Will the 810 involved in the Bedford crash be repaired or partly replaced?

[810013]

Not sure if this is the correct thread but it is construction related
Do we Think 015 will be repaired or 810034 is built with 015 used for spares?

 

[800001]

Not sure if this is the correct thread but it is construction related
Do we Think 015 will be repaired or 810034 is built with 015 used for spares?

Far far too early to be knowing what they will do.
A full thorough assessment will need to take place, however the damage at the rear does look significant.

 

[Spartacus]

Not sure if this is the correct thread but it is construction related
Do we Think 015 will be repaired or 810034 is built with 015 used for spares?

Probably far too early to speculate at this point, but the LNER unit that was in a collision at Neville Hill was back in service quickly. Obviously 015's collision involves greater forces but solely going off the public images it looks to have stood up well, what looks bad is where it's meant to crumple.

 

[Snow1964]

Not sure if this is the correct thread but it is construction related
Do we Think 015 will be repaired or 810034 is built with 015 used for spares?

Modern crumple zones are designed to absorb energy. To early to say, but with production lines open it might be easier to build new body shell, than try and fix existing one. Parts could be transferred over.

There will be clauses in lease, regarding write off value each year. EMR would have to settle the lease for any vehicles (might be written as whole sets, rather than individual vehicles) that are destroyed during lease term, unless they replaced them.

I don't know what 810 lease actually says if unrepairable

 

[dosxuk]

The issue with crumple zones is that what looks like superficial damage to just the end panels actually is far more serious and results in the whole vehicle being written off. Once key structural members have been taken past their design loads, that's basically it for the vehicle, even if the passenger parts look mostly ok.

What would concern me here with the 810 is not the nose damage, but that the third carriage completely derailed and has made a significant sideways movement. In the case of the LNER incident, all the carriages stayed in line, so the impact forces remained along the strongest axis. With the amount of force demonstrated, I would also have concerns about vehicle twist.

We won't know for a long while, but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the whole set is written off due to damage, despite visually only the rear carriage looking significantly damaged.

 

[Amos390]

I am presuming they’ll take 810015 away by lorry when the initial investigations at Bedford are done , but can this be confirmed? Also, will it return to Etches or go all the way back to Newton Aycliffe?

 

[LowLevel]

I am presuming they’ll take 820015 away by lorry when the initial investigations at Bedford are done , but can this be confirmed? Also, will it return to Etches or go all the way back to Newton Aycliffe?

EMR have recently posted an update here:

Media statement: Bedford train crash – essential travel only as passengers warned to expect disruption for the majority of next week | East Midlands Railway News

Rail passengers planning to travel through Bedford next week are being warned by the rail industry to expect disruption to train services until the end of next week (28 June) and to only travel on this route if their journey is essential.

news.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk

Recovery operation

A complex recovery operation has begun to remove the damaged trains and carriages from the railway before engineers assess any damage and complete necessary repairs. The Overhead Line Equipment – the electrical wires that provide power to the electric trains – must be removed while a temporary access road and concrete foundation is constructed to support the operation of a crane.

Two 110 tonne rail-mounted Kirow Cranes will then lift the trains and carriages from the site before a road-mounted crane moves them onto a low loader – a heavy-duty, specialised trailer designed to carry extremely heavy equipment – to be transported away by road. Following this, engineers will then assess the track and make any repairs before reinstating the overhead lines and completing final safety checks ahead of reopening the railway.

All vehicles are being recovered by road it seems, and I suspect they'll head to wherever the RAIB wants to hold them for now.

 

[800001]

I am presuming they’ll take 820015 away by lorry when the initial investigations at Bedford are done , but can this be confirmed? Also, will it return to Etches or go all the way back to Newton Aycliffe?

810015 and the 360 will most likely go to a secure location of the RAIBs choosing.
Unlikely to go to Etches Park or Merchant Park.

When LNER 800109 from the Neville Hill crash was recovered after a certain period it was taken by road (the damaged cab) to a company called Millenium Site Services at Derby for structural repairs, and only returned to to Aycliffe to be made back to its complete set and undertake some testing before being returned to passenger service.

 

[adc82140]

810015 and the 360 will most likely go to a secure location of the RAIBs choosing.
Unlikely to go to Etches Park or Merchant Park.

Could well end up at the RAIB secure site at Farnborough Airport. Wherever it is, I'm certain that it'll be in the middle of the night with covers on.

 

[800001]

Could well end up at the RAIB secure site at Farnborough Airport. Wherever it is, I'm certain that it'll be in the middle of the night with covers on.

Long Marston would also be a good bet, even though it's Porterbook owned, it's a secure site with plenty of spaces to put the carriages inside a building.

I seem to recall the carriage from the TPe unit that detailed at Heaton depot was sent there for a period of time.

 

[31160]

Long Marston would also be a good bet, even though it's Porterbook owned, it's a secure site with plenty of spaces to put the carriages inside a building.

I seem to recall the carriage from the TPe unit that detailed at Heaton depot was sent there for a period of time.

Was the TPE 802 coach repaired or replaced

 

[800001]

Was the TPE 802 coach repaired or replaced

Repaired.

