Bus stops on country roads that have no visible markings that they exist

[Dwarfer1979]

As others have said there are lots of these unmarked stops, either identified as long standing custom and practice stops or slightly more arbitrary virtual stops needed to make various information systems work. Before the invention of the NAPTAN bus stop database operators were quite happy to just go out and attach a flag to a convenient pole (road signs or street lights as you haven't been allowed to use telephone poles for decades due to safety concerns of line maintenance staff falling and hitting them) but in rural areas there often wasn't anything available to attach one to but with the need to keep records accurate this has become less common. If the council is to create a physical stop there has to be a full health & safety review and public consultation, significant costs and time is involved before you can actually erect a stop and at certain locations it is quite possible of objections (such as by the police for road safety matters) so leaving as is often is the best option.

For my employer, to give the flexibility to meet customer needs, almost all services have the wording that "in rural areas & roads with no marked bus stops Hail & Ride will be in operation" though in the last year the Licensing Office have begun tightening up a bit and wanting to clarify which sections this particularly applies to so I now sometimes have to go through and actually check if there are physical stops at locations or not. Our advise to customers when they contact us to check things like this is to stand in a location that has a clear line of site for the oncoming bus so the driver can see you in plenty of time to slow down (and also for following vehicles to see a stationary bus with plenty of warning) and to clearly indicate for the driver with plenty of notice. Our customer services team do occasionally have people contact us to clarify these type of locations, often like you visitors or first time users, and when that happens we will look at the point they want to board on Google Streetview to assess those site lines and advise the customer of whether the requested point is the best one or if there is a better location nearby to wait (often they will ask the advise of myself as the scheduler, and as a former holder of a bus license, or another colleague as an ex-bus driver) and we rarely have issues around buses stopping in these circumstances (and I can't remember having a complaint of such if advise has been sought before hand).

In these type of circumstances I would certainly suggest getting contacting the relevant operator of the service and getting confirmation and advice from them of the best steps for their service but these things are longstanding (dating back to the origins of the bus) so drivers are used to dealing with it as a base concept.

 

[TheManOnThe172]

Does the stops database include a What3Words reference (or other fine-grained location) for custom stops?

If thinking of catching a bus at an unfamiliar spot without a physical sign, i would feel much more confident if holding a phone with What3Words showing that i was in the same 3m-square area as the published location of the stop.

 

[Man of Kent]

Does the stops database include a What3Words reference (or other fine-grained location) for custom stops?

If thinking of catching a bus at an unfamiliar spot without a physical sign, i would feel much more confident if holding a phone with What3Words showing that i was in the same 3m-square area as the published location of the stop.

It's both an OS grid reference, plus latitude and longitude. Accuracy varies from place to place...

 

[PeterC]

It's both an OS grid reference, plus latitude and longitude. Accuracy varies from place to place...

For reasons irrelevant to this thread I once had to check some physical stops on StreetView and found that the mapped locations could be approximate. I don't know if that was down to Google or the underlying data

 

[JKP]

Does the stops database include a What3Words reference (or other fine-grained location) for custom stops?

If thinking of catching a bus at an unfamiliar spot without a physical sign, i would feel much more confident if holding a phone with What3Words showing that i was in the same 3m-square area as the published location of the stop.

The database was set up over 20 years ago, so no. I am unfamiliar with What3Words myself. I would suggest that it is unlikely that this reference will be added without additional funding being found.

 

[Ballyheigue]

Does the stops database include a What3Words reference (or other fine-grained location) for custom stops?

If thinking of catching a bus at an unfamiliar spot without a physical sign, i would feel much more confident if holding a phone with What3Words showing that i was in the same 3m-square area as the published location of the stop.

I can tell you first hand, What 3 Words doesn't work in all locations. During an emergency situation on Eccup Moor Road, we located the What 3 Words reference for where we were, but the 999 operator couldn't find us using the reference. We went a bit further down the road, got another 3 word reference, tried to use that and they still couldn't locate us! We ended up turning the Yorkshire Water vehicle into an ambulance lol.

 

[GoneSouth]

Not the norm but certainly the case in some locations. The A40 between Witney and Cheltenham doesn't have signs at every stop.

Ah yes I discovered this, had to wave very vociferously at the driver to grab his attention when he was driving at 40 (hmmm 50) mph and didn’t notice a sizeable group of walkers waiting to board. He overshot where we were standing (who knows if this was the correct spot or not) by a good 30m and just said sorry, I don’t usually pick people up there. Maybe not, but it’s part of the route and timetable and should be observed better!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jul 2026 ==

The database was set up over 20 years ago, so no. I am unfamiliar with What3Words myself. I would suggest that it is unlikely that this reference will be added without additional funding being found.

