficient loops to run half hourly Salisbury to Yeovil, and beyond there it'd need a loop somewhere around Feniton to run half hourly all the way to Exeter.

An option could be to have additional passing loops to support the current frequency when trains are running more slowly.

 

[Severnia333]

If you double without rebuilding the earthworks, you will just end up with a slightly less bad service, which won't justify the costs of the works. If you rebuild the earthworks when redoubling, you will push your costs up significantly.

The line is in a real bind, because it's used for about 3.5-4m journeys annually (working below), which means it would be extremely damaging to close it, but also that large-scale works will struggle to be justified. However the status quo can clearly not continue as an ever-degrading service will drive traffic off the railway but patching up repeatedly is only going to cost more in the long run.

I think significant re-doubling is off the cards for the moment, but we could see one or two extensions to loops to provide dynamic passing rather than needing to stop for trains.


Interesting usage data shows more entries & exits at Axminster than Honiton.

Spoiler: Usage Data:

Station	Usage (m)	Local town pop (rough, m)	Trips/person of local town
Tisbury	0.1	0.002	50
Gillingham	0.35	0.012	29.17
Templecombe	0.09	0.001	90
Sherborne	0.2	0.01	20
Yeovil Junction	0.22	0.03	7.33 (Expect Yeovil Pen Mill to have more allocation)
Crewkerne	0.18	0.007	25.71
Axminster	0.418	0.005	83.60
Honiton	0.337	0.012	28.08
Feniton	0.055	0.002	2.75
Whimple	0.05	0.002	25
Cranbrook	0.12	0.007	17.14
Pinhoe	0.232	0.01	23.20
Total	2.352	0.118	19.93

[Table using wikipedia data of Usage and population]

To which can be added approximately 0.15m futher journeys to/from Exeter:
View attachment 207426
[Image showing table of Origin-Destination matrix for Exeter Central and Exeter St David's, one-way (ODM assumes even travel each way)]

Biggest surprise is how big a market Southampton is for Exeter... that's a long commute.

 

[zwk500]

It's probably not living up to its potential, given its been shorn of all its feeder routes.

Which routes would be providing meaningful traffic today, if open? Not just closed lines - new alignments available as well.

An option could be to have additional passing loops to support the current frequency when trains are running more slowly.

That is simply never going to be justified in the current political climate.

Biggest surprise is how big a market Southampton is for Exeter... that's a long commute.

8,000 people each way annually suggests it's only a handful of commuters (8,700 people divided by 330 working days equals c.26 people doing it. Although IMO more likely is that it's about 3,000 people a year making a handful of trips, e.g. for a long weekend or to visit a child at uni).

 

[martin butler]

At some point though, the PW will need work to stabilise failing embankments cuttings etc, how much more expensive will it be to rebuild the structures to full double track and to be able to increase the line speed, so that the journey time Exeter to Basingstoke, is compatible with the GW route?

 

[HSTEd]

At some point though, the PW will need work to stabilise failing embankments cuttings etc, how much more expensive will it be to rebuild the structures to full double track and to be able to increase the line speed, so that the journey time Exeter to Basingstoke, is compatible with the GW route?

Probably quite a bit, the line is apparently an hour slower than the Great Western fasts.

You'd probably need a total reconstruction with significant realignment to do that.
Of course, if you could cut an hour of the end to end journey time you probably wouldn't need double tracks because you'd get a big boost in capacity from faster transits of single line sections.

 

[marshlinker]

It's probably not living up to its potential, given its been shorn of all its feeder routes.

It's primary purpose as a main line was to compete for the London- Transatlantic shipping. The passenger traffic collapsed shortly after WW2 and isn't coming back. It's been a backwater ever since no amount of taxpayers billions is going to change that.

 

[Severnia333]

Which routes would be providing meaningful traffic today, if open? Not just closed lines - new alignments available as well.

That is simply never going to be justified in the current political climate.