 

[norbitonflyer]

If 810015 is written off, is the production line still capable of producung a replacement, or has the factory line now irrevocably switched to 820s?

 

[810013]

If 810015 is written off, is the production line still capable of producung a replacement, or has the factory line now irrevocably switched to 820s?

I believe they are still producing 030-033 although i could be wrong on that

 

[M60lad]

Considering how new 810 is will it be repaired and if not what will happen, will EMR get a replacement new train built to replace it?

 

[800001]

Considering how new 810 is will it be repaired and if not what will happen, will EMR get a replacement new train built to replace it?

Far too early to say.
It will need to be fully assessed by Hitachi who will have had no access to the unit, and won't for some time.
Also insurance company will get involved.

 

[Haywain]

Considering how new 810 is will it be repaired and if not what will happen, will EMR get a replacement new train built to replace it?

Doesn't that depend on what damage has been done? And, like a car, a consideration would be whether it is economical to carry out repairs

 

[DJH1971]

mods note - split from this thread

Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

Looks like the new Hitachi AT300's based on the IET platforn for EMR are going to be called the Class 804. These are going to be bi-mode trains and should be capable of running at up to 140mph, even if 125 is all they see in service. We're looking at 33, 5-car long sets, with 23m long coaches...

www.railforums.co.uk

Will Hitachi have to build a replacement unit for the 810 involved at Bedford, or is it likely to get repaired?

 

[43096]

Will Hitachi have to build a replacement unit for the 810 involved at Bedford, or is it likely to get repaired?

No-one knows. Until EMR, Hitachi and Rock Rail have had a good look at it they won't know either. The unit may well be impounded by RAIB currently and access will be limited.

 

[Trainman40083]

Will Hitachi have to build a replacement unit for the 810 involved at Bedford, or is it likely to get repaired?

I'd expect it to get repaired

 

[Russel]

I'd expect it to get repaired

Possibly not the end vehicle that took the brunt of the impact, it looked clearly distorted if you look at the area above the first passenger door, I'd be surprised if that one didn't need replacing.

 

[Amos390]

Possibly not the end vehicle that took the brunt of the impact, it looked clearly distorted if you look at the area above the first passenger door, I'd be surprised if that one didn't need replacing.

Would the majority of it not just be body work though, maybe replace the cab frame with new panels, surely not the need for a whole new driving end to be made?

 

[Russel]

Would the majority of it not just be body work though, maybe replace the cab frame with new panels, surely not the need for a whole new driving end to be made?

If the bodyshell has become distorted then there it will have weakened the structure of it too, I can't see it being worth repairing.

 

[Amos390]

If the bodyshell has become distorted then there it will have weakened the structure of it too, I can't see it being worth repairing.

Surely still cheaper than building a new carriage. Most of the carriage is fine, just the 5 metres or so around the rear cab. Another question, was it Cab 1 or Cab 2 that took the impact, never can remember which end is which with EMR as they change ends all the time (unlike LNER who always have first class facing London I believe)

 

[QSK19]

The 810 production line is presumably running like a slick operation now; so, financial aspects aside, it would probably be easier (and possibly quicker?) to replace rather than repair if there are concerns about the structural integrity.

 

[800001]

The 810 production line is presumably running like a slick operation now; so, financial aspects aside, it would probably be easier (and possibly quicker?) to replace rather than repair if there are concerns about the structural integrity.

All carriages have been welded, and the final couple of carriages are in production shed getting fitted out.
In a kind of morbid way it's actually perfect timing if they do decide that one (or more) carriages need replacing and the production line is still set up assembling the final few EMR carriages

However everything depends on the insurance people and Hitachi who ultimately will decide if repair is possible or wether replacements are needed.

 

[Russel]

The 810 production line is presumably running like a slick operation now; so, financial aspects aside, it would probably be easier (and possibly quicker?) to replace rather than repair if there are concerns about the structural integrity.

That's my thoughts on it, they could possibly reuse some undamaged components from the original vehicle, seats for example.

 

[Amos390]

The other question is if it were to be repaired, where would that be done. Could it be done in Etches (Like how 810006 had its nose cone replaced or how a 222 had its whole front cab pan swapped out) or would it be a job for the factory. At that point then you can consider is it easier to repair or rebuild, if it can be done at Etches probably repair, if it’s got to go back to the factory anyways, why bother and just rebuild it.

 

[QSK19]

All carriages have been welded, and the final couple of carriages are in production shed getting fitted out.
In a kind of morbid way it's actually perfect timing if they do decide that one (or more) carriages need replacing and the production line is still set up assembling the final few EMR carriages

However everything depends on the insurance people and Hitachi who ultimately will decide if repair is possible or wether replacements are needed.

Talking of what remains of the 810 production line, I presume another set would need constructing if 002 still can’t be found?

Clearly the missing Danish IC4 set that ended up in Libya needs replacing by newer stock!

 

[800001]

Talking of what remains of the 810 production line, I presume another set would need constructing if 002 still can’t be found?

Clearly the missing Danish IC4 set that ended up in Libya needs replacing by newer stock!

My source within the factory stated that 810002 was discovered to have very bad welds on several carriages and they were indeed building replied it.

How true that is I do not know.

But no one will publicly say where the original 002 is, whether Italy or UK.