Talking of funding, I’ve been on a couple hikes around South and east Gloucestershire recently and noticed they have spent a lot of money on rural on demand buses. These don’t go into the towns as there are already provision for commercial services but what is odd is that they use these ghost bus stops which are in the database of bus stops but don’t Have any markings whatsoever. Surely the funding can extend to a few bus stop signs to help people know where to use the buses. It makes perfect sense that when you see a bus stops you might look into using it, if you don’t know it’s there why would you even bother looking. Slight oversight I think.

 

[marshlinker]

when I was a kid in Somerset, virtually none of the village bus stops had signs. Just a few in the bigger towns
I read somewhere it was down to the county council refusing to pay for what it thought was Southern/Western Nationals responsibility - despite the number of independents.

Here in Rural Kent we've only got bus stops in the smaller villages in the last 10 years, outside of that on country roads the bus will stop anywhere its safe to do so.
We've recently got hand me down buses with PIS. Its was obviously a bit of a dilemma what to do for the programmer but theyve basically been programmed with the name of every farm and prominent building. I think the drivers get fed up with them and turn them off.
Londoners (DFLs) are obviously completely unnerved by this culture especially after the shock of discovering the bus only goes every 2 hours. i frequently get asked which is the stop for the National trust property at Smallhythe Place and having asked the driver on their behalf they are surprised to be dropped at the gate by the front door.

 

[GoneSouth]

We're talking about a problem that doesn't actually exist.

Where are the complaints about passengers not being able to access buses? Before I moved, I lived in the sticks and there was no bus stop flag or anything but stick your hand out and the bus would stop. That's what happens. On the busier roads in the area, there are actual stops but that's because the traffic levels are such that you don't want buses stopping in ad-hoc locations but in other areas, it's not needed and never has been.

The reality is that there are thousands of unofficial stops around the UK. For the councils to go round sticking a sign up (and often there isn't a place to) would be a very expensive task and to what end?

The vast, vast majority are barely used, and only then by local residents, and it's an expensive solution to a problem that no one is talking about!

Or, maybe some of them are barely used because it’s not obvious to people that they even exist. This has become a little easier with technology, but you still run the risk of drivers not stopping on routes which are at best infrequent.

I just checked the route I used and was almost missed by the driver, and found it’s actually an hourly plus a two hourly service all day, so 3 buses in each direction every 2 hours. That level of service definitely needs formalising and publicising.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jul 2026 ==

I think the drivers get fed up with them and turn them off.

Does the constitute a breach of accessibility legislation? If there’s equipment failure that’s a different matter, but to actively disable fully functioning feature that is specified in law because it annoys you is just completely unacceptable.

 

[Leeds1970]

large parts of rural north wales just has BWS painted on the road and nothing else so unless you knew that was the welsh for bus you wouldnt have a clue

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Surely the funding can extend to a few bus stop signs to help people know where to use the buses. It makes perfect sense that when you see a bus stops you might look into using it, if you don’t know it’s there why would you even bother looking. Slight oversight I think.

That funding of a few bus stop signs was explained by @Dwarfer1979 and it's not as simply as you think. Where it's been "custom and practice" to simply have a sign, then that almost has grandfather rights but as Dwarfer says about new locations...

If the council is to create a physical stop there has to be a full health & safety review and public consultation, significant costs and time is involved before you can actually erect a stop and at certain locations it is quite possible of objections (such as by the police for road safety matters) so leaving as is often is the best option.

So if you decide to create a bus stop in the middle of nowhere, it's not the case of popping up a sign. Here's an example not far from where I used to live near Bath...


It's a timing point on a rural tendered service that runs every two hours. If you put a pole up, then you'll have to have a passenger refuge and arguably, do that and you'll need a kerb too. And where... on the junction? There's no pavement so do you create some of that too? That's a lot of time and money for a stop that serves a few cottages. Annual passenger numbers will be single figures, and I doubt that's because there's no physical infrastructure. As it is, despite being in a National Speed Limit area, it has reasonable sight lines so you'll be able to wave down the Solo in time.

Sometimes, the juice just isn't worth the squeeze.

 

[jon0844]

I suppose you could just paint a bus stop sign/bay in the road. That could work quite well actually. Even if the bus doesn't stop exactly in it.

