Cambridge South new station opening

[takno]

@takno - potentially one for the update list?

Your wish is my command. I've fixed the junction and moved the station slightly so that the map better matches with the speed limits.

The station should now be searchable (might need to refresh the browser a couple of times). The old version of the site should have it appearing in schedules from probably tomorrow - they're already there in the new version of the site.

 

[Chris125]

There are so many poles on those platforms it's insane, surely it must be possible to consolidate them at least a little and reduce the clutter?

 

[jon0844]

Good to see lots of provision for litter to keep it all neat and tidy (I don't think I have seen quite so many litter bags at a station before).

You'll be seeing lots more bins at most stations as they all have to now have different bags for recycling, general, food waste etc.

I am not sure anyone will take any notice, but if you look carefully at the bins you'll see that they're different colours. I don't know if they had signs to explain them at Cambridge South though. There are at GTR stations and they even include photos of what can go in which bin.

I assume this is a DfT thing as part of a requirement to recycle, but wouldn't be surprised if all the bin bags aren't still thrown in the same Biffa bin!

 

[Hadders]

I was in the area yesterday so popped in to take a look. Observations:

- The station was busy considering it has only been open for 4 days. Very encouraging
- The station is going to be freezing in winter for staff. The external walls to the station building are effectively open
- There are no indoor waiting areas for passengers, so inevitable they will wait on the bridge
- Seems to be an over provision of TVMs - 4 on the CBC side with 2 on Hobson's Park side
- Surprising lack of retail provision - there is a small cafe type unit (currently empty) on the park side but only a coffee cart of the CBC side. I'm surprised provision hasn't been made for a small Tesco Express/Sainsbury's Local type store - see for example St Albans for what's possible

 

[jon0844]

I was in the area yesterday so popped in to take a look. Observations:

- The station was busy considering it has only been open for 4 days. Very encouraging
- The station is going to be freezing in winter for staff. The external walls to the station building are effectively open
- There are no indoor waiting areas for passengers, so inevitable they will wait on the bridge
- Seems to be an over provision of TVMs - 4 on the CBC side with 2 on Hobson's Park side
- Surprising lack of retail provision - there is a small cafe type unit (currently empty) on the park side but only a coffee cart of the CBC side. I'm surprised provision hasn't been made for a small Tesco Express/Sainsbury's Local type store - see for example St Albans for what's possible

Yes, retail units are very valuable for a station these days so I would have expected units to have been built for a coffee shop and some sort of local store.

There isn't much seating either, although there's lots of room to add more.

 

[RUK]

I'm surprised provision hasn't been made for a small Tesco Express/Sainsbury's Local type store - see for example St Albans for what's possible

I don’t know anything about competition, and this might not apply because the station is Network Rail and not on the Biomedical Campus itself, but there’s already a M&S Food in the food court in the main hospital building, as well as a couple of other small convenience stores, one also in the food court, one in the Outpatients’ department.

I guess they’re all managed by whoever the food court is contracted out to. Though the original Cambridge station has a M&S Food inside the station itself, and a Sainsbury’s Local very close by, just opposite it. I suppose something at Cambridge South might be more convenient for people from Trumpington way, but they have a Waitrose there.

 

[Hadders]

I don’t know anything about competition, and this might not apply because the station is Network Rail and not on the Biomedical Campus itself, but there’s already a M&S Food in the food court in the main hospital building, as well as a couple of other small convenience stores, one also in the food court, one in the Outpatients’ department. I guess they’re all managed by whoever the food court is contracted out to. Though the original Cambridge station has a M&S Food inside the station itself, and a Sainsbury’s Local very close by, just opposite it. I suppose something at Cambridge South might be more convenient for people from Trumpington way, but they have a Waitrose there.

The catchment area of a convenience store is very small, especially when there's high footfall like at a railway station. In addition to the M&S and Sainsbury's Local at Cambridge there's now a Tesco Express opposite the station and a Co-op not far away.

Just a bit surprised that with the large passenger footfall, no provision appears to have been made for retail at Cambridge South.

 

[Magdalia]

Surprising lack of retail provision - there is a small cafe type unit (currently empty) on the park side but only a coffee cart of the CBC side. I'm surprised provision hasn't been made for a small Tesco Express/Sainsbury's Local type store

Royal Papworth hospital has a cafe. There is a Sainsburys Local in Hobsons Square not far from the far side of the park.

 

[MikeWM]

- The station was busy considering it has only been open for 4 days. Very encouraging

Considerably busier than Cambridge North was after 4 days (or 4 months)! And Cambridge North quickly became a huge success despite (still) being in the middle of nowhere with poor onwards travel links. So Cambridge South looks destined to be a huge success.

- The station is going to be freezing in winter for staff. The external walls to the station building are effectively open

Yes, this does seem an odd choice. Cambridge North gets far too warm in the summer (too much glass) but this seems to be going to the other extreme.