8,000 people each way annually suggests it's only a handful of commuters (8,700 people divided by 330 working days equals c.26 people doing it. Although IMO more likely is that it's about 3,000 people a year making a handful of trips, e.g. for a long weekend or to visit a child at uni).

Disregard, I read the table wrong. The way you put it is about what I expected.

 

[yorksrob]

Which routes would be providing meaningful traffic today, if open? Not just closed lines - new alignments available as well.

That is simply never going to be justified in the current political climate.

8,000 people each way annually suggests it's only a handful of commuters (8,700 people divided by 330 working days equals c.26 people doing it. Although IMO more likely is that it's about 3,000 people a year making a handful of trips, e.g. for a long weekend or to visit a child at uni).

The S&D from the Bournemouth conurbation, Seaton, Okehampton etc.

The current climate is "current". That might change.

I expect that people said the same about Princes Risborough at the time.

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It's primary purpose as a main line was to compete for the London- Transatlantic shipping. The passenger traffic collapsed shortly after WW2 and isn't coming back. It's been a backwater ever since no amount of taxpayers billions is going to change that.

That was only ever a very small portion of the line's traffic, given it was the main line for the hinterland as well as to the Atlantic coast. The Atlantic coast may not be coming back, but the hinterland is still there and full of potential passengers.

 

[zwk500]

The S&D from the Bournemouth conurbation, Seaton, Okehampton etc.

Bournemouth to where? If you're from Yeovil or Salisbury are you really changing at Templecombe or are you driving?
Seaton gets somewhere above 100k visitors a year, going by the tramway and wetlands numbers. How much of that market are you capturing with a branch line?
Okehampton is connected to the network since 2021. It contributed 802 total outward journeys to Dorset and Wiltshire in the 24/25 ODM matrix.

I'd have though Lyme Regis is the biggest 'feeder' market, with c.400,000 tourist visits. However, even that is tempered by 80% of them being from within 75 miles of the town and 90% of them being day trippers (who will naturally want to maximise their time in the town, not be beholden to rail schedules).
Yes, with good marketing, sensible fares, and a good timetable you can grow the market for rail travel. But there's got to be a base to grow from.

 

[yorksrob]

Bournemouth to where? If you're from Yeovil or Salisbury are you really changing at Templecombe or are you driving?
Seaton gets somewhere above 100k visitors a year, going by the tramway and wetlands numbers. How much of that market are you capturing with a branch line?
Okehampton is connected to the network since 2021. It contributed 802 total outward journeys to Dorset and Wiltshire in the 24/25 ODM matrix.

I'd have though Lyme Regis is the biggest 'feeder' market, with c.400,000 tourist visits. However, even that is tempered by 80% of them being from within 75 miles of the town and 90% of them being day trippers (who will naturally want to maximise their time in the town, not be beholden to rail schedules).
Yes, with good marketing, sensible fares, and a good timetable you can grow the market for rail travel. But there's got to be a base to grow from.

People from the Bournemouth conurbation would change at Templecombe to go west. Not sure where Salisbury passengers come into it as they already have direct trains west.

As for Lyme Regis, rail schedules are rail schedules. The majority of them to local tourist areas where they exist, are ideally suited to day trips to the seaside (Hastings, Brighton, Folkestone, Ramsgate etc).

You get abominations like the rail service to Whitby which seems designed to make trips to the seaside impossible, but these are quite rare.

 

[zwk500]

People from the Bournemouth conurbation would change at Templecombe to go west. Not sure where Salisbury passengers come into it as they already have direct trains west.

The sum total of people from station in the BCP area to stations in the South-West of England, excluding those north of Westbury, on the Heart of Wessex Line or on the SWML itself, is currently 12,521 Annually (outward journeys only).
What level of growth in that market are you expecting from the S&D being reopened, because an extra 50 trips a day is not going to suddenly transform the economics of the line.

As for Lyme Regis, rail schedules are rail schedules. The majority of them to local tourist areas where they exist, are ideally suited to day trips to the seaside (Hastings, Brighton, Folkestone, Ramsgate etc).