 

[GoneSouth]

That funding of a few bus stop signs was explained by @Dwarfer1979 and it's not as simply as you think. Where it's been "custom and practice" to simply have a sign, then that almost has grandfather rights but as Dwarfer says about new locations...


So if you decide to create a bus stop in the middle of nowhere, it's not the case of popping up a sign. Here's an example not far from where I used to live near Bath...

View attachment 207213
It's a timing point on a rural tendered service that runs every two hours. If you put a pole up, then you'll have to have a passenger refuge and arguably, do that and you'll need a kerb too. And where... on the junction? There's no pavement so do you create some of that too? That's a lot of time and money for a stop that serves a few cottages. Annual passenger numbers will be single figures, and I doubt that's because there's no physical infrastructure. As it is, despite being in a National Speed Limit area, it has reasonable sight lines so you'll be able to wave down the Solo in time.

Sometimes, the juice just isn't worth the squeeze.

I completely get the economics of it all, but when a district council is spending millions on rural bus services, making them visible and accessible might pay off in the long term.”, especially if services are unexpectedly frequent.

Oddly, my experience wasn’t a Solo but was flagging down an hourly double decker where the driver didn’t seem to have a clue there was a stop there and sailed by before realising the 8 or 9 people wanted to board his bus. I would have been livid if he didn’t stop, it was the last bus of the day!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I suppose you could just paint a bus stop sign/bay in the road. That could work quite well actually. Even if the bus doesn't stop exactly in it.

Yes, but doing so means that the local authority is making that change by formalising a previous informal arrangement and thereby requiring all the things that @Dwarfer1979 mentioned. It isn't as easy as putting up a sign or painting something on the road.

I completely get the economics of it all, but when a district council is spending millions on rural bus services, making them visible and accessible might pay off in the long term.”, especially if services are unexpectedly frequent.

The economics simply won't stack up and "pay off in the long term" for many of these. The example I showed is TWO stops (i.e. both directions) and the thousands it would cost simply wouldn't meet any form of cost benefit calculation.

Oddly, my experience wasn’t a Solo but was flagging down an hourly double decker where the driver didn’t seem to have a clue there was a stop there and sailed by before realising the 8 or 9 people wanted to board his bus. I would have been livid if he didn’t stop, it was the last bus of the day!

That example sounds like it would benefit from infrastructure if there are regular walkers e.g. it's close to a particular attraction or an entry point onto a notable national path like the Cotswold Way. However, for most of these, the cost benefit for local authorities isn't worth it.

 

[jon0844]

I get why there may not be bus stops, given legislation that would mean more than just erecting a pole and flag - but it's quite ridiculous that it's defended, rather than transport operators, passenger groups and local authorities trying to work to find a sensible solution.

I am in two minds whether to chance the idea of hailing a bus in the middle of nowhere on a fast road, and I am at least aware now of how things work. I can't see a lot of people - even if I pointed them to this thread - would ever consider taking a bus and it would just further cement their prejudiced view that buses are a waste of time. I would find it rather hard to say 'yeah, but....'.

I mean, we already have the situation where buses can be cancelled and you won't know because apps (and bus stop signs) can't show cancelled. Is the bus cancelled, is it late, did it pass and you didn't notice? You're sure you paid attention the whole time, but what if you didn't? What do you do now? Wait for the bus in case it IS running and didn't come yet, or wait two hours for the next one?

And I haven't even considered if the weather is less than stellar, and you're in the cold and wet for two hours.

 

[James H]

mean, we already have the situation where buses can be cancelled and you won't know because apps (and bus stop signs) can't show cancelled

The government launched a consultation this week on a range of measures, including making provision for cancellations to be reported in the mandated open data.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I get why there may not be bus stops, given legislation that would mean more than just erecting a pole and flag - but it's quite ridiculous that it's defended, rather than transport operators, passenger groups and local authorities trying to work to find a sensible solution.

I am in two minds whether to chance the idea of hailing a bus in the middle of nowhere on a fast road, and I am at least aware now of how things work. I can't see a lot of people - even if I pointed them to this thread - would ever consider taking a bus and it would just further cement their prejudiced view that buses are a waste of time. I would find it rather hard to say 'yeah, but....'.

I mean, we already have the situation where buses can be cancelled and you won't know because apps (and bus stop signs) can't show cancelled. Is the bus cancelled, is it late, did it pass and you didn't notice? You're sure you paid attention the whole time, but what if you didn't? What do you do now? Wait for the bus in case it IS running and didn't come yet, or wait two hours for the next one?