- There are no indoor waiting areas for passengers, so inevitable they will wait on the bridge

I hadn't thought of that, but yes, an odd omission. Cambridge North at least has a (small) waiting room on each platform, which is very welcome in the colder months.

- Seems to be an over provision of TVMs - 4 on the CBC side with 2 on Hobson's Park side

Better too many than too few, especially with no ticket office - and it isn't trivial to get from one side of the station to the other without passing through the station itself. 1 TVM on each side were being used when I visited on Tuesday evening.

- Surprising lack of retail provision - there is a small cafe type unit (currently empty) on the park side but only a coffee cart of the CBC side. I'm surprised provision hasn't been made for a small Tesco Express/Sainsbury's Local type store - see for example St Albans for what's possible

Yes, agreed. Another area where Cambridge North currently has the advantage, with a Co-op in the new office building directly opposite - though that did take years to materialise - and a food van selling burgers and the like (was *two* (!) food vans briefly, but it seems one of them has 'won' and the other has moved elsewhere).

 

[bspahh]

Yes, agreed. Another area where Cambridge North currently has the advantage, with a Co-op in the new office building directly opposite - though that did take years to materialise - and a food van selling burgers and the like (was *two* (!) food vans briefly, but it seems one of them has 'won' and the other has moved elsewhere).

On the plus side, Cambridge South has electric hookups for food vans, so there isn't the drone of a petrol-engined generator outside the station, unlike Cambridge North.

 

[Mag_seven]

Just a gentle reminder that this thread is to discuss the new station at Cambridge South. I have split off some off topic posts about platform arrangements where high speed trains pass to this thread.

Platform arrangements where high speed trains pass.

Moderator note : split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/cambridge-south-new-station-opening.141520/page-58#post-7846393 A 2.5m side platform is ok up to 100 mph. Above that speed the minimum becomes 3m. Seems surprising that 100mph is permitted even for 2.5m platform. Does that 2.5m...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Jimcam]

Royal Papworth hospital has a cafe. There is a Sainsburys Local in Hobsons Square not far from the far side of the park.

There's also the AstraZeneca Hub and a cafe in the main AstraZeneca building, both of which are open to the public (and have very reasonable prices). The Hub has a small shop area as well as food and drink. Plus various food vans that park on the green between Royal Papworth and the main AZ building.

 

[Hadders]

There's also the AstraZeneca Hub and a cafe in the main AstraZeneca building, both of which are open to the public (and have very reasonable prices). The Hub has a small shop area as well as food and drink. Plus various food vans that park on the green between Royal Papworth and the main AZ building.

That’s all good but I’m still surprised there’s no retail provision at the station itself. There are alternative facilities near other stations all over the country but this doesn’t stop facilities being provided at stations.

 

[Magdalia]

That’s all good but I’m still surprised there’s no retail provision at the station itself. There are alternative facilities near other stations all over the country but this doesn’t stop facilities being provided at stations.

The basics of demand and supply are in action. Alternative facilities in close proximity are existing supply and facilities on new stations have to compete with them.

This applies especially at Cambridge South because it is primarily a destination station for the Biomedical Campus, and travellers can get their food and drink at their destination immediately after they arrive, or before they leave for their homeward journey.

And sometimes new supply near a station can lead to reduction in facilities at the station itself. This can be seen at the main Cambridge station, where catering at the station has declined since the shops on the piazza opened.

 

[RUK]

- The station is going to be freezing in winter for staff. The external walls to the station building are effectively open

Apparently Chiltern staff also said that Winslow is exposed and would be freezing in the winter - is this a problem with new station design? Is it a post-COVID thing, to be open for maximum ventilation, but at lower cost than air conditioning an enclosed space?

 

[neill]

Disruption to the wires at 'Cambridge' today - I wonder if we will see any services reversing at Cambridge South.

As for the lack of enclosed waiting areas - one thought I had on the topic is that there are a *lot* of trains and you are unlikely to be waiting for very long.

 

[zwk500]

Disruption to the wires at 'Cambridge' today - I wonder if we will see any services reversing at Cambridge South.

As for the lack of enclosed waiting areas - one thought I had on the topic is that there are a *lot* of trains and you are unlikely to be waiting for very long.

The wires appear to be down around Coldham Lane Jn/Cambridge North area, so I suspect that as many trains as possible will come through to Cambridge (proper) station rather than turning early. Always a chance though, especially if more than 1 thing happens.

 

[neill]

I see the disruption template has not been updated to mention Cambridge South yet:

Incident: Cambridge | National Rail

Major disruption at Cambridge expected until the end of the day. Find details of all current incidents on National Rail Enquiries.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

(Stations not served lists include numerous local stations, but not Cambridge South)

 

[jon0844]

Disruption to the wires at 'Cambridge' today - I wonder if we will see any services reversing at Cambridge South.

As for the lack of enclosed waiting areas - one thought I had on the topic is that there are a *lot* of trains and you are unlikely to be waiting for very long.