You've named 4 London Commuter towns, so receive a service reflecting that travel pattern. They're also all 1-1.5hrs away from the single largest market in the country, not 2.5-3hrs away.

To be clear - I'm sure *some* would use the service were it there. I'm contending that *not enough* would use it to suddenly transform the WoE line into a 'main line' in a national context.

 

[yorksrob]

The sum total of people from station in the BCP area to stations in the South-West of England, excluding those north of Westbury, on the Heart of Wessex Line or on the SWML itself, is currently 12,521 Annually (outward journeys only).
What level of growth in that market are you expecting from the S&D being reopened, because an extra 50 trips a day is not going to suddenly transform the economics of the line.

You've named 4 London Commuter towns, so receive a service reflecting that travel pattern. They're also all 1-1.5hrs away from the single largest market in the country, not 2.5-3hrs away.

To be clear - I'm sure *some* would use the service were it there. I'm contending that *not enough* would use it to suddenly transform the WoE line into a 'main line' in a national context.

Ultimately the Bournemouth conurbation doesn't have a direct route to the West country, so taking current figures as an indication of what might have been is meaningless.

This is a bit of a side argument as I don't expect the S&D to be reopened (sadly).

That aside, there are plenty of people living nearer the route who could be attracted to a more reliable, frequent service.

Commuters to the four towns I've mentioned aren't the point. The point is that they have decent day long services that attract leisure passengers.

The WOE main line is already a main line. Sorting out some of the issues would make it a more important better used one.

Over the past thirty years, I've experienced the route as a comfortable, reliable service. It would be a crying shame if it were allowed to deteriorate due to a combination of ailing rolling stock and climate change.

 

[martin butler]

Ultimately the Bournemouth conurbation doesn't have a direct route to the West country, so taking current figures as an indication of what might have been is meaningless.

This is a bit of a side argument as I don't expect the S&D to be reopened (sadly).

That aside, there are plenty of people living nearer the route who could be attracted to a more reliable, frequent service.

Commuters to the four towns I've mentioned aren't the point. The point is that they have decent day long services that attract leisure passengers.

The WOE main line is already a main line. Sorting out some of the issues would make it a more important better used one.

Over the past thirty years, I've experienced the route as a comfortable, reliable service. It would be a crying shame if it were allowed to deteriorate due to a combination of ailing rolling stock and climate change.

Ideally any upgrading should also include O/H electrification from reading to Basingstoke, and Basingstoke to Exeter, and further electrification to link Exeter with Bristol so both maIn routes to Exeter can be operated by 800's and duel voltage EMU's possibly using an adaption of the 800 class that can run on 3rd rail as well as overhead, to operate Waterloo to Exeter, some GW services could run via Basingstoke and terminate at Bristol TM, or continue on to Paddington, some SWR services could extend to Bristol, before returning

 

[marshlinker]

That was only ever a very small portion of the line's traffic, given it was the main line for the hinterland as well as to the Atlantic coast. The Atlantic coast may not be coming back, but the hinterland is still there and full of potential passengers.

I think you need to check your history. The "West of England" Line was built by the L&SWR to compete with the GWRs services to Exeter & Plymouth. The L&SWR eventually had a double track main line from Waterloo through to Devonport (Plymouth) Kings Rd station principally for the maritime traffic. The line also served several single track branches through to small resorts on the South Devon Coast and the Atlantic coast. This included several once a day portion operated (some only seasonal) through services.
After World War Two the maritme traffic from Plymouth Vanished because of the introduction of commercial aviation and a huge reduction in the naval traffic.
This didnt leave enough traffic to justify 2 railways beyond Exeter and the main line was closed completely beyond Lyford along with most of the Atlantic Coast and South Devon branches. leaving what was essential a branch line service beyond Wilton. In the 1950s and 60s stations like Templecombe typically only had 3 or 4 down trains a day plus milk and newspaper trains.