And I haven't even considered if the weather is less than stellar, and you're in the cold and wet for two hours.

I'm quite surprised (I don't know how old you are but you've been on this site for 17 years so that indicates a certain age) that this has been some sort of revelation to you. If it has taken this long for you, a committed and passionate and regular public transport user, to be aware of this apparent issue... is it something that is really being experienced on a widespread basis?

My childhood (granted when we had 3/4 telly channels) was in a highly rural area of Northern England, with my father and his colleagues operating bus services in just these areas. Basically, the rule of thumb is

• Don't stand in a location that is going to be hazardous for a large vehicle to stop
• Look out for your bus
• Clearly signal to the driver in good time and keep waving your arm so he can see you - at night, use your phone/torch etc to attract attention

Never seen anyone do this and the bus not stop, unless it was a limited stop/express and simply didn't stop there. Often, buses go past by 50 or 100 metres as the person hasn't signalled early enough, the driver hasn't been attentive (eeek) or they've been stood in a place that isn't safe to stop.

Going from your original post, I think you're worrying and anxious about something that hasn't happened and, in truth, doesn't happen.

 

[GoneSouth]

The government launched a consultation this week on a range of measures, including making provision for cancellations to be reported in the mandated open data.

Oh yes this would be a great benefit. Currently the most reliable way to find out if my local buses are cancelled is to use Twitter, where they might if they can be bothered. post a message. On the other hand if it’s evening or weekend, they won’t!

Ridiculous! I shouldn’t have to create an account with a company owned by a megalomaniac monster to find out if the 1230 to Asda is running.

 

[MotCO]

In my youth rural buses would pick up / set down anywhere safe outside towns e.g. right outside your house. Is that still the case?

I travelled on a bus in Surrey, which dropped a passenger off outside her house, by stopping on the wrong side of the road!

 

[jon0844]

I'm quite surprised (I don't know how old you are but you've been on this site for 17 years so that indicates a certain age) that this has been some sort of revelation to you. If it has taken this long for you, a committed and passionate and regular public transport user, to be aware of this apparent issue... is it something that is really being experienced on a widespread basis?

My childhood (granted when we had 3/4 telly channels) was in a highly rural area of Northern England, with my father and his colleagues operating bus services in just these areas. Basically, the rule of thumb is

• Don't stand in a location that is going to be hazardous for a large vehicle to stop
• Look out for your bus
• Clearly signal to the driver in good time and keep waving your arm so he can see you - at night, use your phone/torch etc to attract attention

Never seen anyone do this and the bus not stop, unless it was a limited stop/express and simply didn't stop there. Often, buses go past by 50 or 100 metres as the person hasn't signalled early enough, the driver hasn't been attentive (eeek) or they've been stood in a place that isn't safe to stop.

Going from your original post, I think you're worrying and anxious about something that hasn't happened and, in truth, doesn't happen.

I genuinely didn't know this was a thing and bet most people living in a town or city have no clue.

The only thing I've ever noticed is a local(ish) bus stop that has a pole/sign on one side of the road only and says 'Both sides of the road'. Before I saw the text on the other side, I wrote to the council and they never responded, as I wondered why a bus stop outside a University hall for events, conferences, parties etc had no visible bus stop, no paved area to stand, no timetable and no access for wheelchairs (it's slightly banked and with loads of grass).

You can see it here, and it looks like there might be two people waiting at the ghost stop. If you go back in time, it shows the text on the opposite stop in 2011 but in 2008 it just says 'Temporary sign'.

I am prepared to test your theory out, but think this is ridiculous and if it's so widespread then no wonder rural buses struggle. Clearly me going once or twice a month for a walk and using a bus isn't going to be the difference between a bus route running or being axed, but I am pretty sure I am not the only one.

I can use apps to see where the stop is supposed to be. I can use bustimes.org to see what buses are meant to run, and hopefully track them, but I am not going to feel comfortable - so, yes, I would be anxious especially if there's a long gap in service.

I have full confidence in using trains anywhere, but I spent a lot of my life never considering buses outside of my home county, or London. From confusing ticket prices, not knowing where exactly you needed to go, not knowing when on the bus where your stop was (and asking the driver to shout at you didn't always work) and the issue of late or cancelled buses, put me off. I was one of the many who disregarded buses as a viable method of transport outside of my 'comfort zone'.

We've come a LONG way but still don't seem to have got everything sorted, and all this time I had no clue about ghost stops.