I assume the power is off and preventing trains turning around at Cambridge South (it looks like there's a stranded train, 1T11 south of CMS), which would have been useful even if drivers at Cambridge had to get a taxi down to take over inbound services.

It appears all four platforms are bi-directional, but it isn't clear how things go beyond signal 832 onto the line to Liverpool Street unless it runs wrong way to Whittlesford Parkway? Plus, have the relevant controllers come up with clear plans on what to do in such an incident?

 

[zwk500]

It appears all four platforms are bi-directional, but it isn't clear how things go beyond signal 832 onto the line to Liverpool Street unless it runs wrong way to Whittlesford Parkway? Plus, have the relevant controllers come up with clear plans on what to do in such an incident?

As explained before, trains ex-liverpool street will run wrong-road into the Up Platforms from shepreth Branch Jn, and depart right road.

Trains ex-Letchworth will run right road into the down platforms and depart wrong road back to Shepreth branch junction where they will rejoin the normal line to Royston.

 

[Magdalia]

1T11 0715 Kings Lynn-Kings Cross dropped its pantographs when 1T08 0724 Kings Cross-Kings Lynn lost a pantograph almost 3 miles away. It is stood on the up line, with the front near the Nine Wells stream and the rear under the Addenbrookes bridge, and has now been there for 5 hours. It is preventing Liverpool Street line trains from using Cambridge South.

 

[sharpener]

1T11 0715 Kings Lynn-Kings Cross dropped its pantographs when 1T08 0724 Kings Cross-Kings Lynn lost a pantograph almost 3 miles away. It is stood on the up line, with the front near the Nine Wells stream and the rear under the Addenbrookes bridge, and has now been there for 5 hours. It is preventing Liverpool Street line trains from using Cambridge South.

Surely they can isolate the OHLE more locally round 1T08 N of Cambridge so that 1T11 can be powered up again? It's like a blown bulb on one lighting circuit stopping you from running the dishwasher. Or as in 2019 do they need technicians with their special laptops to do a hard reset yet again?

 

[neill]

1T11 0715 Kings Lynn-Kings Cross dropped its pantographs when 1T08 0724 Kings Cross-Kings Lynn lost a pantograph almost 3 miles away. It is stood on the up line, with the front near the Nine Wells stream and the rear under the Addenbrookes bridge, and has now been there for 5 hours. It is preventing Liverpool Street line trains from using Cambridge South.

Presumably that means 1T11 is fouling the points south of Cambridge South.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Presumably that means 1T11 is fouling the points south of Cambridge South.

If that is the case, does that mean four-tracking south of Cambridge South (which I think will be needed for East-West Rail) would have mitigated the impact?

 

[sharpener]

If that is the case, does that mean four-tracking south of Cambridge South (which I think will be needed for East-West Rail) would have mitigated the impact?

Not necessarily bc then they will be paired by destination. Hopefully there will be a complete ladder allowing all sorts of moves though. Ironic that only yesterday we were discussing the access limitations of the new pointwork at Shepreth Brance jctn and now today we need an extra crossover.

ETA and my OH is even now trying to get back from London to Cambridge.

 

[neill]

1T11 is now 5T11 and on the move?

 

[sharpener]

Presumably that means 1T11 is fouling the points south of Cambridge South.

Now released, passing Shepreth as 5T11 as I write.

... where it reversed, now approaching Cambridge South

2C36 northbound at Stevenage, ETA Cambridge 1606,

Looks like the makings of a London-Cambridge service once again.

 

[William3000]

The basics of demand and supply are in action. Alternative facilities in close proximity are existing supply and facilities on new stations have to compete with them.

This applies especially at Cambridge South because it is primarily a destination station for the Biomedical Campus, and travellers can get their food and drink at their destination immediately after they arrive, or before they leave for their homeward journey.

And sometimes new supply near a station can lead to reduction in facilities at the station itself. This can be seen at the main Cambridge station, where catering at the station has declined since the shops on the piazza opened.

And I suspect as passenger numbers rise we will see further decline in retail outlets in Cambridge station as areas like M&S are required for larger circulation areas/gatelines etc.

 

[Lawrence18uk]

And I suspect as passenger numbers rise we will see further decline in retail outlets in Cambridge station as areas like M&S are required for larger circulation areas/gatelines etc.

Shame, hope that doesn't happen it's really useful for last minute purchases

 

[Jimcam]

Now we're back to normality, can someone explain why 1T11 was unable to move?

I read above that it "dropped its pantograph", but is that because the incident with 1T08 caused the power to be off as far south as 1T11 was, or did it drop the panto because of the consequent voltage fluctuation and then find itself unable to raise it again without outside intervention?

We seemed to get to a point, around 1600, where trains were able to run between London and Cambridge, 1T11 having moved out of the way via reversing at Shepreth as described above, but with hindsight, could that point have been reached earlier?