Am I supposed to tell anyone else to give it a go? They'd drive, get a cab, or not go there at all if I explained how you have these secret stops and you can look online to see what colour the bus is, what type it is, where it is (maybe, but remember the tracking has a delay so take that into account) and then make sure you clearly signal the driver and hope s/he stops.

The government launched a consultation this week on a range of measures, including making provision for cancellations to be reported in the mandated open data.

This is perhaps one of the best bits of news ever when it comes to buses! Once you know what is, and isn't, running you can make more educated decisions on what to do if you're left hanging around.

I get the odd Tweet/X post about bus cancellations but a lot of the time they're posted a long time after the bus should have run, so it's really not that relevant at that point. I've had drivers tell me that they can have a large number of uncovered runs that are known about at the start of the day.

While I accept their controllers will be trying to juggle things around and maybe call in favours from drivers off that day, I do think they make even railway operators look organised by comparison!!

 

[GoneSouth]

The preferred solution for me is to use non bus stops that are near pubs, then when the driver ignores you flapping your arms like a demented goose, you have somewhere warm to reconsider your life choices, make a new plan and seriously consider buying a car.

 

[jon0844]

The preferred solution for me is to use non bus stops that are near pubs, then when the driver ignores you flapping your arms like a demented goose, you have somewhere warm to reconsider your life choices, make a new plan and seriously consider buying a car.

Sadly I think that's the sensible option for many as public transport shouldn't be some weird sort of gambling exercise.

I'm not entirely put off, and think I might start by boarding the bus first and then attempting to get off at an invisible stop. At worst I get overcarried a bit.

Then if that works, I might be brave enough to try being picked up...

 

[GoneSouth]

The point above from @jon0844 about wheelchairs is an interesting one. Rural buses are presumably subject to the same accessibility legislation as urban buses, but, it seems making the vehicles accessible doesn’t also include making the stops accessible.

Seems a bit contradictory to me … yes, I know this stuff is expensive!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jul 2026 ==

Sadly I think that's the sensible option for many as public transport shouldn't be some weird sort of gambling exercise.

I'm not entirely put off, and think I might start by boarding the bus first and then attempting to get off at an invisible stop. At worst I get overcarried a bit.

Then if that works, I might be brave enough to try being picked up...

I’ve boarded buses in this type of scenario several times and every time the driver has overrun the ‘stop’ despite me flapping around. The important thing is, the bus did stop!

 

[MotCO]

any driver who is sufficiently inattentive as to fail to see someone at the side of the road with their armour hailing a bus deserves to be relieved of their job

Any driver spotting a suit of armour hailing a bus would probably be in shock!

 

[jon0844]

The point above from @jon0844 about wheelchairs is an interesting one. Rural buses are presumably subject to the same accessibility legislation as urban buses, but, it seems making the vehicles accessible doesn’t also include making the stops accessible.

I think it's fair to say that few wheelchair users are going to board or alight on a country road, but I would also like to know what the legislation says because if someone did want to do so, they probably (almost certainly) couldn't.

 

[GoneSouth]

I think it's fair to say that few wheelchair users are going to board or alight on a country road, but I would also like to know what the legislation says because if someone did want to do so, they probably (almost certainly) couldn't.

Yes I’m sure it’s rare enough that there’s an exemption in the legislation somewhere. The reason the local authorities don’t want to ‘adopt’ these informal calling points as ‘real’ bus stops is I suspect because the legislation enforces certain very expensive requirements for all ‘new’ public transport infrastructure. The opportunity has probably gone to make these look like actual bus stops. I maybe wrong about all of this, just speculating.

 

[Man of Kent]

The only thing I've ever noticed is a local(ish) bus stop that has a pole/sign on one side of the road only and says 'Both sides of the road'. Before I saw the text on the other side, I wrote to the council and they never responded, as I wondered why a bus stop outside a University hall for events, conferences, parties etc had no visible bus stop, no paved area to stand, no timetable and no access for wheelchairs (it's slightly banked and with loads of grass).

You can see it here, and it looks like there might be two people waiting at the ghost stop. If you go back in time, it shows the text on the opposite stop in 2011 but in 2008 it just says 'Temporary sign'.

I think in this particular example that the pavement side is not public highway, but under the control of Hatfield Business Park. Herts CC thus has no rights to put in any bus infrastructure without the permission of the landowner i.e. the Business Park.

I know of an urban example where we unable to erect a pole or shelter, because of cellars extending under the pavement.

 

[jon0844]

I think in this particular example that the pavement side is not public highway, but under the control of Hatfield Business Park. Herts CC thus has no rights to put in any bus infrastructure without the permission of the landowner i.e. the Business Park.

I know of an urban example where we unable to erect a pole or shelter, because of cellars extending under the pavement.

That's quite likely.

Only some of the roads appear to have been adopted by the council on the business park (which, sadly, means the road surfacing is now awful because when the business park maintained the roads they resurfaced quite regularly).

The street lights have also been upgraded as per the rest of the county roads, but the traffic lights - despite HCC markings - don't get maintained and lots of bulbs are out on one crossing and have been for years. They get reported and nothing happens like HCC has no record of the crossing!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I am prepared to test your theory out, but think this is ridiculous and if it's so widespread then no wonder rural buses struggle. Clearly me going once or twice a month for a walk and using a bus isn't going to be the difference between a bus route running or being axed, but I am pretty sure I am not the only one.

It is not a theory.



The reason why rural buses struggle is... not many regular passengers live out there! It has little or nothing to do with the lack of a formal bus stop.

The only thing I've ever noticed is a local(ish) bus stop that has a pole/sign on one side of the road only and says 'Both sides of the road'. Before I saw the text on the other side, I wrote to the council and they never responded, as I wondered why a bus stop outside a University hall for events, conferences, parties etc had no visible bus stop, no paved area to stand, no timetable and no access for wheelchairs (it's slightly banked and with loads of grass).

Those signs marked "Both Sides of the Road" have been common since the 1970s. It's usually where there isn't an easy place to put a sign opposite.

I can use apps to see where the stop is supposed to be. I can use bustimes.org to see what buses are meant to run, and hopefully track them, but I am not going to feel comfortable - so, yes, I would be anxious especially if there's a long gap in service.

I have full confidence in using trains anywhere, but I spent a lot of my life never considering buses outside of my home county, or London. From confusing ticket prices, not knowing where exactly you needed to go, not knowing when on the bus where your stop was (and asking the driver to shout at you didn't always work) and the issue of late or cancelled buses, put me off. I was one of the many who disregarded buses as a viable method of transport outside of my 'comfort zone'.

You seem anxious? Trains are very regimented, and obviously you're fine with your local area and into London.

Let me assure you that if you are in a safe place in a rural area and you signal clearly (as you might in a town anyway) then drivers will stop. You don't have flail like a goose, strip naked, light a bonfire or anything else.

Drivers are not nasty people by and large - they won't just drive past you.

Yes I’m sure it’s rare enough that there’s an exemption in the legislation somewhere. The reason the local authorities don’t want to ‘adopt’ these informal calling points as ‘real’ bus stops is I suspect because the legislation enforces certain very expensive requirements for all ‘new’ public transport infrastructure. The opportunity has probably gone to make these look like actual bus stops. I maybe wrong about all of this, just speculating.

That is exactly what @Dwarfer1979 was saying as have I. Once you start formalising every road end and informal stop in the sticks, you have to adhere to all sorts of compliance requirements and that costs far more than the benefit ever would.

Put it this way... an extreme example but one that I know. The bus service in Swaledale from Richmond to Keld. Mainly locals use it but you do get some tourists in the summer. Perhaps the odd walker. It is 23 miles from one end to the other. Bus leaves Richmond via Holly Hill and via Hudswell (no marked stop - both places it's the pub), Downholme (timing point but nothing) and whilst many villages do have just a flag (and a shelter if they're lucky) Healaugh doesn't and neither does Muker which doesn't even though it's where the Pennine Way crosses the main road.

So to put in a bus stop flag, a refuge, a kerb - how much? I don't know but let's suggest it's £3k each. I reckon up Swaledale with all the villages and potential stops, there's probably at least £40k to solve a "problem" that hasn't been a problem until now. That's the same as providing market day services on the back roads between Thirsk and Ripon (two rural routes) for a year. Explains why it's not a priority for councils.

Any driver spotting a suit of armour hailing a bus would probably be in shock!

Except on a Knight bus.... I get me cloak

 

[Dai Corner]

A few years ago dozens if not hundreds of virtual bus stops were created for the 'Fflecsi' DRT trial here in Newport. I'm pretty sure no public consultation, risk assessments or any of the other prerequisites mentioned above took place.i don't think they were on NAPTAN or anywhere except the booking app.

Do different rules apply to virtual and 'proper' stops?